Summer Transfer Window

[markjazzbassist]

ndidi kante casemiro matic dier bakayoko nzonzi witsel herrera keita xhaka moutinho

[pete0]

17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

ndidi kante casemiro matic dier bakayoko nzonzi witsel herrera keita xhaka moutinho

Most of these players play DM and none of them are gung ho in their all out pressing. 

Matic, Nzonzi, Dier, Bakayoko, Casemiro and up until last year Kante are all DMs. 

Witsel is more similar to Gomes. 

Keita is a powerful centre mid. 

Xhaka sits and has great passing range. 

Moutinho is class he's the opposite of Gana. He plays with his brain and doesn't have the legs to run around frantically. 

Herrera is class as well, brilliant reader of the game. He's the player I wanted and the player who will be keeping Gana out of the PSG team. He's got good energy but he's not a headless chicken. Defensively he's more like James McCarthy pre-injury. 

 

[Finn balor]

We are desperately short in depth and quality at right back, centre back if gana goes we need a replacement obviously. We need a top quality wide man that will give Charley and Bernie competition at the least and two strikers in my mind. I think we lack serious pace on the counter. Bernie, Charlie, gilfi, DCl, Tosun. All averaged pace. We need a player that when possesion changes the opposition shit themselves. You can see when city, Liverpool break you know pretty much the ball will end up in the back of the net. I know they have the best players but there’s no reason why we can’t do it. 

[Sibdane]

2 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

We are desperately short in depth and quality at right back, centre back if gana goes we need a replacement obviously. We need a top quality wide man that will give Charley and Bernie competition at the least and two strikers in my mind. I think we lack serious pace on the counter. Bernie, Charlie, gilfi, DCl, Tosun. All averaged pace. We need a player that when possesion changes the opposition shit themselves. You can see when city, Liverpool break you know pretty much the ball will end up in the back of the net. I know they have the best players but there’s no reason why we can’t do it. 

Always considered Bernard, Richarlison, and especially DCL, as having decent pace. Definitely not in the same bracket as Gylfi and Tosun.

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I think we should probably sell McCarthy. He showed some tenacity against Wigan when he came on, but he's definitely looking sluggish. I think Coleman suggested during the last Ireland friendlies that he was ready to move on from Everton.

Also, add in that Delph, Morgan, & McCarthy are 29/30, not that that's too old, but I'd like to bring in someone younger who can start learning/blending into the squad.

I'd agree with all of that.

2 hours ago, Matt said:

How many of them are energetic ball winners though? McCarthy once was but now?

Who says we need one?

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I'd agree with all of that.

Who says we need one?

The current meta of high press defence? Alternatively, we could try playing catch up on the tactical side, as we did with  tiki shiti 

[Finn balor]

13 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

Always considered Bernard, Richarlison, and especially DCL, as having decent pace. Definitely not in the same bracket as Gylfi and Tosun.

I’m not saying they are all the same, they have decent pace but not rapid pace. I watched robinson the lad we sold to Wigan last night and players had a yard on him and they just give up as they knew they weren’t going to beat him for pace. Walcott included. 

[Bailey]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

The current meta of high press defence? Alternatively, we could try playing catch up on the tactical side, as we did with  tiki shiti 

So who plays that way for City and Liverpool (presumably the two you would agree are the most high press)?

[Finn balor]

Most teams have one, some have stronger attributes than others. What u got from gana pressing and tackling you maybe lost in other areas, goals defence splitting passes etc. 

[Bailey]

30 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Most of these players play DM and none of them are gung ho in their all out pressing. 

Matic, Nzonzi, Dier, Bakayoko, Casemiro and up until last year Kante are all DMs. 

Witsel is more similar to Gomes. 

Keita is a powerful centre mid. 

Xhaka sits and has great passing range. 

Moutinho is class he's the opposite of Gana. He plays with his brain and doesn't have the legs to run around frantically. 

Herrera is class as well, brilliant reader of the game. He's the player I wanted and the player who will be keeping Gana out of the PSG team. He's got good energy but he's not a headless chicken. Defensively he's more like James McCarthy pre-injury. 

 

Ndidi is definitely the closest that I can think of. How many people would want him on here at £25-30mil?

[Finn balor]

1 minute ago, Bailey said:

So who plays that way for City and Liverpool (presumably the two you would agree are the most high press)?

I think they are the Exception. They hunt in packs. 

[Finn balor]

Just now, Bailey said:

Ndidi is definitely the closest that I can think of. How many people would want him on here at £25-30mil?

I’ve posted that on another topic. I think he’d be going for a lot more than what we sold gana for. He’s a good player 

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

So who plays that way for City and Liverpool (presumably the two you would agree are the most high press)?

 

1 minute ago, Finn balor said:

I think they are the Exception. They hunt in packs. 

But even the pack needs an alpha

[Bailey]

4 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

I think they are the Exception. They hunt in packs. 

All high press teams hunt in packs otherwise you can play through them easily.

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

But even the pack needs an alpha

Who is the alpha at City / Liverpool then?

[Finn balor]

The obvious defensive minded player for city is Fernandinho. I don’t watch enough of the shite to know

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

The obvious defensive minded player for city is Fernandinho. I don’t watch enough of the shite to know

Neither do I but Fabinho maybe?

[pete0]

31 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Ndidi is definitely the closest that I can think of. How many people would want him on here at £25-30mil?

I've not watched him close enough although when I've watched Leicester he's not stood out for anything which is a good sign given his position. Tielemans and Madison shone when I did though and I guess Ndidi must have been helping them.! 

[Shukes]

52 minutes ago, Bailey said:

So who plays that way for City and Liverpool (presumably the two you would agree are the most high press)?

Every player on their team do. I hate them for it, but damn it’s effective. 

[Ghoat]

For me, what it boils down to is what does Silva ideally want from his MF, role-wise?  Davies, Gana, Morgan, Delph and Gomes are very different from each other. Due to that, how they are paired very much dictates what we do as a whole, IMO.

Gomes appears good-but-not-great deep, protecting the back four, and good-but-not-great in the final third. He is great in possession and on the ball, but where is he truly "best"? 

Delph maybe best in defense, good-but-not-great one ball and in final third?

Davies - who the hell knows, he has show some ability in all, but not played a role consistently to settle in. But damn he looked good yesterday further up being creative.

Morgan and McCarthy (in the unlikely event he stays) are traditional 6/DM's.

I think Gana is an exceptional player - he covers a shitton of space and flies to ball with great effect all over the pitch, but is limited in what he can do in the final third. You almost have to have deep-lying cover for him as he is chasing balls all over. And doing that means one less player offensive-minded player in transition or attack. Forcing Gana to stay deep would allow for a more offensive player, but it also limits what Gana is good at - roaming the pitch attacking the ball. 

 

ASSUMING we lose him, I can't help but think we see a change in tactics in the middle, not replacing him with a Gana 2.0. As exceptional as I think Gana is, he's a double-edged sword that limits MF tactics. Which goes back to "what does Silva really want in the MF?"  Between Gomes/Delph/Davies/Incoming-player who is best suited to play as an 8, or a 6, and paired with whom?

As our roster stands today, and from last year,  we offer no real threat on the counter-attack. DCL, Bernard and Richy all have good pace, but Theo is the only player with dangerous pace. Siggy for all his quality is just slow for a 10. If he stays up the pitch to compensate, he is too isolated in transition by our deeper MF. If he tracks back to compensate, the wings and especially DCL are isolated in transition. No matter how good they are individually, it seems to me the combination of Siggy and Gana precludes us from being dangerous or even effective in transition. And clearly we struggled with creativity last year to break teams down when they put 9-10 behind the ball.

At the risk of joining "Team-peteO," I'd be fine with losing Gana (for good money). Gana is very effective pressing himself, but I feel his style limits other's ability to press and counter and leaves Siggy in a positional catch-22. Does the permanent signing of Gomes and addition of Delph indicate a tactical preference of the MF Silva wants perhaps?

Or perhaps I'm just a silly Yank, and should leave the tactical discussion of "soccer" to the adults  

[pete0]

@Ghoat welcome to the club, don't forget @Palfy or he'll not teach you the secret hand shake. 

[Ghoat]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

@Ghoat welcome to the club, don't forget @Palfy or he'll not teach you the secret hand shake. 

I'd never get it correct left-handed. I'm assuming since y'all drive on the wrong side of the road, y'all shake with the wrong hand as well....

[Bailey]

37 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

The obvious defensive minded player for city is Fernandinho. I don’t watch enough of the shite to know

The most aggressive pressers (Alpha) play higher up the pitch so it will be your KDB's and Silva's (both) who start the press and then Fernandinho and the rest follow their lead. The more attacking players make the same number of attempted tackles as the the more defensive ones. Same with Eriksen at Spurs. Liverpool are a little more rotational but the prospect is the same. 

The point I am taking an age to make is that most decent teams dont have 1 guy running around tackling everything they can catch. Instead they are spread around the team more evenly.

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

I'd never get it correct left-handed. I'm assuming since y'all drive on the wrong side of the road, y'all shake with the wrong hand as well....

You're correct. 

Fist bump USA style instead  

[Palfy]

45 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

Or perhaps I'm just a silly Yank, and should leave the tactical discussion of "soccer" to the adults  

I think what you said tactically made a lot of sense. 

You are definitely a big boy now

[Shukes]

Ghoat that’s an excellent post.

I think you’ve said in that post what we’ve pretty much all been saying all along. You should put an application in for coaching

[Finn balor]

46 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

For me, what it boils down to is what does Silva ideally want from his MF, role-wise?  Davies, Gana, Morgan, Delph and Gomes are very different from each other. Due to that, how they are paired very much dictates what we do as a whole, IMO.

Gomes appears good-but-not-great deep, protecting the back four, and good-but-not-great in the final third. He is great in possession and on the ball, but where is he truly "best"? 

Delph maybe best in defense, good-but-not-great one ball and in final third?

Davies - who the hell knows, he has show some ability in all, but not played a role consistently to settle in. But damn he looked good yesterday further up being creative.

Morgan and McCarthy (in the unlikely event he stays) are traditional 6/DM's.

I think Gana is an exceptional player - he covers a shitton of space and flies to ball with great effect all over the pitch, but is limited in what he can do in the final third. You almost have to have deep-lying cover for him as he is chasing balls all over. And doing that means one less player offensive-minded player in transition or attack. Forcing Gana to stay deep would allow for a more offensive player, but it also limits what Gana is good at - roaming the pitch attacking the ball. 

 

ASSUMING we lose him, I can't help but think we see a change in tactics in the middle, not replacing him with a Gana 2.0. As exceptional as I think Gana is, he's a double-edged sword that limits MF tactics. Which goes back to "what does Silva really want in the MF?"  Between Gomes/Delph/Davies/Incoming-player who is best suited to play as an 8, or a 6, and paired with whom?

As our roster stands today, and from last year,  we offer no real threat on the counter-attack. DCL, Bernard and Richy all have good pace, but Theo is the only player with dangerous pace. Siggy for all his quality is just slow for a 10. If he stays up the pitch to compensate, he is too isolated in transition by our deeper MF. If he tracks back to compensate, the wings and especially DCL are isolated in transition. No matter how good they are individually, it seems to me the combination of Siggy and Gana precludes us from being dangerous or even effective in transition. And clearly we struggled with creativity last year to break teams down when they put 9-10 behind the ball.

At the risk of joining "Team-peteO," I'd be fine with losing Gana (for good money). Gana is very effective pressing himself, but I feel his style limits other's ability to press and counter and leaves Siggy in a positional catch-22. Does the permanent signing of Gomes and addition of Delph indicate a tactical preference of the MF Silva wants perhaps?

Or perhaps I'm just a silly Yank, and should leave the tactical discussion of "soccer" to the adults  

When u post pal u fucking post. You need to lose that h out of your name. You carry on like that and you will be the GOAT 

[Finn balor]

Not posting for a while now 

[Palfy]

Just now, Finn balor said:

Not posting for a while now 

What you on about Willis 

[Finn balor]

Different strokes for different folks

[MikeO]

39 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

When u post pal u fucking post. You need to lose that h out of your name. You carry on like that and you will be the GOAT 

He can't do that because it stands for "horseshit".