Summer Transfer Window

[nogs]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Looking at Klopp his first season focused on fitness, purely getting the team pressing. He then tuned his counter attack. I don't see signs of Silva tuning the tactics, rather he's blaming the lack of signings at the minute and last season he used to babble after games rather than take responsibility. 

Klopp also bought Mane, Matip and Wijnaldum in his first summer transfer window. In his second, he bought Salah, Robertson and Oxlade-Chamberlain, followed by Van Dijk the January after. Klopp has done what most managers do at a club, impose a preferred playing style partly through acquiring players suited to it. Silva is trying to do the same, and if he says he needs five more players to improve on what we did last season, I see no reason not to accept that - especially as it is obvious to everyone that he inherited a horribly imbalanced yet bloated squad which, when you remove the dead wood, is threadbare on quality in key areas. 

[pete0]

11 minutes ago, nogs said:

Klopp also bought Mane, Matip and Wijnaldum in his first summer transfer window. In his second, he bought Salah, Robertson and Oxlade-Chamberlain, followed by Van Dijk the January after. Klopp has done what most managers do at a club, impose a preferred playing style partly through acquiring players suited to it. Silva is trying to do the same, and if he says he needs five more players to improve on what we did last season, I see no reason not to accept that - especially as it is obvious to everyone that he inherited a horribly imbalanced yet bloated squad which, when you remove the dead wood, is threadbare on quality in key areas. 

Silva got Digne, Bernard, Richarlison, Gomes, Zuoma (and Mina). Walcott hadn't long joined either. With Delph coming in Silva has had his fair share of players. Find it quite rude of him to moan about the lack of signings when he's already had his fill last season and what an amazing job Brands did. Club is apparently trying to get big deals done, Silva should focus on his side and get the players fit and the football right. 

[Bailey]

Nogs point is key about the squad. If you take into account the first team players only you have:

GK - Pickford, Lossl, Stek (sorted)

RB - Coleman, Holgate

LB - Digne, Baines

CB - Keane, Mina

CM - Gomes, Delph, Schneiderlin, McCarthy, Gueye

AM - Siggy, Davies

LW - Bernard

RW - Richarlison, Walcott

CF - DCL, Tosun, Niasse

I appreciate that you could play Holgate at CB but I only just about trust him to do a job at RB. Davies could play deeper, but his best position is floating around further upfield. Gueye looks likely to go and it remains to be seen whether Baines can stay fit enough to be a able deputy to Digne. Throw in that we dont have a striker that has proven he can score more than 10 goals a season (without being shite in every other department - Niasse) then the squad is in a very strange and transitional period.

Of the young lads, the only ones I think look capable of playing any part this season are Gibson, Broadhead and Adeniran, however all 3 will benefit more from a loan and playing week in week out. They certainly wouldnt be ready to come in and play every week without making mistakes and hampering the team.

In my opinion we need at least 1 winger, 1 proper striker and 2 centre backs this season. In the future we need another 10 (as I dont see Davies being quite good enough to hold that position down on his own at the moment), a both full backs. We will also need a winger to replace Walcott as well over the next couple of seasons as well as a 3rd striker.

I am gutted that it doesnt look like we can get Zouma, he could have covered CB and RB. Im not sure there are many other CBs around the league that would fit the bill. I am still a fan of Lascelles, but I am not sure how he would fit in with our style of play. He could tank under Bruce with Rafa's tactics making him look better than he is. I think Christensen is a decent CB and would fit in. I still like Ake too and if anything Bournemouth's way of playing makes him look worse. That is probably the lot though.

Staying with Bournemouth I would also look at King who can score and create, decent pace, strong with good technique, and Fraser who works hard, creates and can finish (aka Scottish Bernard with a goal in him). At Chelsea, I do wonder whether it would be worth trying to loan Abraham for a season if there were no other options. I think he would score a few in a half decent team and he 'might' do more than Tosun and Niasse would. I wouldnt be confident about it though.

Zaha would be an excellent signing for the right money. Reports are that we have put an offer in around the £50mil mark which I think is very reasonable and it could be similar to last summer where we wait and see if Palace crumble at the prospect of the player wanting away.

At Watford cases could be made for both Doucoure and Gray. I like the former but not sure he would be available but I wouldnt be convinced the latter would be much of an upgrade for the price, but he would be better than Tosun. West Ham have a few attacking players on the books now, so you could look at Lanzini but again would he be available and is he the same player having been on and off the treatment table a lot recently.

That is just an overview of the players in England but the pool is really shallow so you either have to put up a lot of money like we are with Zaha or take a chance of transforming a player like we are trying to with Delph. I just hope there are lots more available players abroad!

 

[nogs]

48 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Silva got Digne, Bernard, Richarlison, Gomes, Zuoma (and Mina). Walcott hadn't long joined either. With Delph coming in Silva has had his fair share of players. Find it quite rude of him to moan about the lack of signings when he's already had his fill last season and what an amazing job Brands did. Club is apparently trying to get big deals done, Silva should focus on his side and get the players fit and the football right. 

Zouma is irrelevant as he is no longer at the club, Walcott even more irrelevant as he was brought in by the previous administration and has hardly suggested in 18 months he's of the quality we need to improve. Yeah we've brought in 6 new first team players since Silva arrived. But what's wrong with him saying we need more? Hardly being rude imo, just being ambitious. And recognising the weaknesses in the squad Bailey does an excellent job of detailing. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Brands can deliver for Silva - but it could be uncomfortable 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/marcel-brands-can-deliver-marco-16659070#ICID=ios_EchoNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Other

[Palfy]

Honestly does anyone see any improvement on the team from last season, for me with less than 2 weeks to go I see know improvement at all quite the reverse to be honest. 

So as the article Dunc posted said Brands said he didn’t want to be in this position again but hey ho here we are scrambling around again in fucking panic management mode, what happened to last seasons comments of we have highlighted our targets and we want to get our business done early without the repeat of last summer, when they had very little time to work together to get the players they agreed on, so no excuse this time to be back in the same position again. 

Now it could be Moshiri isn’t playing ball or Brands is dragging the deals out, but what ever is happening Silva is showing the frustration that this isn’t going how he was led to expect it would. 

[StevO]

It could be that our transfer targets weren’t interested or the selling clubs prices us out. There could be many many more reasons, but we won’t know, and we shouldn’t. 

We’ll have to see what Brands can pull off in the next week or so. 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

It could be that our transfer targets weren’t interested or the selling clubs prices us out. There could be many many more reasons, but we won’t know, and we shouldn’t. 

We’ll have to see what Brands can pull off in the next week or so. 

Normally when you highlight your targets you have had some tentative enquires with the players agent, you do your home work first yet bar Gomes who was nailed on we haven’t secured any more , not good is it really to be fair, unless you believe Delph and Lossl were on that list. 

[Shukes]

Not quite panick mode for me yet. For all we know we could be deep in contract negotiations with several players by now... and honestly, I’m guessing we are.

Usually we have a few delegations going out and sorting things out, after we have targeted and spoken initially to agents etc. This year is probably the same.

[StevO]

39 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Normally when you highlight your targets you have had some tentative enquires with the players agent, you do your home work first yet bar Gomes who was nailed on we haven’t secured any more , not good is it really to be fair, unless you believe Delph and Lossl were on that list. 

They will have done their homework, but things change. You never applied for a job and then not taken it when getting offered because things have changed? We’re dealing with very young lads here, not everything is a constant.

Selling club might offer a better contract, player might have since been contacted by a bigger club, there are so many things that can happen that change things.

I’m not trying to defend the club or anything here, but these are just the most obvious things that happen on a daily basis in football. 

I honestly believe Delph and Lossl were on the list. Both will have known they were available and the club would have known too. If they bought players they didn’t have an interest in, they shouldn’t be in the job. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Honestly does anyone see any improvement on the team from last season, for me with less than 2 weeks to go I see know improvement at all quite the reverse to be honest. 

So as the article Dunc posted said Brands said he didn’t want to be in this position again but hey ho here we are scrambling around again in fucking panic management mode, what happened to last seasons comments of we have highlighted our targets and we want to get our business done early without the repeat of last summer, when they had very little time to work together to get the players they agreed on, so no excuse this time to be back in the same position again. 

Now it could be Moshiri isn’t playing ball or Brands is dragging the deals out, but what ever is happening Silva is showing the frustration that this isn’t going how he was led to expect it would. 

I think it’s just simple maths, we needed to shift some of the deadwood before we could increase an already bloated wage bill

It’s going to take years to clear up the mess Walsh left behind

[pete0]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

Zouma is irrelevant as he is no longer at the club, Walcott even more irrelevant as he was brought in by the previous administration and has hardly suggested in 18 months he's of the quality we need to improve. Yeah we've brought in 6 new first team players since Silva arrived. But what's wrong with him saying we need more? Hardly being rude imo, just being ambitious. And recognising the weaknesses in the squad Bailey does an excellent job of detailing. 

One player. There's still 5 first team players, 6 with Delph. Not many clubs have that big of a change over in 2 seasons. Silva is deflecting his poor preseason on the man who makes his job easier. If results don't go our way he'll not get any leeway this season even if we don't make any further signings. 

He's not taking ownership of poor performances. Silva is constantly blaming everyone but himself. He's not Everton. 

[Wiggytop]

37 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I think it’s just simple maths, we needed to shift some of the deadwood before we could increase an already bloated wage bill

It’s going to take years to clear up the mess Walsh left behind

Spot on we still have, Niasse, Bolassie, Miralless, Besic, Sandro to name 5 to sell, not all Walshes signings but they are players who are not up to the level we're aiming for, you can't have that many on your books who aren't good enough and continue to buy without moving at least some of them off the books permantly.

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Spot on we still have, Niasse, Bolassie, Miralless, Besic, Sandro to name 5 to sell, not all Walshes signings but they are players who are not up to the level we're aiming for, you can't have that many on your books who aren't good enough and continue to buy without moving at least some of them off the books permantly.

That’s strange there was more than them on the books that weren’t part of the team  when we bought Richarlison Digne Mina and Bernard

[StevO]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

He's not Everton. 

Give it a rest mate. Take a day off, it’s Sunday.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

Give it a rest mate. Take a day off, it’s Sunday.

He's not. Said in another thread about Everton being a culture. Silva has a never to blame attitude. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

He's not. Said in another thread about Everton being a culture. Silva has a never to blame attitude. 

Tell me about Everton culture please Pete. I’ve missed that in the last 35 years. 

[pete0]

36 minutes ago, StevO said:

Tell me about Everton culture please Pete. I’ve missed that in the last 35 years. 

Usually have more integrity than the average fan, but some slip through the cracks. 

[StevO]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Usually have more integrity than the average fan, but some slip through the cracks. 

I’m sure that’s more reputation that culture. But true, some do slip though the cracks. Some don’t have any integrity at all, some start fights and some even get racist. Not sure what fan integrity has to do with Marco not being Everton though. 

[pete0]

12 minutes ago, StevO said:

I’m sure that’s more reputation that culture. But true, some do slip though the cracks. Some don’t have any integrity at all, some start fights and some even get racist. Not sure what fan integrity has to do with Marco not being Everton though. 

He's not taking responsibility, he's looking for excuses and passing blame onto a man that he should be giving more time and respect to considering how good a job he done last year. The club were close to sacking him last year and rather than work on himself he's already looking for an out blaming the clubs lack of signings. 

[nogs]

14 hours ago, pete0 said:

One player. There's still 5 first team players, 6 with Delph. Not many clubs have that big of a change over in 2 seasons. Silva is deflecting his poor preseason on the man who makes his job easier. If results don't go our way he'll not get any leeway this season even if we don't make any further signings. 

He's not taking ownership of poor performances. Silva is constantly blaming everyone but himself. He's not Everton. 

Really? Not many clubs average 3 new players a season? 

Look, you've made your views on Silva pretty clear, and will no doubt spend the rest of this season ramming those opinions down people's throats like you do with Gana. But it's the same pattern - you go completely OTT. Where's this insult to Brands you've imagined? For all you know Brands is just as frustrated at the hold up in getting identified targets through the door and 100% agrees with what Silva said. You're making up reasons to criticise an individual you've decided you don't like. Which really is just deflecting from the bigger picture of the situation the club finds itself in. The identity of the manager does not resolve the total mess we were in 14 months ago when Silva and Brands arrived. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Really? Not many clubs average 3 new players a season? 

Look, you've made your views on Silva pretty clear, and will no doubt spend the rest of this season ramming those opinions down people's throats like you do with Gana. But it's the same pattern - you go completely OTT. Where's this insult to Brands you've imagined? For all you know Brands is just as frustrated at the hold up in getting identified targets through the door and 100% agrees with what Silva said. You're making up reasons to criticise an individual you've decided you don't like. Which really is just deflecting from the bigger picture of the situation the club finds itself in. The identity of the manager does not resolve the total mess we were in 14 months ago when Silva and Brands arrived. 

Not first team players better than what they've already got. Usually one or two and then the rest are replacing players they've lost or squad/kids. 

From the teams above us new players to get over 1800 minutes, less than that I'd consider them squad players. 

City: Bernardo. Liverpool: Alisson, Fabinho. Spurs: 0. Chelsea: Kepa, Jorginho. Man U: 0. Arsenal: Leno, Sokratis, Torreira, Guendouzi. Burnley: 0.

Arsenal aside the teams above us didn't change/improve their starting eleven that much. 

Back on Silva, he's deflecting the poor preseason on the lack of new signings and saying he wants five more players in. 

If the bloke needs five more players to do his job then he isn't a good coach. Work with what you've got and improve them. If the football doesn't work then find something that does. Don't blame the for not giving you a whole new starting eleven in two summers. 

[Matt]

Oh, Pete

prettu sure that we’ve always been after 3-5 players anyway. Most clubs will do the same. Doesn’t mean the managers are poor  

[pete0]

26 minutes ago, Matt said:

Oh, Pete

prettu sure that we’ve always been after 3-5 players anyway. Most clubs will do the same. Doesn’t mean the managers are poor  

Being after is fine, my issue is the manager deflecting away from his poor preseason and putting the issues down to lack of transfers. I wouldn't want to work with a manager like him. 

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Being after is fine, my issue is the manager deflecting away from his poor preseason and putting the issues down to lack of transfers. I wouldn't want to work with a manager like him. 

Every manager does that. All of them.

[StevO]

I don’t think many managers are bothered about a poor pre season. 

Liverpool have lost loads of games, but there’s a fucking massive trophy in the cabinet. When the real matches start, that’s when we can judge them. 

[Gwlad]

I'm not going to blame lack of signings but am massively disappointed with our pre-season, expected some decent results. I mean a goalless draw against Wigan?

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

I'm not going to blame lack of signings but am massively disappointed with our pre-season, expected some decent results. I mean a goalless draw against Wigan?

I’m not really bothered, it was always going to be about getting people fit. We won’t see any of the kids near the first team, but it’s given them a taste of something to keep working towards. I think the preseason should be seen as no more than a fitness and team building event. 

[nogs]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Not first team players better than what they've already got. Usually one or two and then the rest are replacing players they've lost or squad/kids. 

From the teams above us new players to get over 1800 minutes, less than that I'd consider them squad players. 

City: Bernardo. Liverpool: Alisson, Fabinho. Spurs: 0. Chelsea: Kepa, Jorginho. Man U: 0. Arsenal: Leno, Sokratis, Torreira, Guendouzi. Burnley: 0.

Arsenal aside the teams above us didn't change/improve their starting eleven that much. 

What period are you talking about now? Bernard Silva arrived at City the same season as Kyle Walker, Ederson, Mendy and Laporte - a pretty major overhaul which ended up in them dominating the league. That same season Liverpool signed Salah, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain and then Van Dijk in the January. Allison, Fabinho and Keita came a year later. 

Or should double Premier league winner Guardiola and CL winner Klopp have just got on with what they had? Its a pretty simple concept, if you want to improve you need better players. Or at least have a squad good enough to give you quality cover in all areas. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

I don’t think many managers are bothered about a poor pre season. 

Liverpool have lost loads of games, but there’s a fucking massive trophy in the cabinet. When the real matches start, that’s when we can judge them. 

I'm not arsed about results in preseason. I'm arsed Silva isn't taking responsibility. 

12 minutes ago, nogs said:

What period are you talking about now? Bernard Silva arrived at City the same season as Kyle Walker, Ederson, Mendy and Laporte - a pretty major overhaul which ended up in them dominating the league. That same season Liverpool signed Salah, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain and then Van Dijk in the January. Allison, Fabinho and Keita came a year later. 

Or should double Premier league winner Guardiola and CL winner Klopp have just got on with what they had? Its a pretty simple concept, if you want to improve you need better players. Or at least have a squad good enough to give you quality cover in all areas. 

I just went off last year. Didn't realise he'd been there for two. So city had 0 new starters then last year, you've strengthened my point if anything.