Ellis Simms

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

We’ve missed on like 5 strikers in a row. I imagine that getting the right guy is more important then expediency. Again though, we would have assumed that DCL could stay healthy until we brought in some help. Not unreasonable as it’s only likely to be a couple games before that happens. And for what it’s worth we do have Rondon. Just a worse case scenario thing.

I agree with others that longterm Simms needs to have a high level loan and being on our bench isn’t the best thing for him or us. A good loan and he will be in the mix for us next year 

Okay you obviously are not grasping what I am saying so let’s leave it there. 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, StevO said:

Miserable cunt

You know me so well 

[SpartyBlue]

14 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Okay you obviously are not grasping what I am saying so let’s leave it there. 

My issue isn’t comprehension. Your point is clear. I just disagree we should have kept Simms because maybe DCL slips getting out of the shower or something before we bring another striker in. A decent little loan is Scotland doesn’t make Simms ready for our first team. I expect if Frank thought he was ready for a legitimate role he would not have left, particularly given our financial situation. Best for Simms and best for us long term to see if he sinks or swims in the Championship. 

[Palfy]

30 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

My issue isn’t comprehension. Your point is clear. I just disagree we should have kept Simms because maybe DCL slips getting out of the shower or something before we bring another striker in. A decent little loan is Scotland doesn’t make Simms ready for our first team. I expect if Frank thought he was ready for a legitimate role he would not have left, particularly given our financial situation. Best for Simms and best for us long term to see if he sinks or swims in the Championship. 

You still don’t get the point as I have said numerous times a squad needs 3 forwards, when we sold Richarlison that left us with 2, as a squad we shouldn’t have let Simms go out on loan until we had secured that other striker for obvious reasons, well I say obvious but clearly not, in my view Simms as already proved himself at other clubs that he is goal scorer and good enough to be our number 3 or 2 over Rondon, again first game of the season in the championship gets 2 goals, whilst Everton create moments and opportunities but don’t possess a forward with a natural instinct and finish to take the opportunities presented. You go on about what’s best for Simms and completely disregard what’s best for Everton, we needed him here until the replacement for Richarlison was in the team then he could have gone out on his loan if that was what they felt was required. But nothing to do with DCL injury or Rondon’s suspension and all to do with making sure where possible the squad as the required amount of back up for all positions, which they still had after the Richarlison sale until they shipped Simms out on loan, and in doing so we ended up with Gordon playing the central forward which he clearly couldn’t do, then Dele who managed to be even worse while Simms bangs 2 in for Sunderland. 

[SpartyBlue]

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

You still don’t get the point as I have said numerous times a squad needs 3 forwards, when we sold Richarlison that left us with 2, as a squad we shouldn’t have let Simms go out on loan until we had secured that other striker for obvious reasons, well I say obvious but clearly not, in my view Simms as already proved himself at other clubs that he is goal scorer and good enough to be our number 3 or 2 over Rondon, again first game of the season in the championship gets 2 goals, whilst Everton create moments and opportunities but don’t possess a forward with a natural instinct and finish to take the opportunities presented. You go on about what’s best for Simms and completely disregard what’s best for Everton, we needed him here until the replacement for Richarlison was in the team then he could have gone out on his loan if that was what they felt was required. But nothing to do with DCL injury or Rondon’s suspension and all to do with making sure where possible the squad as the required amount of back up for all positions, which they still had after the Richarlison sale until they shipped Simms out on loan, and in doing so we ended up with Gordon playing the central forward which he clearly couldn’t do, then Dele who managed to be even worse while Simms bangs 2 in for Sunderland. 

Your point is not shrouded in mystery. I get you think Simms should have stayed and is better than Rondon. Frank seems to disagree. Rafa certainly did as well. They see him far more than you or I. Great that he is off to a nice start at Sunderland but no football manager or logical person is going to make determinations based off 1 game, if that were even an option right now. I agree we need 3 forwards. DCL, Rondon (for the moment), and whoever we bring in.
 

A well run football club evaluates things in the long term. Clearly we think that a high level loan is better for Simms and for us and was worth the risk of an out nowhere injury to DCL before the season begins. Yes, it would have been great to have a quality striker in beforehand but that’s not an easy task. How many quality options are there who would come to Everton to backup DCL that we can afford? I don’t know the answer and neither do you. We’ve missed on Kone, Sandro, Niasse, Tosun, King, Kean, and seemingly Rondon in recent years.  It is unsurprising to me that the club would take its time and try to find someone who might actually contribute. If that costs us depth at a position where our starter was perfectly healthy when Simms left then fine. 
 

Do you honestly think that if Simms was ready for this level he would have been allowed to go while we spend money on a backup? Frank just sees him levels above Rondon in training and says “Nah”? He’s got about 30 appearances above the youth levels in his career across a couple of different loans. His one appearance for our senior team he was anonymous. Maybe he gets there, We all hope he does but I’m going to defer to all our managers over the last couple years who seem to agree that he’s not at that point yet. 

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

Your point is not shrouded in mystery. I get you think Simms should have stayed and is better than Rondon. Frank seems to disagree. Rafa certainly did as well. They see him far more than you or I. Great that he is off to a nice start at Sunderland but no football manager or logical person is going to make determinations based off 1 game, if that were even an option right now. I agree we need 3 forwards. DCL, Rondon (for the moment), and whoever we bring in.
 

A well run football club evaluates things in the long term. Clearly we think that a high level loan is better for Simms and for us and was worth the risk of an out nowhere injury to DCL before the season begins. Yes, it would have been great to have a quality striker in beforehand but that’s not an easy task. How many quality options are there who would come to Everton to backup DCL that we can afford? I don’t know the answer and neither do you. We’ve missed on Kone, Sandro, Niasse, Tosun, King, Kean, and seemingly Rondon in recent years.  It is unsurprising to me that the club would take its time and try to find someone who might actually contribute. If that costs us depth at a position where our starter was perfectly healthy when Simms left then fine. 
 

Do you honestly think that if Simms was ready for this level he would have been allowed to go while we spend money on a backup? Frank just sees him levels above Rondon in training and says “Nah”? He’s got about 30 appearances above the youth levels in his career across a couple of different loans. His one appearance for our senior team he was anonymous. Maybe he gets there, We all hope he does but I’m going to defer to all our managers over the last couple years who seem to agree that he’s not at that point yet. 

Simms should have stayed till the back up was in and not because he’s better than Rondon, and he proved himself worthy of being a decent striker at Hearts with his goals long before the brace for Sunderland they just further confirmed the mistake of letting him leave to early, and don’t give me the bullshit about the SPL being a shit league, look at our history of players we have plucked from the Scottish league who have done well in our team. I’m not interested in whether Frank disagrees with me or not I have an opinion and unlike yours it’s not based on what Frank always says, you may not like this but he can make poor decisions when it comes to players, just look at Werner he took to Chelsea and a couple of others, paid a fortune and he was poor, so it can definitely happen to all managers, by not promoting promising players or shipping out unnecessarily to soon players that could do a job for the team, and if Frank hadn’t shipped him out before he had signed someone to replace Richarlison, he would have been here Saturday to do us job. 

[SpartyBlue]

Just now, Palfy said:

Simms should have stayed till the back up was in and not because he’s better than Rondon, and he proved himself worthy of being a decent striker at Hearts with his goals long before the brace for Sunderland they just further confirmed the mistake of letting him leave to early, and don’t give me the bullshit about the SPL being a shit league, look at our history of players we have plucked from the Scottish league who have done well in our team. I’m not interested in whether Frank disagrees with me or not I have an opinion and unlike yours it’s not based on what Frank always says, you may not like this but he can make poor decisions when it comes to players, just look at Werner he took to Chelsea and a couple of others, paid a fortune and he was poor, so it can definitely happen to all managers, by not promoting promising players or shipping out unnecessarily to soon players that could do a job for the team, and if Frank hadn’t shipped him out before he had signed someone to replace Richarlison, he would have been here Saturday to do us job. 

Who is to say that we would have been able to secure him a Championship loan that late? The Scottish league isn’t the Premier League, it’s not even the Championship. Yes, good players can come up through any league. What does that have to do with the overall quality being far worse? It’s pretty standard for a youth striker to need to have a good, high level loan to prove he’s ready for the top level. You act as if this is some unbelievable decision by the club. 
 

If your opinion isn’t based on the managers and coaches who see him all the time and know the game better than you or I then I’m not sure what to say to you. When you go to the doctor do you tell them that you don’t care about their experience and expertise? If you don’t trust those at the club to evaluate the talent we have and make good decisions *shrug*.

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

Who is to say that we would have been able to secure him a Championship loan that late? The Scottish league isn’t the Premier League, it’s not even the Championship. Yes, good players can come up through any league. What does that have to do with the overall quality being far worse? It’s pretty standard for a youth striker to need to have a good, high level loan to prove he’s ready for the top level. You act as if this is some unbelievable decision by the club. 
 

If your opinion isn’t based on the managers and coaches who see him all the time and know the game better than you or I then I’m not sure what to say to you. When you go to the doctor do you tell them that you don’t care about their experience and expertise? If you don’t trust those at the club to evaluate the talent we have and make good decisions *shrug*.

It’s evident you are just a follower who blindly accepts the opinions of others because you have none worthy mentioning of your own, football management isn’t a science as being a doctor would be, that was the sort of thing I would expect someone to say who didn’t have any judgment of their own. And can you tell me who was DCL’s standard good loans before he entered the team?

[SpartyBlue]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

It’s evident you are just a follower who blindly accepts the opinions of others because you have none worthy mentioning of your own, football management isn’t a science as a doctor would be, that was the sort of thing I would expect someone to say who didn’t have any judgment of their own. And can you tell me who was DCL’s standard good loans before he entered the team?

It’s obvious you are arrogant to the point of absurdity on this topic. You know better than Carlo, Rafa, Frank and all our other coaches. They’ve all spoken with him, seen him train, evaluated and analyzed his play. But you know so much better what’s best for him and his future. Of course managers make mistakes and are not infallible. But this is their job. They and their team evaluate players. It isn’t your job or mine. I tend to trust people who are highly qualified in their fields over my own opinion until I’m given reason not to. 
 

The DCL thing proves my point. He was evaluated by our manager and coaches in training and thought to be ready for an opportunity at the Premier League level. Simms was similarly evaluated and now he’s been let go on loan at a time where we could have used a good striker for the first team. That should tell you what you want to know about his current level. You must prove yourself in training and in your play. It is on the player to force his way into the team. If you don’t want to accept the judgement of those running the team, fine, but at least acknowledge that your insistence is based on wishful thinking and not evidence. 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Who is to say that we would have been able to secure him a Championship loan that late? T

More to the point who’s to say we will definitely get someone in or worth having before the window closes, yes look after your players but don’t put individuals before the the team, if you get it wrong everyone suffers.

And can say that through years of experience of owning my own companies, I look out for the welfare of everyone who works for me but I never put individuals interests before the companies. 

[Palfy]

How is it arrogant and absurd to say he shouldn’t have let Simms go anywhere till he had the Richarlison replacement at the club, the DCL comment to your standard reference on how you progress   does not prove your point DCLs advancement of his career goes completely against your standard theory, there is no standard for all in football as you seem to think, please read what you said. 

[Palfy]

55 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

It’s pretty standard for a youth striker to need to have a good, high level loan to prove he’s ready for the top level

DCL went on loan to none league stalybridge Celtic 5 appearance’s  and 6 goals then to division 2 Northampton Town 20 appearance’s and 5 goals, all why a youth player for Sheffield United. 

Then he joined Everton and never had another loan period whilst with us. 

[Gwlad]

He's out of here till June 2023. A lot of us trust Frank and co so let's move on. The signings that we have made within our budget so far are ticking boxes. Reset in January is possible but as it goes I'm feeling confident that we won't suffer the drama of last season.

[SpartyBlue]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

DCL went on loan to none league stalybridge Celtic 5 appearance’s  and 6 goals then to division 2 Northampton Town 20 appearance’s and 5 goals, all why a youth player for Sheffield United. 

Then he joined Everton and never had another loan period whilst with us. 

Because he did what Ellis has not, impressed in training.

[StevO]

8 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

Because he did what Ellis has not, impressed in training.

And whilst training at Sheffield United he had impressed David Unsworth too. 

[Shukes]

I think it’s easy to watch a few goals scored and think he is good enough.

But if you actually watch him in a match, you can see he isn't ready for the premier league just yet. He has been let go on loan for a reason.

He improves and we have a player closer to the first team, or he sells himself as a good championship player and earns us a couple of million back.

Watching him and Dobbin both play, I would be more annoyed that we let Dobbin go out on loan.

[StevO]

Thank fuck he’s on the bench tonight. If he scored again Palfy would be unbearable!

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Thank fuck he’s on the bench tonight. If he scored again Palfy would be unbearable!

Would be?

[StevO]

Didn’t even come off the bench when 2-0 down! His manager clearly thinks he’s shit.

[Palfy]

On 10/08/2022 at 22:21, StevO said:

Didn’t even come off the bench when 2-0 down! His manager clearly thinks he’s shit.

Simms scored again, oh dear how he’s proving he should have been 3rd or 2nd option and not shipped out on loan. Like Frank said in his interview management is all about timing, well he got the timing wrong with that move

[SpartyBlue]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Simms scored again, oh dear how he’s proving he should have been 3rd or 2nd option and not shipped out on loan. Like Frank said in his interview management is all about timing, well he got the timing wrong with that move

Management is also about doing what’s best for the team in the long run. 2 games does not a season make.

[Palfy]

47 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

Management is also about doing what’s best for the team in the long run. 2 games does not a season make.

Lampard said in his interview it’s about timing, taking jobs and the right time and making team decisions at the right time. Your right 2 games does not make a season, but I’m confident I will be posting his goals more often than not on this thread so start getting use to hit we will be discussing this a lot more this season. 

[Cornish Steve]

10 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Lampard said in his interview it’s about timing, taking jobs and the right time and making team decisions at the right time. Your right 2 games does not make a season, but I’m confident I will be posting his goals more often than not on this thread so start getting use to hit we will be discussing this a lot more this season. 

Then we'll have another attacking option next season, one more ready for the Prem. It's all good news.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Simms scored again, oh dear how he’s proving he should have been 3rd or 2nd option and not shipped out on loan. Like Frank said in his interview management is all about timing, well he got the timing wrong with that move

Or he’s proving it’s a successful loan. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

Or he’s proving it’s a successful loan. 

3 goals in 2 games he’s proving he deserved his opportunity here especially when we haven’t got a back up, now to solve our problems of a backup or 3rd striker we are even looking at players in the championship, you couldn’t dream that up

[Gwlad]

Even if Gana doesn't return we have Palf on another mission 

[Bailey]

It doesnt matter if we have the best striker in the world up front with the shite we are serving them!

[Palfy]

25 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

Even if Gana doesn't return we have Palf on another mission 

But this is a different mission in a instead of wanting a player out and then not wanting him to return,  I wanted a player kept in who could have done a job for us whilst we were trying to secure a new forward. I’m like Captain Kirk I love a good mission and will battle till my mission is complete

[Shukes]

I just hope he keeps proving me wrong.

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

3 goals in 2 games he’s proving he deserved his opportunity here especially when we haven’t got a back up, now to solve our problems of a backup or 3rd striker we are even looking at players in the championship, you couldn’t dream that up

I’ll stick with trusting the opinion at the club like Frank and Paul Clements, rather than you, Palfy.