James Tarkowski

[Cornish Steve]

50 minutes ago, Matt said:

Strategy? What strategy are you referring to?

I've read in a few places recently that our focus is on younger players - including both young recruits and bringing players through our youth program. I'm totally on board with this approach, although it will take time to flourish.

[Matt]

40 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I've read in a few places recently that our focus is on younger players - including both young recruits and bringing players through our youth program. I'm totally on board with this approach, although it will take time to flourish.

I think that's been the theory but never saw it develop into a strategy 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I think that's been the theory but never saw it develop into a strategy 

Tbf Thelwell has only been here 5 minutes and he hasn’t even had a transfer window yet so it’s little wonder we’ve not seen his strategy yet

[Matt]

26 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Tbf Thelwell has only been here 5 minutes and he hasn’t even had a transfer window yet so it’s little wonder we’ve not seen his strategy yet

Wasn't casting doubt on him, thought Steve was commenting on past "plans".

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Wasn't casting doubt on him, thought Steve was commenting on past "plans".

Fair enough shippers, sorry I read out wrong

[StevO]

On 27/05/2022 at 17:22, Cornish Steve said:

I've read in a few places recently that our focus is on younger players - including both young recruits and bringing players through our youth program. I'm totally on board with this approach, although it will take time to flourish.

Every club, in every league, like this idea that they go after young players and grow with them. It’s a great idea, but if it’s the only idea then it’s destined to fail more often than not. You need a mix of youth and experience. There is no harm in bringing in experienced players.

Stick four young defenders in your back four and watch the team ship goals. When we have a young left back, young right back and centre backs like Keane, Holgate and Godfrey the most important qualities in the other one, in my opinion, are experience and leadership. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Every club, in every league, like this idea that they go after young players and grow with them. It’s a great idea, but if it’s the only idea then it’s destined to fail more often than not. You need a mix of youth and experience. There is no harm in bringing in experienced players.

Stick four young defenders in your back four and watch the team ship goals. When we have a young left back, young right back and centre backs like Keane, Holgate and Godfrey the most important qualities in the other one, in my opinion, are experience and leadership. 

You won’t win anything with youngsters. 
Famous last words

[RuffRob]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Every club, in every league, like this idea that they go after young players and grow with them. It’s a great idea, but if it’s the only idea then it’s destined to fail more often than not. You need a mix of youth and experience. There is no harm in bringing in experienced players.

Stick four young defenders in your back four and watch the team ship goals. When we have a young left back, young right back and centre backs like Keane, Holgate and Godfrey the most important qualities in the other one, in my opinion, are experience and leadership. 

To actually do this properly you need to also play youngsters regular - this does not come without risk.

Holgate played better towards the end of the season as he got more game time - this is all part of development - actually playing and gaining experience and form and confidence. We are always in a rush to jump on players as soon as they come back in to a team, never giving them the chance to settle in to a team or position properly. 

This could also apply to Iwobi - did he get better and more consistent at the end of last season because he is in the starting 11 regular, quite possible.

We have to settle a little bit for mid table mediocrity as we develop young players and a young team - its not going to be a smooth curve. We will not shift from relegation battle to winning loads of game and challenging for Europe overnight.

To develop young players there has to be some sacrifice and that will be consistency of performance, especially in the first couple of seasons. You then hope season on season you sell on a little, but you invest in slightly better youth each time.

I am open to Tarkowski coming to the club - but only if Keane or Mina move on as one of our more senior defenders.  So his signing should not be at the expense of bring in younger blood or allowing them sufficient game time and thus development of our young defenders. To warrant bringing in a more 'senior' player - think we definitely need to swap out rather than add to - as the very minimum. 

 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

You won’t win anything with youngsters. 
Famous last words

it’s not really happened since though. 1992? 30 years ago? 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

To actually do this properly you need to also play youngsters regular - this does not come without risk.

Holgate played better towards the end of the season as he got more game time - this is all part of development - actually playing and gaining experience and form and confidence. We are always in a rush to jump on players as soon as they come back in to a team, never giving them the chance to settle in to a team or position properly. 

This could also apply to Iwobi - did he get better and more consistent at the end of last season because he is in the starting 11 regular, quite possible.

We have to settle a little bit for mid table mediocrity as we develop young players and a young team - its not going to be a smooth curve. We will not shift from relegation battle to winning loads of game and challenging for Europe overnight.

To develop young players there has to be some sacrifice and that will be consistency of performance, especially in the first couple of seasons. You then hope season on season you sell on a little, but you invest in slightly better youth each time.

I am open to Tarkowski coming to the club - but only if Keane or Mina move on as one of our more senior defenders.  So his signing should not be at the expense of bring in younger blood or allowing them sufficient game time and thus development of our young defenders. To warrant bringing in a more 'senior' player - think we definitely need to swap out rather than add to - as the very minimum. 

 

Though I agree, Holgate is 25 and Iwobi 26, both have had plenty of opportunities. Im glad they came good, now the challenge for them both is to show it’s not a flash in the pan. 
 

I also agree with blooding youngsters, but not as much as I want less risk in the team this year. I want players to develop, but I don’t want another relegation battle. Bring them in when we can afford to and if they perform enough to keep their place then great. But look around all of the top teams, they all have experience in defence. 
 

Wouldn’t expect us to be anything more than mid table next year or the year after, I’m in no rush for us to be competing at the top. Just be stable and build slowly. 
 

Id also only want Tarkowski if Mina went. Well, I want Mina to go anyway, but I see Tarkowski as a no nonsense good value replacement. If after two years we have a 27 year old, more calm and collected, Mason Holgate leading the defence I’d be very happy. 
 

It’s not just a case of adding experience for the sake of it, it needs to be a player who enhances the team. I think Tarkowski brings what our other defenders don’t. 

[Cornish Steve]

If Tarkowski is brought in (and I'd prefer not), he's played together with Keane at Burnley, so I'd say it's less probable that Keane would be shipped out. Instead, Tarkowski would replace Mina.

[StevO]

3 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

If Tarkowski is brought in (and I'd prefer not), he's played together with Keane at Burnley, so I'd say it's less probable that Keane would be shipped out. Instead, Tarkowski would replace Mina.

They were only at Burnley together for 18 months and Tarkowski, but looking at the numbers it seems like Keane and Mee would have been first choice as they played the most games. I don’t see that having anything to do with it anyway, it was five years ago. 
Aside from that, I don’t see Keane going anywhere and I think Mina should be sold at the first possible opportunity. He earns too much and never plays. 

[c1982]

7 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

If Tarkowski is brought in (and I'd prefer not), he's played together with Keane at Burnley, so I'd say it's less probable that Keane would be shipped out. Instead, Tarkowski would replace Mina.

Tarkowski was more of a replacement to Keane - Mee was the main stay.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[Zoo 2.0]

A mate at my old work said that we signed the wrong Burnley defender when we bought Michael Keane, he absolutely adored Tarkowski (as he was a STH at Turf Moor). I'll be honest I'm open to this signing, I just worry about the wages being mentioned because they're fucking insane. 

[Romey 1878]

 

[Hafnia]

lampard has links with him from Chelsea days. 

[Romey 1878]

6 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

 

41 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

lampard has links with him from Chelsea days. 

Bit late to the party .

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

Bit late to the party .

Indeed.  I check bobble before trusting any news sources. 

[Palfy]

It would be interesting to know if there has been much dialogue between him and Lampard or whether everything has been left to Thirwell and his agent. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2022/06/03/gylfi-sigurdsson-update-at-everton-as-frank-lampard-gets-closer-to-james-tarkowski-transfer/

[Romey 1878]

12 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2022/06/03/gylfi-sigurdsson-update-at-everton-as-frank-lampard-gets-closer-to-james-tarkowski-transfer/

That's a bit worrying tbh - we need to raise funds to be able to afford the wages of an average player because they're asking for so much.

[SpartyBlue]

9 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

That's a bit worrying tbh - we need to raise funds to be able to afford the wages of an average player because they're asking for so much.

This is before Richarlison goes though, and likely a couple others. So it might just be a temporary thing. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

That's a bit worrying tbh - we need to raise funds to be able to afford the wages of an average player because they're asking for so much.

I don’t think this is an issue at all. We’ve got loads of money coming off the books.  Getting a good player on a free, I think we will have a few quid to spend more than we thought. 

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I don’t think this is an issue at all. We’ve got loads of money coming off the books.  Getting a good player on a free, I think we will have a few quid to spend more than we thought. 

I think paying big wages is a problem for the club, our wages bill has crept into 92-93% of our annual turnover. When players on big wages leave we shouldn’t view their wages as free hit for the next player to come in, and as Rom said pay super star wages to average players. When Brands joined one of his tasks was to get the wages bill down, he obviously didn’t achieve it and it increased significantly in his time and has increased again since he left. We need to curb our spending because if we don’t it’s going to cost us points and then possibly our PL status. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

I don’t think this is an issue at all. We’ve got loads of money coming off the books.  Getting a good player on a free, I think we will have a few quid to spend more than we thought. 

Paying James Tarkowski 100K a week is definitely an issue. That would be stupidity so I hope the article isn't accurate.

[SpartyBlue]

4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Paying James Tarkowski 100K a week is definitely an issue. That would be stupidity so I hope the article isn't accurate.

We pay others more and because he’s on a free his salary over the length of a 3/4 year contract would be effectively halved as far as a commitment from the club. 

[Romey 1878]

12 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

We pay others more and because he’s on a free his salary over the length of a 3/4 year contract would be effectively halved as far as a commitment from the club. 

Nice one then, I take it back, 100K a week for him is great value.

[Hafnia]

58 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Nice one then, I take it back, 100K a week for him is great value.

Would you be happier spending £11m on a similar quality centre half and giving them £30k a week?  Because that’s what the numbers are equivalent to. 

[Zoo 2.0]

5 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Would you be happier spending £11m on a similar quality centre half and giving them £30k a week?  Because that’s what the numbers are equivalent to. 

On £30,000 the argument could be made that the player in question would be more willing to graft for their money, perhaps to earn a bigger contract in the future.

Giving someone £100,000 could potentially make them numb to their on field performances, due to the fact that they're guaranteed a bumper wage anyway.