James Tarkowski

[Hafnia]

11 minutes ago, Bailey said:

So Lampard already had Silva, Rudiger, Christensen, Chalobah, Azpilicueta, Zouma, Tomori and Sarr but still wanted another CB? 

I find that bizarre.

He fell out with rudiger, silva needs cover, he liked to try a back 3 occasionally, azpiliqueta is a full back, tomori was on loan, Christensen and chalobah aren’t fancied by lampard or the current manager.  
 

not really bizarre, you just don’t rate him as highly as managers in the game do. 

[Gwlad]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

If he signs, can we pronounce his name "hamez"?

We can do anything on TT!

[Formby]

Really not sold on Tarkowski at all - especially at the price quoted. I thought we were going to stop buying players at the fag-end of their careers. I realise we need someone, but come on, there must be better and younger out there.   

[SpartyBlue]

10 minutes ago, Formby said:

Really not sold on Tarkowski at all - especially at the price quoted. I thought we were going to stop buying players at the fag-end of their careers. I realise we need someone, but come on, there must be better and younger out there.   

The price is a $0 transfer fee. Fair to ask whether this is the right player or not but he’s a cheap option for the club, even on 100k a week. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Formby said:

Really not sold on Tarkowski at all - especially at the price quoted. I thought we were going to stop buying players at the fag-end of their careers. I realise we need someone, but come on, there must be better and younger out there.   

He’s 29, younger than vvd. 

[dunlopp9987]

3 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

He’s 29, younger than vvd. 

He's also a leader, which is what the back line needs. Admittedly I wish we were going after someone with a bit more pace, but someone who is solid defensively who can be a mentor to a guy like Godfrey is exactly what we need.

We need to face the fact that these are the types of signings we're likely to be making this window

[c1982]

Last thing I’ll say on this; we’ve got Godfrey and Branthwaite who are both top young prospects. We’ve got Holgate who has been decent under Lampard and is still a good age but can’t play with either of the above - these are probably the 3 we should be keeping so we need a senior centre back to replace Mina and hopefully Keane too so Tarkowski, given our financial situation and need for reinvestment elsewhere, is a no brainer in my opinion.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Formby said:

Really not sold on Tarkowski at all - especially at the price quoted. I thought we were going to stop buying players at the fag-end of their careers. I realise we need someone, but come on, there must be better and younger out there.   

The price? He’s cheaper than a 10p mix!!

[StevO]

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

He's also a leader, which is what the back line needs. Admittedly I wish we were going after someone with a bit more pace, but someone who is solid defensively who can be a mentor to a guy like Godfrey is exactly what we need.

We need to face the fact that these are the types of signings we're likely to be making this window

This. We need someone stable at the back, who doesn’t pick up many injuries and can come in straight away. We can’t afford to wait for anyone to settle in. 

[Formby]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

He’s 29, younger than vvd. 

Indeed, but he's not VVD and I doubt Liverpool would have paid so much if they were after VVD now. They got him when he was 27?

[Formby]

38 minutes ago, StevO said:

The price? He’s cheaper than a 10p mix!!

Apologies! Like a complete doofus I read the previous posts, saw what Burney had asked for a few years ago, and ignored the free transfer bit.

Can I say I still don't like the wages? 

[Btay]

3 hours ago, c1982 said:

Last thing I’ll say on this; we’ve got Godfrey and Branthwaite who are both top young prospects. We’ve got Holgate who has been decent under Lampard and is still a good age but can’t play with either of the above - these are probably the 3 we should be keeping so we need a senior centre back to replace Mina and hopefully Keane too so Tarkowski, given our financial situation and need for reinvestment elsewhere, is a no brainer in my opinion.

Agree with this. He is an upgrade on both Mina & Keane in terms of reliability & consistency of performance. Very much a like for like replacement with Keane.

Maybe Marco Silva will enquire about Keane…

[Goodison Glory]

11 hours ago, c1982 said:

Last thing I’ll say on this; we’ve got Godfrey and Branthwaite who are both top young prospects. We’ve got Holgate who has been decent under Lampard and is still a good age but can’t play with either of the above - these are probably the 3 we should be keeping so we need a senior centre back to replace Mina and hopefully Keane too so Tarkowski, given our financial situation and need for reinvestment elsewhere, is a no brainer in my opinion.

Agree with everything you said other than Brathwaite being a top prospect. Needs to kick on if you ask me. He's only had a few chances but he is making lots of mistakes.

[Hafnia]

11 hours ago, Formby said:

Indeed, but he's not VVD and I doubt Liverpool would have paid so much if they were after VVD now. They got him when he was 27?

Never said he is vvd, but you don’t hear Liverpool fans worrying that he’s 30 do you?

which centre half would you sign to improve us? Bearing in mind we leak goals from set pieces, lack leadership at the back… go! 

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Goodison Glory said:

Agree with everything you said other than Brathwaite being a top prospect. Needs to kick on if you ask me. He's only had a few chances but he is making lots of mistakes.

Branthwaite is 19… He needs a good season on loan playing plenty of first team football in a competitive league.

[Bailey]

On 04/06/2022 at 13:38, Hafnia said:

No that’s incorrect. Tarkowski only had  20 more aerial duels than van dyke this season, who in turn had more than lascelles and Hanley from Newcastle and Norwich respectively.

clearly forgetting that better sides have their centre halves facing more long goal kicks from their sides missed shots and that they are up for their teams corners. 

 

Then why do Burnley defenders dominate the defensive stats year after year?

Aerial Battles Won

2021/22 - 1. Tarkowski 153 from 35 games / 4. Ben Mee 112 / 35 games (extrapolated as he only played 21 times)

2020/21 - 1. Tarkowski 165 from 36 games / 5. Ben Mee 110 / 30 games

2019/20 - 1. Tarkowski 198 from 38 games / 8. Ben Mee 131 / 32 games

2018/19 - 5. Tarkowski 169 from 35 games / 6. Ben Mee 149 / 38 games (Keane 2nd with 192)

When you go through the clearances over the years, it is the same pattern.

Interestingly he features more prominently on the fouls conceded charts than Mee.

On 04/06/2022 at 13:48, Hafnia said:

He fell out with rudiger, silva needs cover, he liked to try a back 3 occasionally, azpiliqueta is a full back, tomori was on loan, Christensen and chalobah aren’t fancied by lampard or the current manager.  
 

not really bizarre, you just don’t rate him as highly as managers in the game do. 

Falling out with one of the better CB's in the game isn't great, especially to then consider Tarkowski as his replacement.

Silva has done pretty well I would say.

Azpilicueta has regularly played as a 3rd CB.

Tomori was sent on loan.

Christensen has played regularly under Tuchel given the number of players at his disposal (and the players injuries). His contract has run out and is now heading to Barcelona by the looks of it.

Chalobah played 20 times in the league under Tuchel.

When Lampard left, Chelsea went on to be one of the best defensive sides in the league too.

You can see exactly why the Chelsea hierarchy said no!

18 hours ago, StevO said:

This. We need someone stable at the back, who doesn’t pick up many injuries and can come in straight away. We can’t afford to wait for anyone to settle in. 

Now you have done it!

15 hours ago, Btay said:

Agree with this. He is an upgrade on both Mina & Keane in terms of reliability & consistency of performance. Very much a like for like replacement with Keane.

Maybe Marco Silva will enquire about Keane…

I really don't think you can say this until you see him play away from Burnley. How they play is so distinctive to them and their centre halves get so much protection. Keane was very consistent at Burnley and well, look at what has happened since!

When the game got stretched against us, their defence was all over the place but I thought he did well (whereas the others were dreadful), which would give me some hope about him fitting into a different style of side.

When I watched him play for England, I remember he thinking he looked uncomfortable playing a higher line and his inability to deal with his man 1v1 led to the penalty. It was 2018 though so he may be better than that now.

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Then why do Burnley defenders dominate the defensive stats year after year?

Aerial Battles Won

2021/22 - 1. Tarkowski 153 from 35 games / 4. Ben Mee 112 / 35 games (extrapolated as he only played 21 times)

2020/21 - 1. Tarkowski 165 from 36 games / 5. Ben Mee 110 / 30 games

2019/20 - 1. Tarkowski 198 from 38 games / 8. Ben Mee 131 / 32 games

2018/19 - 5. Tarkowski 169 from 35 games / 6. Ben Mee 149 / 38 games (Keane 2nd with 192)

When you go through the clearances over the years, it is the same pattern.

Interestingly he features more prominently on the fouls conceded charts than Mee.

Falling out with one of the better CB's in the game isn't great, especially to then consider Tarkowski as his replacement.

Silva has done pretty well I would say.

Azpilicueta has regularly played as a 3rd CB.

Tomori was sent on loan.

Christensen has played regularly under Tuchel given the number of players at his disposal (and the players injuries). His contract has run out and is now heading to Barcelona by the looks of it.

Chalobah played 20 times in the league under Tuchel.

When Lampard left, Chelsea went on to be one of the best defensive sides in the league too.

You can see exactly why the Chelsea hierarchy said no!

Now you have done it!

I really don't think you can say this until you see him play away from Burnley. How they play is so distinctive to them and their centre halves get so much protection. Keane was very consistent at Burnley and well, look at what has happened since!

When the game got stretched against us, their defence was all over the place but I thought he did well (whereas the others were dreadful), which would give me some hope about him fitting into a different style of side.

When I watched him play for England, I remember he thinking he looked uncomfortable playing a higher line and his inability to deal with his man 1v1 led to the penalty. It was 2018 though so he may be better than that now.

The fact 2 Burnley centre halves feature doesn’t conclude anything other than the fact that they are strong in the air.   Why would Burnley and their style of play result in centre halves winning loads of duels? The fact that Burnley never got relegated despite never having players score many goals maybe suggests they were defensively solid no? 
 

you are looking for a commonality which suggests that it’s down to his the team plays. VVD being up there blows that out the water imo. The only thing to deduce is that they are strong in the air, coincidentally Michael Keane is up there in that department and we can attest to him being strong in the air (unless he’s not doing a static jump or jumping backwards). 
 

falling out with rudiger isn’t a bad thing, he paired silva and zouma when playing a back 4 and rudiger sulked and caused problems .  By all accounts he had clashed with azpiliqueta, many Chelsea fans say he can’t play back 4. 
 

you always do this shite when we are buying a player you’ve made judgement on with little evidence. No doubt if we do sign him you will go full Godfrey and mykolenko and explain why nearly every goal conceded was down to their errors. 

[SpartyBlue]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

The fact 2 Burnley centre halves feature doesn’t conclude anything other than the fact that they are strong in the air.   Why would Burnley and their style of play result in centre halves winning loads of duels? The fact that Burnley never got relegated despite never having players score many goals maybe suggests they were defensively solid no? 
 

you are looking for a commonality which suggests that it’s down to his the team plays. VVD being up there blows that out the water imo. The only thing to deduce is that they are strong in the air, coincidentally Michael Keane is up there in that department and we can attest to him being strong in the air (unless he’s not doing a static jump or jumping backwards). 
 

falling out with rudiger isn’t a bad thing, he paired silva and zouma when playing a back 4 and rudiger sulked and caused problems .  By all accounts he had clashed with azpiliqueta, many Chelsea fans say he can’t play back 4. 
 

you always do this shite when we are buying a player you’ve made judgement on with little evidence. 

I don’t necessarily disagree with your analysis here but saying VVD winning lots of aerial duals disproves Burnley’s style lending itself to CB’s doing similar isn’t sound logic. These things are not mutually exclusive. Both can rate highly in this category as a result of different ways of playing. 

[Hafnia]

7 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

I don’t necessarily disagree with your analysis here but saying VVD winning lots of aerial duals disproves Burnley’s style lending itself to CB’s doing similar isn’t sound logic. These things are not mutually exclusive. Both can rate highly in this category as a result of different ways of playing. 

That’s my point…. There is nothing conclusive in who the players play for. So based on that you can look at Tarkowski stats and safely say he is a dominant player in the air.

 

 

[SpartyBlue]

9 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

That’s my point…. There is nothing conclusive in who the players play for. So based on that you can look at Tarkowski stats and safely say he is a dominant player in the air.

 

 

Or you can say Burnley forces teams outside this resulting in a lot of crosses and opportunities for CB to win duels. “Not conclusive” works both ways. 
 

I tend to agree that if a player consistently shows up at the top of a category we can assume that’s if strength of his game. However, there are always mitigating factors for all stats. Saves don’t tell the full picture of a keeper, assists don’t tell the full picture of a playmaker. You can’t really normalize for everything and that’s why even amongst top clubs there is a certain amount of guesswork. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

Or you can say Burnley forces teams outside this resulting in a lot of crosses and opportunities for CB to win duels. “Not conclusive” works both ways. 
 

I tend to agree that if a player consistently shows up at the top of a category we can assume that’s if strength of his game. However, there are always mitigating factors for all stats. Saves don’t tell the full picture of a keeper, assists don’t tell the full picture of a playmaker. You can’t really normalize for everything and that’s why even amongst top clubs there is a certain amount of guesswork. 

No I factor it in with what I have seen. Dcl is very good in the air and never got a thing off tarkowski, tarkowski has that ability to physically take up the space and is strong on the deck. He was outstanding against us.
 

either way, for me he is one of the better centre halves in the league.  Put it this way when mee got injured his loss wasn’t felt as bad cos tarkowski held them together. 

[patto]

On 24/05/2022 at 14:23, Cornish Steve said:

Honestly, I'd rather plan for the future with someone like Harry Souttar - a younger player who deserves to step up to the Premier League.

Why does he deserve to step up have you been watching him play. 

[patto]

Looks like James T is ours let’s not worry about his wages we paid 12m for Williams and he was terrible we paid 18m for Mina plus 6m a year wages so let’s not look for problems with a free transfer a 3yr deal with an option sounds good to me. 

[SpartyBlue]

38 minutes ago, patto said:

Looks like James T is ours let’s not worry about his wages we paid 12m for Williams and he was terrible we paid 18m for Mina plus 6m a year wages so let’s not look for problems with a free transfer a 3yr deal with an option sounds good to me. 

Even if he’s just solid I think it’s a good move. CB is probably the best position for an older player to still be productive as well as it relies more on positioning and experience than speed. 

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, patto said:

Why does he deserve to step up have you been watching him play. 

From game reports, from stats, from commentator opinions. I've not watched him play, no, but the opinions of these others count more than mine anyway.

[Formby]

On 05/06/2022 at 09:25, Hafnia said:

Never said he is vvd, but you don’t hear Liverpool fans worrying that he’s 30 do you?

which centre half would you sign to improve us? Bearing in mind we leak goals from set pieces, lack leadership at the back… go! 

So, we're playing Monopoly?! Tarkowski is a Northumberland Avenue type player at best. VVD more Regent Street. I would take VVD at 30 if he was available.

Tarkowski at 29, meh, I would rather look for someone else.

Are you restricting me to free transfers or can we sell to buy?

If Frank rates Tarkowski and he comes through the door, both would have my full support. I hope Tarkowski (and you) make me see sense. Richard Gough was about 90 when he joined and he was good! 

[Hafnia]

24 minutes ago, Formby said:

So, we're playing Monopoly?! Tarkowski is a Northumberland Avenue type player at best. VVD more Regent Street. I would take VVD at 30 if he was available.

Tarkowski at 29, meh, I would rather look for someone else.

Are you restricting me to free transfers of can we sell to buy?

If Frank rates Tarkowski and he comes through the door, both would have my full support. I hope Tarkowski (and you) make me see sense. Richard Gough was about 90 when he joined and he was good! 

I’m restricting you on the basis that we have a team to overhaul in a few positions so money is likely to be tight. I’d say Tarkowski is Leicester Square…. The yellows. Our current defenders are pinks/orange at best. 

[Btay]

Well this is new even for toffeetalk. 

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Btay said:

Well this is new even for toffeetalk. 

You've seen nothing yet, Btay.

You probably weren't around when Pax was on here. That was fun.

[Hafnia]

22 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You've seen nothing yet, Btay.

You probably weren't around when Pax was on here. That was fun.

What a bellend he was. Basically hated people from the north.