Carlo Ancelotti

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

Players Brand’s has brought in and their wages from lowest to highest. 
Nkounkou 4,500

Olsen 15,200

Goffrey 42,500

Kean 50,000

Doucoure 82,500

Delph, Iwobi 100,000

Digne 110,000

Allan 115,000

Bernard 130,000

Mina 135,000

Richarlison Gomes James 140,000

Could he have done better in negotiating their wages to right he could have, I don’t believe we have value for money on a lot of those players, that’s why our wages bill is hitting heights in percentage of turnover not known before, take a look at West Ham and Leicester to teams above us, they have managed to get players that perform on less money so it can be done, in fact West Ham have only one player who earns 100,000 a week everyone else is below that.

Are we really that much better or that much more competitive with what he has negotiated in players wages, let’s look at what we know he will be saving even if there loan clubs are paying nothing towards their wages come the end of the season.

Besic 30,000

Bolasie 60,000

Wallcott 110,000

He needs to go out and get deals done in the wages brackets of Godfrey and Doucoure, instead of Delph Iwobi Bernard Mina Gomes ect, do the job he was brought into to do instead of adding to the problem he was asked to fix.

You’ll never be pleased with the job he does by the sounds of it. 
Godfrey and Doucoure are on a lower wage due to coming in from Norwich and Watford and making the step up. Trust me, Godfrey will be on £100k per week soon enough.  Delph was a short term solution that didn’t work. Iwobi was a calculated risk that hasn’t paid off. Mina and Gomes were on decent contracts at Barca, so you’ve got to pay the going rate of you want the player. Bernard was free, so his big wage is no problem as we didn’t put out for him. 
We can’t get a load of players for £60-80k per week and expect to compete. It just won’t happen. Again, his job is more than just reducing the wage bill and signing players. He is building the infrastructure of the club. Still, we need to increase turnover, so do we talk about the commercial department and their short comings? Other than asking Usmanov to sponsor anything we can put our hands on. 
We might as well agree to disagree because I really don’t care about the wage bill, if the owner is fine with it then so am I. But if you’re that concerned I don’t expect to see you get excited if we splash the cash again in the summer, because the likes of Koulibaly will come in on crazy wages or we can’t get him. Aarons might be cheaper, but that’s just how it goes. 

[Cornish Steve]

As long we we're not one of the Top Four with the financial resources they have, we have to pursue a strategy that will work. We could simply pay midling fees and wages for proven midling players, or we can invest heavily in a youth program that leads to homegrown stars, or we can take risks with some really paying off (Allan, Godfrey) and others not (Delph, Iwobi). That's simply the nature of things.

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

Players Brand’s has brought in and their wages from lowest to highest. 
Nkounkou 4,500

Olsen 15,200

Goffrey 42,500

Kean 50,000

Doucoure 82,500

Delph, Iwobi 100,000

Digne 110,000

Allan 115,000

Bernard 130,000

Mina 135,000

Richarlison Gomes James 140,000

Could he have done better in negotiating their wages to right he could have, I don’t believe we have value for money on a lot of those players, that’s why our wages bill is hitting heights in percentage of turnover not known before, take a look at West Ham and Leicester to teams above us, they have managed to get players that perform on less money so it can be done, in fact West Ham have only one player who earns 100,000 a week everyone else is below that.

Are we really that much better or that much more competitive with what he has negotiated in players wages, let’s look at what we know he will be saving even if there loan clubs are paying nothing towards their wages come the end of the season.

Besic 30,000

Bolasie 60,000

Wallcott 110,000

He needs to go out and get deals done in the wages brackets of Godfrey and Doucoure, instead of Delph Iwobi Bernard Mina Gomes ect, do the job he was brought into to do instead of adding to the problem he was asked to fix.

West Ham finished 16th with 39 points last season. Yes they are doing well this season, but it isn't guaranteed to be the same next season. The one player they will be desperate to keep (Lingard), will probably command wages over £100k having proven himself again.

The other problem in talking about wages is that the figures vary depending on where you look. An example is here:

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/everton-fc/payroll/

According to that Godfrey is on more than Doucoure and Iwobi.

It also only tells half the story. Signing on fees and bonuses can also make a big difference to the individual contracts. I would be amazed if James didn't earn far more than everyone else when you tot everything up at the end of the season.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, StevO said:

You’ll never be pleased with the job he does by the sounds of it. 
Godfrey and Doucoure are on a lower wage due to coming in from Norwich and Watford and making the step up. Trust me, Godfrey will be on £100k per week soon enough.  Delph was a short term solution that didn’t work. Iwobi was a calculated risk that hasn’t paid off. Mina and Gomes were on decent contracts at Barca, so you’ve got to pay the going rate of you want the player. Bernard was free, so his big wage is no problem as we didn’t put out for him. 
We can’t get a load of players for £60-80k per week and expect to compete. It just won’t happen. Again, his job is more than just reducing the wage bill and signing players. He is building the infrastructure of the club. Still, we need to increase turnover, so do we talk about the commercial department and their short comings? Other than asking Usmanov to sponsor anything we can put our hands on. 
We might as well agree to disagree because I really don’t care about the wage bill, if the owner is fine with it then so am I. But if you’re that concerned I don’t expect to see you get excited if we splash the cash again in the summer, because the likes of Koulibaly will come in on crazy wages or we can’t get him. Aarons might be cheaper, but that’s just how it goes. 

Of coarse I want Everton  to be able to go out and spend spend spend, but unfortunately there’s this FFP rule, we’ve fallen foul of it once, we are in breach of it now but should escape punishment due to Covid-19. But if you keep flaunting it blatantly every season then the punishments will get harsher, from transfer embargoes and possibly point deductions. Is that not something to be concerned about. 

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Of coarse I want Everton  to be able to go out and spend spend spend, but unfortunately there’s this FFP rule, we’ve fallen foul of it once, we are in breach of it now but should escape punishment due to Covid-19. But if you keep flaunting it blatantly every season then the punishments will get harsher, from transfer embargoes and possibly point deductions. Is that not something to be concerned about. 

Not when that's not been reality,  no. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

West Ham finished 16th with 39 points last season. Yes they are doing well this season, but it isn't guaranteed to be the same next season.

Last season we spent millions and paid out considerably more than West Ham and Leicester in wages and we finished 11th, this season we will hopefully finish in the top 6 but as with West Ham and Leicester that’s more to do with the managers than the DoF, West Ham now don’t even have a DoF anymore he was dismissed with Pellegrini. 

[Louis]

He is doing a web stream (zoom) interview this evening (6pm-7:15pm) for the University of Liverpool: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-lucrezia-zaina-bequest-in-conversation-with-carlo-ancelotti-tickets-150877906881 

It's free, you just need to register.

[barryj]

1 hour ago, Louis said:

He is doing a web stream (zoom) interview tomorrow evening (6pm-7:15pm) for the University of Liverpool: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-lucrezia-zaina-bequest-in-conversation-with-carlo-ancelotti-tickets-150877906881 

It's free, you just need to register.

It’s tonight. 

[MikeO]

6 hours ago, barryj said:

It’s tonight. 

Fifteen minutes away, I'm registered, might be interesting.

[MikeO]

Good that, stand-out moments from his playing/managing career? Winning CL as player and manager and winning the derby at Anfield. What current player does he think is most like him as a player? Tom Davies. Came across really well all the way through, but I expected nothing less. We're so bloody lucky to have him.

[Btay]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Good that, stand-out moments from his playing/managing career? Winning CL as player and manager and winning the derby at Anfield. What current player does he think is most like him as a player? Tom Davies. Came across really well all the way through, but I expected nothing less. We're so bloody lucky to have him.

It really seems like the management team appreciate Tom and I really hope it’s what he needs to kick on and become a quality player.

[Cisk]

On 24/04/2021 at 17:16, MikeO said:

I only looked at a couple of pages Mark, @Cisk also had a comment I could 've included but missed.

Que?

[MikeO]

14 minutes ago, Cisk said:

Que?

An anti-Delph comment you made before we signed him, as several of us did. Can't be arsed to go searching for it now but you were one of the fully vindicated naysayers.

[Cisk]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

An anti-Delph comment you made before we signed him, as several of us did. Can't be arsed to go searching for it now but you were one of the fully vindicated naysayers.

Gotcha....my opinion hasn't changed. What an absolute waste of a squad number.

[barryj]

13 hours ago, MikeO said:

Good that, stand-out moments from his playing/managing career? Winning CL as player and manager and winning the derby at Anfield. What current player does he think is most like him as a player? Tom Davies. Came across really well all the way through, but I expected nothing less. We're so bloody lucky to have him.

It was very interesting as I knew it would be. I missed the end though but saw it was recorded so I’d be interested if it’s available anywhere. 

[MikeO]

8 hours ago, barryj said:

It was very interesting as I knew it would be. I missed the end though but saw it was recorded so I’d be interested if it’s available anywhere. 

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/openhouse/carlo-ancelotti/

[Sibdane]

Bringing Delph on was criminal. As much as I’m on the fence about Davies, there’s no way he offers less than Delph does. 

[MikeO]

13 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

Bringing Delph on was criminal. As much as I’m on the fence about Davies, there’s no way he offers less than Delph does. 

This is the craziness for me. Carlo sees all the players every day at Finch Farm and as a guy who's taken eight teams into the CL he thinks that Delph is a decent option from the bench? While every Evertonian on the planet thinks it's a crap idea (which it turns out to be)? He can't be more stupid than us guys or he'd be getting whatever the Italian version of Universal Credit is wouldn't he?

Depressing.

[Romey 1878]

Just now, MikeO said:

This is the craziness for me. Carlo sees all the players every day at Finch Farm and as a guy who's taken eight teams into the CL he thinks that Delph is a decent option from the bench? While every Evertonian on the planet thinks it's a crap idea (which it turns out to be)? He can't be more stupid than us guys or he'd be getting whatever the Italian version of Universal Credit is wouldn't he?

Depressing.

It frightened the life out of me when he was talking about how disappointed he's been about Delph being injured so much because he'd have been using him more... He's fucking garbage.

[Bailey]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

This is the craziness for me. Carlo sees all the players every day at Finch Farm and as a guy who's taken eight teams into the CL he thinks that Delph is a decent option from the bench? While every Evertonian on the planet thinks it's a crap idea (which it turns out to be)? He can't be more stupid than us guys or he'd be getting whatever the Italian version of Universal Credit is wouldn't he?

Depressing.

It also shows where he thinks Davies is in the pecking order despite his comments previously! 

[barryj]

On 30/04/2021 at 17:02, MikeO said:

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/openhouse/carlo-ancelotti/

Thanks Mike

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, MikeO said:

This is the craziness for me. Carlo sees all the players every day at Finch Farm and as a guy who's taken eight teams into the CL he thinks that Delph is a decent option from the bench? While every Evertonian on the planet thinks it's a crap idea (which it turns out to be)? He can't be more stupid than us guys or he'd be getting whatever the Italian version of Universal Credit is wouldn't he?

Depressing.

Just hold onto your earlier statement of “we are lucky to have him” because in the long term things will turn out for the better. I can understand why he went for Delph over Davies in that situation, he needed to win the game and not hold out for the draw, and Delph was the better option, the fact that he’s not that good is not the fault of Ancelotti he is pretty much trying to work with the tools he inherited. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Just hold onto your earlier statement of “we are lucky to have him” because in the long term things will turn out for the better. I can understand why he went for Delph over Davies in that situation, he needed to win the game and not hold out for the draw, and Delph was the better option, the fact that he’s not that good is not the fault of Ancelotti he is pretty much trying to work with the tools he inherited. 

By bringing Delph on holding out for the draw is the exact message he sent out.

[Romey 1878]

1 win in 10 at home is a disgrace and if it was any of our other managers he would be getting questioned big time, but because of who he is he's getting a free ride and I think that's wrong.

By questioned, I don't mean questions about his job because getting rid of him would be absurd (I'm certainly not wanting rid of him), but he himself is most definitely a part of our problems.

[Wiggytop]

We’re all feeling the pain from last night, I think we all believe that Carla is going to do a job for us, he is working with the squad of players he inherited plus the additions of last summer, but I do have to question the fact that he continues to play Iwobi from the start rather than giving Josh King a chance to show what he can do. Bringing Delph on ahead of Tom Davis baffles me, Tom will always try and drive forward and create something, Delph is happy to stroll around the back spray a few passes and think he’s better than the rest of the team.

I think we have a decent core of 11 players, and if they can start we have quite a good team however as soon as we lose one or two of them and l have to bring in the replacements from the start it looks as if it upsets the balance of the team and we lose any of the drive and cohesion that we showed at the start of the season. All we can hope for is some new additions in the summer to take us that step forward we all wish.

[Hafnia]

Ok..... We are in a situation with Carlo.  

The reality is there are lots of fans with scar tissue when it comes to managers and despite having one of the most decorated managers in the game this isn't going to give him carte blanche. Many are already questioning him.  

The fly in the ointment is the players.  On the whole they are shit - technically, mentally, athletically.... I could group a good few in each of those categories where quite clearly we have issues. 

 The thing is - would another manager get a better tune from them? Yes is my opinion.  I think Moyes would, I actually think Dunc would.  The reason being is that these players need some hairdryer treatment, extra training and probably need the manager to be on them all the time.

I would love it if Carlo could morph himself into a cup smashing tyrant who the players are scared of. This group need it.  Carlo is not the manager for these players - but more critically there are too many of these players who are not for our club...... Carlo is.

The solution is change the players or change the players.  By that I mean - the current players need to be changed in how they go about their business and their culture, or they need to be changed as in shipped out.

This needs to happen quickly.... And I mean 5/6 top signings made before pre season.  None of this last day bollocks.  Otherwise we are never going to realise the potential of a world class manager at our club.

Some may argue "well isn't that just cheating? Most managers do well if you get better players"....  Yeah but there is always a frank lampard counter argument. 

With Carlo we have to go for it.  Trust his pedigree.   As a club we will never get a better manager who can attract the level of players that we need - no chance.  So with that we need to provide him with the funds and fingers crossed you can see what a concert level pianist does with a piano that isn't out of tune. 

My main niggle that doesn't sit right is his son being on staff......  I trust Carlo but also recognise that the love from a parent can cloud wisdom.  Is he prepping his son for a career rather than putting the crowning moments on his own? 

[Btay]

58 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Ok..... We are in a situation with Carlo.  

The reality is there are lots of fans with scar tissue when it comes to managers and despite having one of the most decorated managers in the game this isn't going to give him carte blanche. Many are already questioning him.  

The fly in the ointment is the players.  On the whole they are shit - technically, mentally, athletically.... I could group a good few in each of those categories where quite clearly we have issues. 

 The thing is - would another manager get a better tune from them? Yes is my opinion.  I think Moyes would, I actually think Dunc would.  The reason being is that these players need some hairdryer treatment, extra training and probably need the manager to be on them all the time.

I would love it if Carlo could morph himself into a cup smashing tyrant who the players are scared of. This group need it.  Carlo is not the manager for these players - but more critically there are too many of these players who are not for our club...... Carlo is.

The solution is change the players or change the players.  By that I mean - the current players need to be changed in how they go about their business and their culture, or they need to be changed as in shipped out.

This needs to happen quickly.... And I mean 5/6 top signings made before pre season.  None of this last day bollocks.  Otherwise we are never going to realise the potential of a world class manager at our club.

Some may argue "well isn't that just cheating? Most managers do well if you get better players"....  Yeah but there is always a frank lampard counter argument. 

With Carlo we have to go for it.  Trust his pedigree.   As a club we will never get a better manager who can attract the level of players that we need - no chance.  So with that we need to provide him with the funds and fingers crossed you can see what a concert level pianist does with a piano that isn't out of tune. 

My main niggle that doesn't sit right is his son being on staff......  I trust Carlo but also recognise that the love from a parent can cloud wisdom.  Is he prepping his son for a career rather than putting the crowning moments on his own? 

My growing concern though is his apparent fondness of Delph. I don’t understand how he can rate him and I don’t want us to sign anymore players of similar level

[Wiggytop]

38 minutes ago, Btay said:

My growing concern though is his apparent fondness of Delph. I don’t understand how he can rate him and I don’t want us to sign anymore players of similar level

Hopefully it’s all about getting him in the shop window so we can get rid.

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

1 win in 10 at home is a disgrace and if it was any of our other managers he would be getting questioned big time, but because of who he is he's getting a free ride and I think that's wrong.

By questioned, I don't mean questions about his job because getting rid of him would be absurd (I'm certainly not wanting rid of him), but he himself is most definitely a part of our problems.

So what do you achieve by questioning him what questions are you going to ask him? If you are not prepared to ask for his head and  you think he’s getting a free ride because of who he is, then you are just sitting on the fence, if it was your company and you just said that about your shop floor manager and did nothing you would look weak to the rest of your workforce, so if you think he’s getting a free ride and it’s wrong what do you do to stop it if not sacking him. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

By bringing Delph on holding out for the draw is the exact message he sent out.

Bringing Davies on wound have been more of a signal he was holding out for a draw than bringing Delph on, Delph of the 2 on paper has the better chance of creating something with ability on the ball.