January Transfer Window

[RuffRob]

I would definitely like to see him overlap a lot more and get further forward - he can deliver a ball and does have a nice strike on him if he gets a chance on goal. He just needs to get in these forward positions a bit more. 

I definitely think we could get more out of him if the team was not quite so fragile and being a team attempting to transition from counter attacking to maybe more possession based. 

I do think this is now very much a team in development and include Mykolenko in this.  I am expecting individuals and the team as a collective to improve. Otherwise we really are fucked.

I never saw Mykolenko as an immediate Digne replacement who could instantly take over from him. All in all its been a very unsettling year for him.

[Wiggytop]

It would help Mykolenko to get forward more if Gray would pass to him when he does get forward, then give DCL something to attack.

[Btay]

Mykolenko makes good runs forward but only gets the ball 1 in 10 times. Look at the worldie gray scored against City - he doesn’t get that space in the box if Myko doesn’t make that 50 yard run and take 2 defenders away.

Also against United he was in a good position in their box but unlucky with how quick it came to him.

Absolutely he needs to improve his game going forward but he doesn’t get much reward for the runs he makes.

Stick with him, he’s fighting for the club - the quality will come.

[Bailey]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

 

Would you agree we need some else to give us more of a threat going forward, or are you happy with the way he has been performing. 

We have barely seen anything of him so hard to know. When he has played he has looked livelier going forward than Mykolenko.

Personally I think Mykolenko is poor going forward at this level. He turns the ball over far too often and his quality on the ball lacks more often than not.

[StevO]

8 hours ago, RuffRob said:

I would definitely like to see him overlap a lot more and get further forward - he can deliver a ball and does have a nice strike on him if he gets a chance on goal. He just needs to get in these forward positions a bit more. 

I definitely think we could get more out of him if the team was not quite so fragile and being a team attempting to transition from counter attacking to maybe more possession based. 

I do think this is now very much a team in development and include Mykolenko in this.  I am expecting individuals and the team as a collective to improve. Otherwise we really are fucked.

I never saw Mykolenko as an immediate Digne replacement who could instantly take over from him. All in all its been a very unsettling year for him.

I can’t disagree more with the first bit. Mykolenko can’t cross a ball, and he can’t really shoot for shit. He’s had one good shot in a blue shirt and it was a peach of a stroke. But we all hit a good one every now and then. 

I honestly think Mykolenko knows he can’t cross a ball, and plays it safe and plays it backwards because of it. 
 

I like the lad, he seems like a really nice guy and I would never question his effort. But his ability, especially after having Baines and Digne for so long, it’s just not up to scratch. He’s not an attacking threat, and he’s just about ok at defending. 
 

I’d take Digne back in a heartbeat. 

[RuffRob]

13 hours ago, StevO said:

I can’t disagree more with the first bit. Mykolenko can’t cross a ball, and he can’t really shoot for shit. He’s had one good shot in a blue shirt and it was a peach of a stroke. But we all hit a good one every now and then. 

I honestly think Mykolenko knows he can’t cross a ball, and plays it safe and plays it backwards because of it. 
 

I like the lad, he seems like a really nice guy and I would never question his effort. But his ability, especially after having Baines and Digne for so long, it’s just not up to scratch. He’s not an attacking threat, and he’s just about ok at defending. 
 

I’d take Digne back in a heartbeat. 

Have to agree to disagree then, I think he has shown in parts decent technique for getting crosses in - he just really needs have the confidence and support to be using it more. As others have mentioned it - those final passes to a LB when he gets forward on overlapping runs are simply not happening enough. Grey being particularly guilty of this. 

He crossing ability and offensive contributions in a possession based Kiev team was well documented before he came here. He can do it. Unfortunately, since being here he has not had anywhere near the same opportunities as Baines or Digne had before him - get the ball to an attacking LB was our default attacking option for a long time - this is now not the case. 

It could be argued this is either because the Mykolenko doesn't have it in his locker (but I think he does once we play better and use him more offensively) but equally it could be that he is not getting the ball as much as Digne and Baines did so is not going to get the assist they did. Also, with Dom out most the games Mykolenko has player a player in the box to actually cross to is a rarify. 

I am not saying he is anywhere near as good as Baines or Digne - when both at their prime they where both top 3-4 in the Premier league. I don't expect this lad to be anywhere near this level at this given time. 

I agree the team and this moment in time would benefit from a Digne - but given current situation I wouldn't want the club to go and buy him back now and pay the wages he would be on.

I am happy for the club to stick with him for him to develop with the team. Little point in bring in quality young players if we are not going to give them the time to develop together as a squad. 

Bit premature to writing him off as not 'up to scratch' in comparison to two of the league best LB's. 

[Bailey]

It is players like Mykolenko (and Patterson) that gives me some sympathy for Lampard.

They clearly aren't good enough for this level at the moment but at the same time, there have been plenty of terrible players that have looked competent in this league with good management.

Ill also just add that Mykolenko has played a lot of games. He isn't some young lad like Patterson that has barely played. The level in the Ukraine clearly isn't at PL level and therefore some adaption is expected (should have done so by now IMO) but he isn't the type of player that you would normally expect to improve bundles. He might be young but he has a lot of first team experience.

[StevO]

7 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Have to agree to disagree then, I think he has shown in parts decent technique for getting crosses in - he just really needs have the confidence and support to be using it more. As others have mentioned it - those final passes to a LB when he gets forward on overlapping runs are simply not happening enough. Grey being particularly guilty of this. 

He crossing ability and offensive contributions in a possession based Kiev team was well documented before he came here. He can do it. Unfortunately, since being here he has not had anywhere near the same opportunities as Baines or Digne had before him - get the ball to an attacking LB was our default attacking option for a long time - this is now not the case. 

It could be argued this is either because the Mykolenko doesn't have it in his locker (but I think he does once we play better and use him more offensively) but equally it could be that he is not getting the ball as much as Digne and Baines did so is not going to get the assist they did. Also, with Dom out most the games Mykolenko has player a player in the box to actually cross to is a rarify. 

I am not saying he is anywhere near as good as Baines or Digne - when both at their prime they where both top 3-4 in the Premier league. I don't expect this lad to be anywhere near this level at this given time. 

I agree the team and this moment in time would benefit from a Digne - but given current situation I wouldn't want the club to go and buy him back now and pay the wages he would be on.

I am happy for the club to stick with him for him to develop with the team. Little point in bring in quality young players if we are not going to give them the time to develop together as a squad. 

Bit premature to writing him off as not 'up to scratch' in comparison to two of the league best LB's. 

In 31 games in the premier league he has no assists. 
Digne has four in 29 for Villa. 18 in 113 for Everton.  
 

I hope he improves massively because we’re all in on him. We aren’t getting that money back. 
 

Massive downgrade. You might not like the comparison, but these downgrades around the pitch in recent seasons are why we are where we are. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

In 31 games in the premier league he has no assists. 
Digne has four in 29 for Villa. 18 in 113 for Everton.  
 

 

Villa have had an offer accepted for a LB who was wanted by the manager, story is Digne will soon be surplus to requirements. But will be hard to shift because of his wages, he is the third highest earner in the team behind Courtinio and Martinez. 

[StevO]

Just now, Palfy said:

Villa have had an offer accepted for a LB who was wanted by the manager, story is Digne will soon be surplus to requirements. But will be hard to shift because of his wages, he is the third highest earner in the team behind Courtinio and Martinez. 

I’d love him back here Palfy. A goal threat, can take a set piece too. 
We should try to get him back on loan. 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, StevO said:

I’d love him back here Palfy. A goal threat, can take a set piece too. 
We should try to get him back on loan. 

I wouldn't say no, I was very harsh on him when he left, not because he was a bad player more because the way he pushed for a move, yet said he loved the club and fans. I get he fell out with the manager but think he let the fans and team down. But I would put my grievance to one side and welcome him back, god knows we could do with him.  

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Villa have had an offer accepted for a LB who was wanted by the manager, story is Digne will soon be surplus to requirements. But will be hard to shift because of his wages, he is the third highest earner in the team behind Courtinio and Martinez. 

They've signed him.

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

They've signed him.

Who was it mate. 

[dunlopp9987]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Who was it mate. 

Alex Moreno from Betis

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I wouldn't say know, I was very harsh on him when he left, not because he was a bad player more because the way he pushed for a move, yet said he loved the club and fans. I get he fell out with the manager but think he let the fans and team down. But I would put my grievance to one side and welcome him back, god knows we could do with him.  

I’ll just never understand why we sold him and then sacked Rafa like a week later. Just poor all around. I know they had a falling out, but it’s like upper management wasn’t thinking more than a few days into the future (surprise, surprise). 

[StevO]

39 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

I’ll just never understand why we sold him and then sacked Rafa like a week later. Just poor all around. I know they had a falling out, but it’s like upper management wasn’t thinking more than a few days into the future (surprise, surprise). 

Just another example of the problems at the club. 

[RuffRob]

15 hours ago, StevO said:

In 31 games in the premier league he has no assists. 
Digne has four in 29 for Villa. 18 in 113 for Everton.  
 

I hope he improves massively because we’re all in on him. We aren’t getting that money back. 
 

Massive downgrade. You might not like the comparison, but these downgrades around the pitch in recent seasons are why we are where we are. 

but I am not currently holding Mykolenko in like for like comparison for Digne, who when he played for us was top two or three left back in the Premier league. We purchased both Patterson and Mykolenko for the transfer fee we received for Digne and I would guess wages wise both don't equate to what we where paying Digne.

Young, developing players at half the price are inevitably a 'massive downgrade' - its where we are as a club, the plan being that we hope to see a decent percentage of these young 'downgrades' improve to be the next Digne's etc over a couple of seasons. All these young lads are gambles.

He might come good as a Premiership player, he might not. Like you said we are all in on him now, so I may as well get right behind him. 

 

[Bailey]

13 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

but I am not currently holding Mykolenko in like for like comparison for Digne, who when he played for us was top two or three left back in the Premier league. We purchased both Patterson and Mykolenko for the transfer fee we received for Digne and I would guess wages wise both don't equate to what we where paying Digne.

Young, developing players at half the price are inevitably a 'massive downgrade' - its where we are as a club, the plan being that we hope to see a decent percentage of these young 'downgrades' improve to be the next Digne's etc over a couple of seasons. All these young lads are gambles.

He might come good as a Premiership player, he might not. Like you said we are all in on him now, so I may as well get right behind him. 

 

I completely accept what you are saying and I do agree with you to an extent. I don't believe Mykolenko has the same room for improvement that Patterson does but in the same breath, I expect them both to be better than they are now in a couple of seasons time, even if that is not a lot better. 

The issue for us as a football club, is that we are significantly worse for it. We might have two players for the price of one (wages for Digne were around £120k compared to £86k for the other two combined - Sportrac) but the problem is Mykolenko is a massive downgrade like for like, and Patterson isn't proving to be any better than a rapidly declining Coleman even a year after joining. 

The problem we have had over the many seasons which StevO regularly and rightly points out, is that we have stripped away all the quality players in this squad and replaced them with players who are much worse. That applies to managers too.

Even when you look at Richarlison. His wages of £90k have gone on replacements of £50k for Maupay and £25k for McNeil (again Sportrac). Richarlison is hardly prolific but the other two are far from his level and they don't fit the system we are playing anywhere near as much as Richarlison did.

I know I am going off piste a little here but the more I look at the wages it really is beggars belief.

£100k a week for Tarkowski. He is an average defender who is now one of our top earners. As an example, Coady is on approximately half of that. 

£80k a week for an aging and declining Gueye. I wouldn't have a problem with that if he was a Barry type figure who offered control and leadership but he is nothing like that. He comes from PSG though so his wages were always going to be high.

Onana is on £100k a week despite being a very raw talent with barely any games under his belt. As an example, Ruben Neves is on half that. 

Garner on £30k seems fairly reasonable given his success in the Championship, however that is still over the odds when you compare him to other players that have moved from a top 4 club's academy. Despite being terrible this season, even when fit he can't make it into the starting line-up and doesn't look up to it in the small glimpses we have seen of him just yet, or at least under this management.

The bit I don't understand is that this is under a new DoF and these aren't superstar players from big clubs on big wages like we saw with Digne, Mina, Gomes etc. These are on the whole, players with something to prove or with clear limitations being paid over the odds.

[StevO]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

I completely accept what you are saying and I do agree with you to an extent. I don't believe Mykolenko has the same room for improvement that Patterson does but in the same breath, I expect them both to be better than they are now in a couple of seasons time, even if that is not a lot better. 

The issue for us as a football club, is that we are significantly worse for it. We might have two players for the price of one (wages for Digne were around £120k compared to £86k for the other two combined - Sportrac) but the problem is Mykolenko is a massive downgrade like for like, and Patterson isn't proving to be any better than a rapidly declining Coleman even a year after joining. 

The problem we have had over the many seasons which StevO regularly and rightly points out, is that we have stripped away all the quality players in this squad and replaced them with players who are much worse. That applies to managers too.

Even when you look at Richarlison. His wages of £90k have gone on replacements of £50k for Maupay and £25k for McNeil (again Sportrac). Richarlison is hardly prolific but the other two are far from his level and they don't fit the system we are playing anywhere near as much as Richarlison did.

I know I am going off piste a little here but the more I look at the wages it really is beggars belief.

£100k a week for Tarkowski. He is an average defender who is now one of our top earners. As an example, Coady is on approximately half of that. 

£80k a week for an aging and declining Gueye. I wouldn't have a problem with that if he was a Barry type figure who offered control and leadership but he is nothing like that. He comes from PSG though so his wages were always going to be high.

Onana is on £100k a week despite being a very raw talent with barely any games under his belt. As an example, Ruben Neves is on half that. 

Garner on £30k seems fairly reasonable given his success in the Championship, however that is still over the odds when you compare him to other players that have moved from a top 4 club's academy. Despite being terrible this season, even when fit he can't make it into the starting line-up and doesn't look up to it in the small glimpses we have seen of him just yet, or at least under this management.

The bit I don't understand is that this is under a new DoF and these aren't superstar players from big clubs on big wages like we saw with Digne, Mina, Gomes etc. These are on the whole, players with something to prove or with clear limitations being paid over the odds.

The only wage I don’t have an issue with is Tarkowski, but only because he was free. If he was £20m and on those wages it would be horrible. 

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, StevO said:

The only wage I don’t have an issue with is Tarkowski, but only because he was free. If he was £20m and on those wages it would be horrible. 

Good point, though I think thats a bit more of a complicated argument.

If we signed a player for £20m paid him £50k pw and then sold him for £20m again, we are just paying his wages over that time. As there is a transfer fee, the signing on fee will be "modest". 

If Tarkowski gets sold on then great but if he stays at the club on a big contract and cant be sold on despite our attempts, we are still in the same position as the earlier scenario. Its also very likely that as thete was no transfer fee that he and his agent will have had a much larger signing on fee to start with. 

Like most signings, time will tell!

 

[Romey 1878]

Leeds signing a £30m+ striker, Southampton making signings with potential for decent money, Villa strengthening their squad, Wolves about to spend another £30m on a midfielder after already signing Cuenha.

Meanwhile we apparently need to sell players just to be able loan Elanga... 

[Bailey]

17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Leeds signing a £30m+ striker, Southampton making signings with potential for decent money, Villa strengthening their squad, Wolves about to spend another £30m on a midfielder after already signing Cuenha.

Meanwhile we apparently need to sell players just to be able loan Elanga... 

Surely that cant be true about Elanga as he is on peanuts at Utd. 

It is worrying seeing the other teams strengthen though whilst we are dicking around. I get the feeling any business we do will be last minute once the other teams have sorted their squads and we are trying to pick up the left-overs.

[Palfy]

14 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Leeds signing a £30m+ striker, Southampton making signings with potential for decent money, Villa strengthening their squad, Wolves about to spend another £30m on a midfielder after already signing Cuenha.

Meanwhile we apparently need to sell players just to be able loan Elanga... 

It's a kick in the teeth to the fans who care and love and live this club every day of their lives, to see others improving whilst we decline day by day, with no end insight. 

[Romey 1878]

6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Surely that cant be true about Elanga as he is on peanuts at Utd. 

It is worrying seeing the other teams strengthen though whilst we are dicking around. I get the feeling any business we do will be last minute once the other teams have sorted their squads and we are trying to pick up the left-overs.

I hope it's not or we are in even more shit than any of us thought.

Well that'll just be fantastic won't it. Lets just throw points away as usual while we wait until the last minute.

[Bailey]

Trossard has had a mini fall-out with the Brighton manager... loan to the end of the season?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/frank-lampard-explains-everton-transfer-25968193

[Shukes]

18 hours ago, Bailey said:

Trossard has had a mini fall-out with the Brighton manager... loan to the end of the season?

I would have him in a heart beat! If he became available we should do everything possible le to get him. But I would think that if he moves, he is going higher.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

28 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I would have him in a heart beat! If he became available we should do everything possible le to get him. But I would think that if he moves, he is going higher.

His agent has now released a statement saying he wants to leave Brighton so he looks to be on his way out although I think he will have plenty of better offers than coming to Everton

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[Romey 1878]

5 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

Thanks, Dominic, you're making me feel so much better about things.