Corona Virus

[Matt]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

If the government is insisting they show the games for free they should cover the cost. 

Don’t agree at all. The providers should be allowing payments of smaller quantities over the remainder of the contract. They’ll get their money’s worth and clubs won’t potentially go under. The government should be making the ruling, but they don’t need another excuse to divert hundreds of millions from public services to private, multi billion companies 

[Guest TallPaul1878]

So this new Test and Trace program is being rolled out. You could be contacted to tell you that someone you have met may have exposed you to coronavirus and so you must quarantine for 14 days.

I'm struggling to see how this is going to work because you could be contacted multiple times. What are you supposed to do if you quarantine for a fortnight and then get contacted again?

[Guest TallPaul1878]

Interesting stats coming out with regards to excess deaths over 5 years. So far we are 2nd highest with Spain top and Italy 3rd. All 3 countries quite a way in front of everyone else.

More interestingly is that the US stats for excess deaths is much lower and comparable to Germany. So is the US struggling or is it just Trump Derangement Syndrome amongst certain outlets?

[MikeO]

19 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Interesting stats coming out with regards to excess deaths over 5 years. So far we are 2nd highest with Spain top and Italy 3rd. All 3 countries quite a way in front of everyone else.

More interestingly is that the US stats for excess deaths is much lower and comparable to Germany. So is the US struggling or is it just Trump Derangement Syndrome amongst certain outlets?

If you look at deaths per head of population Belgium is "top" of the league with 82 deaths per 100k people, then Spain with 58 and us with 56, Italy 55, France 43 and the US 30; but if you look at it regionally in America you get New York up at 150. Even then there are different takes on how people come to their numbers ..

"Belgium, for instance, includes deaths where coronavirus was suspected of being present but was never confirmed with a test. Some US states record deaths this way, but not all."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52771783

We'll probably never know the real figures.

[Guest TallPaul1878]

6 minutes ago, MikeO said:

If you look at deaths per head of population Belgium is "top" of the league with 82 deaths per 100k people, then Spain with 58 and us with 56, Italy 55, France 43 and the US 30; but if you look at it regionally in America you get New York up at 150. Even then there are different takes on how people come to their numbers ..

"Belgium, for instance, includes deaths where coronavirus was suspected of being present but was never confirmed with a test. Some US states record deaths this way, but not all."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52771783

We'll probably never know the real figures.

They weren't showing Belgium for some reason, I assumed it was due to population size.

I agree that we will never really know the true figures. You could get hit by a car whilst infected with coronavirus and they would put it on your death certificate. We don't know. I do see anecdotal claims that some people have had relatives die of stroke, heart attack etc and find coronavirus on the death certificate. There's something else at play. Even my own GP is sceptical.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Don’t agree at all. The providers should be allowing payments of smaller quantities over the remainder of the contract. They’ll get their money’s worth and clubs won’t potentially go under. The government should be making the ruling, but they don’t need another excuse to divert hundreds of millions from public services to private, multi billion companies 

The gov is pushing them to play. Why should the TV companies or football clubs cover the cost? 

Football clubs aren't like most other companies, many aren't even run for profit. You'd not be diverting money to a private company but to the players who have been thrown under a bus by the government and are needlessly risking their health for the sake of public entertainment. 

(Personally don't think they should play at all and that the clubs, players and TV companies should come to a compromise.) 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

The gov is pushing them to play. Why should the TV companies or football clubs cover the cost? 

Football clubs aren't like most other companies, many aren't even run for profit. You'd not be diverting money to a private company but to the players who have been thrown under a bus by the government and are needlessly risking their health for the sake of public entertainment. 

(Personally don't think they should play at all and that the clubs, players and TV companies should come to a compromise.) 

I agree with the last part completely, which is why I suggested the money payments for the remainder of the deal should be adjusted rather than what’s being discussed now. 

[Romey 1878]

When I read about the restart date I honestly felt no excitement whatsoever. If I was going to these final games it probably would’ve been different but, as it is, I’m really not arsed. 

[holystove]

13 hours ago, MikeO said:

If you look at deaths per head of population Belgium is "top" of the league with 82 deaths per 100k people, then Spain with 58 and us with 56, Italy 55, France 43 and the US 30; but if you look at it regionally in America you get New York up at 150. Even then there are different takes on how people come to their numbers ..

"Belgium, for instance, includes deaths where coronavirus was suspected of being present but was never confirmed with a test. Some US states record deaths this way, but not all."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52771783

We'll probably never know the real figures.

That's why excess deaths gives the clearest picture because in that case it doesn't matter if covid is on the death certificate.  Yesterday the FT published an article (free to read) based on official numbers of excess deaths.  https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

Hardest hit per capita in Europe :

1. Spain

2. UK

3. Italy

4. Belgium

5. The Netherlands

[Guest TallPaul1878]

I think that coronavirus is with us to stay. South Korea have closed schools again after an explosion of new cases in a matter of days.

https://www.tes.com/news/covid-19-spike-forces-school-closures-south-korea

I really don't know what the answer is. Perhaps we are just going to have to accept it now. It looks like we can't hide from it forever, we need to just make sure our hospitals will be able to cope with the demand and that those who do get infected and recover do get immunity.

[Guest TallPaul1878]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/monkeys-run-away-coronavirus-test-22106238

Monkeys run away with coronavirus test samples after attacking lab technicians and escaping in India.

I can't breathe

[pete0]

 

[Matt]

[MikeO]

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic springs to mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52861993

I thought that the 2m thing was about how far potentially infected "droplets" could travel on a sneeze or a cough from an infected person, as far as I understand it it won't leap more than 1.9m under its own volition. I may be wrong.

Wife is planning to leave the house for the first time in ten weeks tomorrow, and I've bought masks because she'll feel safer. Problem for me has been that I have a permanent cough so have to explain more times than I can recall that it's been there for six years and nothing new.

[Matt]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic springs to mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52861993

I thought that the 2m thing was about how far potentially infected "droplets" could travel on a sneeze or a cough from an infected person, as far as I understand it it won't leap more than 1.9m under its own volition. I may be wrong.

Wife is planning to leave the house for the first time in ten weeks tomorrow, and I've bought masks because she'll feel safer. Problem for me has been that I have a permanent cough so have to explain more times than I can recall that it's been there for six years and nothing new.

So apparently people have started breathing differently?

[Palfy]

11 hours ago, MikeO said:

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic springs to mind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52861993

I thought that the 2m thing was about how far potentially infected "droplets" could travel on a sneeze or a cough from an infected person, as far as I understand it it won't leap more than 1.9m under its own volition. I may be wrong.

Wife is planning to leave the house for the first time in ten weeks tomorrow, and I've bought masks because she'll feel safer. Problem for me has been that I have a permanent cough so have to explain more times than I can recall that it's been there for six years and nothing new.

I new 1-2 weeks ago that we had one of the furthest social distancing rules.

In some ways it feels like a lottery to me on not whether but when you might catch it, because the fear for a big majority of the population has diminished and they have lost all respect for social distancing, just looking at the film on Bournemouth beach yesterday it was rammed. 
So if you venture out now and you have underlying health issues you are pretty much taking your life into your own hands for doing so, not because of your own actions but because of the actions of those you come in contact with. 

[MikeO]

This worked.

 

[Romey 1878]

51 minutes ago, MikeO said:

This worked.

 

You really can’t teach stupid. 

[markjazzbassist]

televangelists are the lowest of the low.  preying on the disabled, sick, and seniors.  

[Sibdane]

If there was a hell then Kenneth Copeland would definitely be going there. 

[markjazzbassist]

4 hours ago, Sibdane said:

If there was a hell then Kenneth Copeland would definitely be going there. 

agreed on both that he would be there and that many biblical scholars now agree the "concept" of hell is incorrect.  hell was an actual place outside of town, it was the trash dump.  when jesus was talking about hell he literally meant "that shitpile over there" in which it was on fire always (burning the trash), and was an awful place of "weeping and gnashing teeth".  not some eternal sin bin.  but i digress...

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

agreed on both that he would be there and that many biblical scholars now agree the "concept" of hell is incorrect.  hell was an actual place outside of town, it was the trash dump.  when jesus was talking about hell he literally meant "that shitpile over there" in which it was on fire always (burning the trash), and was an awful place of "weeping and gnashing teeth".  not some eternal sin bin.  but i digress...

That's really interesting. I've never heard that theory before. 

[Matt]

33 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

That's really interesting. I've never heard that theory before. 

Me neither. I’d love to know the passages that point towards it 

[MikeO]

52 minutes ago, Matt said:

Me neither. I’d love to know the passages that point towards it 

Simpsons Springfield tyre fire probably.

[markjazzbassist]

the word used in the New Testament for hell is gehenna.  This refers to the valley of hinnom, a fiery garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.  
 

The Old Testament contains no reference to hell, only to Sheol which was “the resting place”.

I have grown up in the faith my whole life and something I have realized is that most people are working with translations that are old and extremely inaccurate.  We have modern technology and scholars who come from those regions and cultures (Israel especially) that can give insights.  Instead they just translate to English and treat that English text (once or twice remove from original translation) as inerrant (which it is not).  This is where we get things like hell, or sodom and Gomorrah being about gays (it wasn’t, it was punishment for gang raping and killing a woman).  But just like politics people aren’t interested in the truth, they just want to believe whatever affirms their beliefs.

[holystove]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

I have grown up in the faith my whole life and something I have realized is that most people are working with translations that are old and extremely inaccurate.  We have modern technology and scholars who come from those regions and cultures (Israel especially) that can give insights.  Instead they just translate to English and treat that English text (once or twice remove from original translation) as inerrant (which it is not).  This is where we get things like hell, or sodom and Gomorrah being about gays (it wasn’t, it was punishment for gang raping and killing a woman).  But just like politics people aren’t interested in the truth, they just want to believe whatever affirms their beliefs.

That made me think of a great Bill Hicks bit

"But my Dad's just, “I believe it's the literal word of God”.
And I go, “It's not. I can prove it to you. Give me your Bible”.
He goes and gets his Bible .
“Ok”. I go, “what's that on the front?”
“Holy Bible”.
“What else does it say?”
“King James's Version”.
“There you go”.

(greatest comedian/social critic of our time)

[Formby]

10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

the word used in the New Testament for hell is gehenna.  This refers to the valley of hinnom, a fiery garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.  
 

The Old Testament contains no reference to hell, only to Sheol which was “the resting place”.

I have grown up in the faith my whole life and something I have realized is that most people are working with translations that are old and extremely inaccurate.  We have modern technology and scholars who come from those regions and cultures (Israel especially) that can give insights.  Instead they just translate to English and treat that English text (once or twice remove from original translation) as inerrant (which it is not).  This is where we get things like hell, or sodom and Gomorrah being about gays (it wasn’t, it was punishment for gang raping and killing a woman).  But just like politics people aren’t interested in the truth, they just want to believe whatever affirms their beliefs.

There are, from recollection, two words for hell in the Bible - one is Sheol, one is Hades. One is the place of the dead, the other refers to Gehenna which was the physical rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. Hell in an everlasting damnation sense comes from this. The fires of Gehenna are the personification (or, more properly, a metaphor) of the fires of hell, not the literal hell.

Jesus speaks about it most clearly in Mark 9. 

[holystove]

This thread took a strange turn 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, holystove said:

This thread took a strange turn 

I agree I had to check what thread I was in. 
But I must say I’m pleased to hear there’s no hell, I will sleep a lot better now

[markjazzbassist]

12 hours ago, Formby said:

There are, from recollection, two words for hell in the Bible - one is Sheol, one is Hades. One is the place of the dead, the other refers to Gehenna which was the physical rubbish dump outside Jerusalem. Hell in an everlasting damnation sense comes from this. The fires of Gehenna are the personification (or, more properly, a metaphor) of the fires of hell, not the literal hell.

Jesus speaks about it most clearly in Mark 9. 

That’s the most common interpretation, but one as I said that has been questioned more and more by modern theologians.  Agree to disagree.