Kevin Thelwell (Director of Football)

[Palfy]

On 18/08/2023 at 07:08, patto said:

At last a DOF that looks like he knows what he’s doing. 
he’s restricted but doing the best he can to get us out the mess we are in. 

Trying your best is a minimum requirement you would expect from anyone working for the club, what we need to see is whether his best is good enough and for me the jury is still very much out on that.  

[patto]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Trying your best is a minimum requirement you would expect from anyone working for the club, what we need to see is whether his best is good enough and for me the jury is still very much out on that.  

If you havnt got the money it's hard to show your hand fully.

The players we are trying to bring in at the moment are where we are at the moment 2years fighting relegation doesn't get you top players.

[Btay]

I think he is doing a good job at the moment in incredibly difficult circumstances. If he can pull off the Beto deal with the buy now pay later structure then fair play to him.

Hopefully he can add a decent CB on loan & maybe a winger. Surely Chelsea have some players looking for minutes...

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Btay said:

I think he is doing a good job at the moment in incredibly difficult circumstances. If he can pull off the Beto deal with the buy now pay later structure then fair play to him.

Hopefully he can add a decent CB on loan & maybe a winger. Surely Chelsea have some players looking for minutes...

I'm going to save judgement until I see how these acquisitions turn out. 

[Btay]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

I'm going to save judgement until I see how these acquisitions turn out. 

Which is fair but "if' we get Beto I would this window has been a 6.5/7 out of 10. Better than expected. Young is just about the only one that concerns me at the moment but hopefully he has a better performance next time.

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Btay said:

Which is fair but "if' we get Beto I would this window has been a 6.5/7 out of 10. Better than expected. Young is just about the only one that concerns me at the moment but hopefully he has a better performance next time.

On paper completely agree. Reality is what matters though. 

[Palfy]

What is evident about this transfer window is we have only bought one player a young lad for 15m with potential who may or may not make it. Then we have Young a freebie who is well past his sell by date, and won’t be here next season, then we have Danjuma on loan with no option should be a good addition to help us secure our PL status this season unless of course FFP rules breaches don’t put the kibosh on that, then we have Harrison on loan with no option he’s the one I’m most looking forward to seeing play I think he will be our biggest asset this season. But what concerns me the most is we haven’t brought in players for the long term or with options to buy so come May what ever we build will all come crashing down again, I put no blame at the door of Thelwell or Dyche they can only do what they can with what they have, but for me this is just a one season team in the hope of staying up and fortunes changing in the financial sense next season so we can rebuild for the long term, and if next season our finances are still shot we will again be trying to survive on freebie’s and loan signings and that will carry on until the finances dictate otherwise. So not really jumping for joy at our transfer window it’s not a transfer window with a long term plan, but it is a transfer window for patching over the cracks short term, and beggars can’t be choosers. 

[Shukes]

Or or is a window with a long term plan, and that plan is to establish a working financial base. 
You’re right what you are saying that it is a surprise that we don’t have deals in place for these loans. But Harrison for example can be a case of, we have a good season and he feels like a good fit. That could be what persuades him to join us.. this could also depend on the season that Leeds have of course.

Danjuma is travelling around a lot so o think his deal is the correct one. 
 

Chermititi could be a very good long term signing.

Young has had a difficult start to this season, but is 100% only a stop gap support player.

Beto is only 25 and is also a player that could be here for a good few years if it works.

Thelwel could also have a plan with the youngsters and may not want to block their pathways.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

What is evident about this transfer window is we have only bought one player a young lad for 15m with potential who may or may not make it. Then we have Young a freebie who is well past his sell by date, and won’t be here next season, then we have Danjuma on loan with no option should be a good addition to help us secure our PL status this season unless of course FFP rules breaches don’t put the kibosh on that, then we have Harrison on loan with no option he’s the one I’m most looking forward to seeing play I think he will be our biggest asset this season. But what concerns me the most is we haven’t brought in players for the long term or with options to buy so come May what ever we build will all come crashing down again, I put no blame at the door of Thelwell or Dyche they can only do what they can with what they have, but for me this is just a one season team in the hope of staying up and fortunes changing in the financial sense next season so we can rebuild for the long term, and if next season our finances are still shot we will again be trying to survive on freebie’s and loan signings and that will carry on until the finances dictate otherwise. So not really jumping for joy at our transfer window it’s not a transfer window with a long term plan, but it is a transfer window for patching over the cracks short term, and beggars can’t be choosers. 

We do have an option on Harrison and can’t make it permanent at any point in the season. 
Looks like we’ll have spent £25m on Beto by Tuesday too. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

We do have an option on Harrison and can’t make it permanent at any point in the season. 
Looks like we’ll have spent £25m on Beto by Tuesday too. 

Didn’t realise we had an option on Harrison so that’s a big plus like I said I think he will turn out to be the pick of the signings to date. Do you have any idea of how the option is made up.  

[Bailey]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

Or or is a window with a long term plan, and that plan is to establish a working financial base. 
You’re right what you are saying that it is a surprise that we don’t have deals in place for these loans. But Harrison for example can be a case of, we have a good season and he feels like a good fit. That could be what persuades him to join us.. this could also depend on the season that Leeds have of course.

Danjuma is travelling around a lot so o think his deal is the correct one. 
 

Chermititi could be a very good long term signing.

Young has had a difficult start to this season, but is 100% only a stop gap support player.

Beto is only 25 and is also a player that could be here for a good few years if it works.

Thelwel could also have a plan with the youngsters and may not want to block their pathways.

This.

We are restructuring our finances in respect of the playing side of the club so that in the years to come we can build from a good base on good wages, rather than desperately needing to sell to buy both on fees and wages as well. 

[Goodison Glory]

This is def a holding season. Our FFP accounts are still shouldering a loss-making year of around 150M, plus -45M and a report break even (last year).

So just surviving this year and doing it prudently will make a massive difference for FFP as we will be down to approximately 40-60 in losses over a 3-year period...against an allowable 115M. 

 

[Palfy]

47 minutes ago, Goodison Glory said:

This is def a holding season. Our FFP accounts are still shouldering a loss-making year of around 150M, plus -45M and a report break even (last year).

So just surviving this year and doing it prudently will make a massive difference for FFP as we will be down to approximately 40-60 in losses over a 3-year period...against an allowable 115M. 

 

But we are being investigated on the years not including the one we have just entered. 

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But we are being investigated on the years not including the one we have just entered. 

Which we've been told by the league we were line with (initially). Going forward we'll be in a much more positive position. 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Which we've been told by the league we were line with (initially). Going forward we'll be in a much more positive position. 

So why have the league charged us if let’s say the 3 years from 19/20-21/22 were in line with their guidelines, or is that just what the club would like us to believe and not a pubic statement from the league. I’m assuming they couldn’t be including 22/23 because that season was only mid way through so the losses wouldn’t be known, and the season 23/24 has just started. This is all very confusing.  

[Matt]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

So why have the league charged us if let’s say the 3 years from 19/20-21/22 were in line with their guidelines, or is that just what the club would like us to believe and not a pubic statement from the league. I’m assuming they couldn’t be including 22/23 because that season was only mid way through so the losses wouldn’t be known, and the season 23/24 has just started. This is all very confusing.  

That's what the inquiry is sure to be about, as much as the books. How can we have been under special measures where the league were signing off on the deals? It is indeed all very confusing...

[Shukes]

We haven’t been charged yet. It’s under an independent investigation. 
The league are panicking at the moment because if we are found guilty, they will be questioned themselves as they were meant to be overlooking any transactions made. 
 

It’s all a bit messy and either us or them are going to come out of this looking really bad.

[Palfy]

16 minutes ago, Shukes said:

We haven’t been charged yet. It’s under an independent investigation. 
The league are panicking at the moment because if we are found guilty, they will be questioned themselves as they were meant to be overlooking any transactions made. 
 

It’s all a bit messy and either us or them are going to come out of this looking really bad.

But it was the league who ordered the investigation so even more confusing that they would do that. 

[Shukes]

8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But it was the league who ordered the investigation so even more confusing that they would do that. 

Was it their idea though or are they responding from other clubs complaints and sending it out.

Its more and more confusing the more you look into it.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Was it their idea though or are they responding from other clubs complaints and sending it out.

Its more and more confusing the more you look into it.

It is mate can’t get my head around it. 

[Newty82]

The league could be asking for independent investigation so that they can check their processes and learn some lessons too.

That's not an unheard of thing for big companies to do.

However, I also feel there's fuck all yo worry about. Multiple teams are in the same boat. Man City supposedly have 115 charges hanging over their heads. Fuck all has happened to them.

[Palfy]

34 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

The league could be asking for independent investigation so that they can check their processes and learn some lessons too.

That's not an unheard of thing for big companies to do.

However, I also feel there's fuck all yo worry about. Multiple teams are in the same boat. Man City supposedly have 115 charges hanging over their heads. Fuck all has happened to them.

Things never go that easy for us, when someone decides someone needs a kicking we are going to get kicked. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

The league could be asking for independent investigation so that they can check their processes and learn some lessons too.

That's not an unheard of thing for big companies to do.

However, I also feel there's fuck all yo worry about. Multiple teams are in the same boat. Man City supposedly have 115 charges hanging over their heads. Fuck all has happened to them.

They make the league a lot of money though. 

[Goodison Glory]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

But we are being investigated on the years not including the one we have just entered. 

Agreed. That is not what I was commenting on. I was commenting on why we are not spending money now. If we have another good year, then a bad year (the COVID ones) drops off and a good one (this year) gets added....let's say break even** and then we are in a good spot

** I say break even as last year we had some key sales (Gordon/Kean) but this year we've not sold anyone of note but we've not spent anything either and wage bill continues to be lowered.

[Goodison Glory]

There are two different issues at play. Hisorical Losses and How our Books look now.

19/20 = 140M loss

20/21 = 121M loss

21/22 = 45M loss

22/23 = Not final but reports I've read are projecting break even.

**Note: 19/20 & 20/21 are the years that were averaged because of COVID.

So we are being investigated because the 3 year rolling period (4 years due to COVID) is massively above the Prem Threshold.

We explained our case to the Prem about all the deductions (Loss of Rev for COVID, loss of player sales etc) and they were happy with it. Case Closed....or we thought it was. Then when the league started getting pressure from the GOV we were referred to an independent review - what is under scrutiny is how legitimate our "Exaggerated COVID" losses are.

So in terms of past years...yes still very much under scrutiny and our numbers are appalling,

Looking ahead, the frugality we have seen is helping to say to the powers that be - yes, but we are being very responsibly ran now, so can we have a slap on the wrist instead.

Looking ahead, the 2 really shitty years are about to fall off the FFP radar.

That's my take. 

 

 

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Things never go that easy for us, when someone decides someone needs a kicking we are going to get kicked. 

I think the victim mindset is very much one of the cultural issues at this club.

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

They make the league a lot of money though. 

They do. But if something was to happen to us, we'd be able to point at them and ask 'How come...'

[Goodison Glory]

it would have looked a lot better if by October we could have said "our books the last 2-3 years have been much better, and we got rid of all the imbeciles who got us into that situation" alas we will be left with Bill explaining his way through the shite.

[StevO]

10 hours ago, Palfy said:

Didn’t realise we had an option on Harrison so that’s a big plus like I said I think he will turn out to be the pick of the signings to date. Do you have any idea of how the option is made up.  

Not a clue mate, sorry. Just remember hearing there is an option and it being specified that we can take it at any time. 

[Goodison Glory]

33 minutes ago, StevO said:

Not a clue mate, sorry. Just remember hearing there is an option and it being specified that we can take it at any time. 

16M is what I read and we can trigger it at any time. It's a relegation release clause from the contract he signed in Jan. It's not a clause specific to our loan agreement.