Kevin Thelwell (Director of Football)

[Bailey]

10 hours ago, Palfy said:

I would also want to know for all the reasons above, why we made him our third most expensive signing after Gylfi and Richarlison, what clown negotiated that deal as a good deal, surely it had to be Thelwell who sat round the table with Onana's team, and Lille representatives. Firstly agreeing a fee of 33.5 million and secondly agreeing Onana's contract. If this would have been Walsh who presided over this deal he would have been slaughtered, why not Thelwell. 

By all accounts West Ham brokered the deal and we paid the asking price.

I think it is early days to be too critical of the fee itself as in the long term it might work out for him here but I do feel the wage is well out of line with where he should be in the squads wage structure. In fact wasn't that one of the things Thelwell claimed he was going to come in and sort?

[Palfy]

26 minutes ago, Bailey said:

By all accounts West Ham brokered the deal and we paid the asking price.

I think it is early days to be too critical of the fee itself as in the long term it might work out for him here but I do feel the wage is well out of line with where he should be in the squads wage structure. In fact wasn't that one of the things Thelwell claimed he was going to come in and sort?

Didn't Brands say the same thing, with my first job is to cut the spiralling wages bill, and all he did was nearly double it. 

[Bailey]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

Didn't Brands say the same thing, with my first job is to cut the spiralling wages bill, and all he did was nearly double it. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesnalton/2022/07/02/marcel-brands-reveals-everton-difficulties-and-clashes-with-owner-farhad-moshiri/

This probably highlights the issue as to why it continued. 

Its also a reason why Thelwell's performance will need an asterix next to it. It feels like he has more control than Brands did, but only those inside the club really know.

[Quinn31]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesnalton/2022/07/02/marcel-brands-reveals-everton-difficulties-and-clashes-with-owner-farhad-moshiri/

This probably highlights the issue as to why it continued. 

Its also a reason why Thelwell's performance will need an asterix next to it. It feels like he has more control than Brands did, but only those inside the club really know.

Really think Brands + Silva could've been a good long-term partnership. Think they saw eye to eye on a lot and SIlva is a good manager, but it was a lot of pressure to be under when we were sat near relegation in December (Plus sounds like Ancelotti must've been willing to come, satisfying Moshiri's desire for a "Hollywood manager". Once Carlo came in, it was always going to be overspending on brand name players from Champions League clubs (Allan, James Rodriguez, etc) -- no room for Brands to control player acquistion or keep a disciplined wage structure in place

My thoughts on all the combos:

Koeman + Walsh: Was never going to lead to great things, but Koeman was the worst panic sacking of them all (sacked in October, right?). HIm and Walsh had different ideas + Moshiri was meddling about (Rooney), it was a big vacuum to fill with Lukaku's departure. Again, feel bad for Koeman as he was the first panic sacking of the Moshiri era and it set us down this road (five years ago now), but don't have a ton of faith in Walsh and not sure Koeman really has "vision" to build a team (nor the charisma/personal skills to manage a dressing room over the long term - probably the definition of a "coach" rather than "manager")

Silva + Brands: This one had potential. Young, progressive coach with more of a continental mindset that would've let Brands focus on acquiring younger players, "value" in the market, and building a coherent team philosophy

Ancelotti + Brands: I have fondness for Carlo but this is what put us on the road to FFP difficulties... We tried to hard to bat beyond our financial firepower, bring in a hollywood manager and all his brand name signings... Now we're suffering and have one hand tied behind our back

Benitez + Brands: I feel bad Rafa was stuck with practically zero transfer budget, however he took a squad that was midtable the prior year (albeit finishing on a low note) into a relegation battle whilst seemingly feuding with everyone at the club. Was never going to work.

Lampard + Thelwell: Both Lampard and Thelwell have at least one hand tied behind their back with the mess of a roster they have and without the financial power of Ancelotti and earlier's reign. I'm starting to have serious doubts about Lampard as a coach, but again he's stepped into an incredibly tough situation. Time will tell with Thelwell, I hope he's given a chance and can sort this out with our Premier League status in tact, but I'm starting to give up hope on tha as well.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

Really think Brands + Silva could've been a good long-term partnership. Think they saw eye to eye on a lot and SIlva is a good manager, but it was a lot of pressure to be under when we were sat near relegation in December (Plus sounds like Ancelotti must've been willing to come, satisfying Moshiri's desire for a "Hollywood manager". Once Carlo came in, it was always going to be overspending on brand name players from Champions League clubs (Allan, James Rodriguez, etc) -- no room for Brands to control player acquistion or keep a disciplined wage structure in place

My thoughts on all the combos:

Koeman + Walsh: Was never going to lead to great things, but Koeman was the worst panic sacking of them all (sacked in October, right?). HIm and Walsh had different ideas + Moshiri was meddling about (Rooney), it was a big vacuum to fill with Lukaku's departure. Again, feel bad for Koeman as he was the first panic sacking of the Moshiri era and it set us down this road (five years ago now), but don't have a ton of faith in Walsh and not sure Koeman really has "vision" to build a team (nor the charisma/personal skills to manage a dressing room over the long term - probably the definition of a "coach" rather than "manager")

Silva + Brands: This one had potential. Young, progressive coach with more of a continental mindset that would've let Brands focus on acquiring younger players, "value" in the market, and building a coherent team philosophy

Ancelotti + Brands: I have fondness for Carlo but this is what put us on the road to FFP difficulties... We tried to hard to bat beyond our financial firepower, bring in a hollywood manager and all his brand name signings... Now we're suffering and have one hand tied behind our back

Benitez + Brands: I feel bad Rafa was stuck with practically zero transfer budget, however he took a squad that was midtable the prior year (albeit finishing on a low note) into a relegation battle whilst seemingly feuding with everyone at the club. Was never going to work.

Lampard + Thelwell: Both Lampard and Thelwell have at least one hand tied behind their back with the mess of a roster they have and without the financial power of Ancelotti and earlier's reign. I'm starting to have serious doubts about Lampard as a coach, but again he's stepped into an incredibly tough situation. Time will tell with Thelwell, I hope he's given a chance and can sort this out with our Premier League status in tact, but I'm starting to give up hope on tha as well.

I also think when you come to Everton you come with expectations, and if you don't meet those expectations you very soon get slaughtered by the media, more so than if you were at many other clubs in the league. More so because we are a big club with a fantastic history, who has this never been relegated since 1951 tag, and continuously compared to Liverpool, and now we have an owner who reacts constantly to the media pressure surrounding us by constantly sacking managers as a way of trying to control the assault on the club from the media who are thriving on our poor fortunes. And you are very possibly right on all you have said about our managers and DoF, but unfortunately we have owner who reacts wrongly to pressure ramped up by the media. 

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

Really think Brands + Silva could've been a good long-term partnership. Think they saw eye to eye on a lot and SIlva is a good manager, but it was a lot of pressure to be under when we were sat near relegation in December (Plus sounds like Ancelotti must've been willing to come, satisfying Moshiri's desire for a "Hollywood manager". Once Carlo came in, it was always going to be overspending on brand name players from Champions League clubs (Allan, James Rodriguez, etc) -- no room for Brands to control player acquistion or keep a disciplined wage structure in place

My thoughts on all the combos:

Koeman + Walsh: Was never going to lead to great things, but Koeman was the worst panic sacking of them all (sacked in October, right?). HIm and Walsh had different ideas + Moshiri was meddling about (Rooney), it was a big vacuum to fill with Lukaku's departure. Again, feel bad for Koeman as he was the first panic sacking of the Moshiri era and it set us down this road (five years ago now), but don't have a ton of faith in Walsh and not sure Koeman really has "vision" to build a team (nor the charisma/personal skills to manage a dressing room over the long term - probably the definition of a "coach" rather than "manager")

Silva + Brands: This one had potential. Young, progressive coach with more of a continental mindset that would've let Brands focus on acquiring younger players, "value" in the market, and building a coherent team philosophy

Ancelotti + Brands: I have fondness for Carlo but this is what put us on the road to FFP difficulties... We tried to hard to bat beyond our financial firepower, bring in a hollywood manager and all his brand name signings... Now we're suffering and have one hand tied behind our back

Benitez + Brands: I feel bad Rafa was stuck with practically zero transfer budget, however he took a squad that was midtable the prior year (albeit finishing on a low note) into a relegation battle whilst seemingly feuding with everyone at the club. Was never going to work.

Lampard + Thelwell: Both Lampard and Thelwell have at least one hand tied behind their back with the mess of a roster they have and without the financial power of Ancelotti and earlier's reign. I'm starting to have serious doubts about Lampard as a coach, but again he's stepped into an incredibly tough situation. Time will tell with Thelwell, I hope he's given a chance and can sort this out with our Premier League status in tact, but I'm starting to give up hope on tha as well.

I think that is a really good assessment of what has happened over the years.

I do think some of the signings before Ancelotti also tipped the FFP scales but many of those expensive signings were successful (Digne, Richarlison, Mina) or had reasonable excuses (Gbamin, Gomes, also Mina). Like you say though, it felt like they had a similar vision for the club if they could have been left to their work.

[plaidharper]

What is his guy doing? Halfway through January...

If waiting until after West Ham was the plan it is not a very good one...

[Hafnia]

26 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

What is his guy doing? Halfway through January...

If waiting until after West Ham was the plan it is not a very good one...

What is this guy allowed to do would be my question. 

[plaidharper]

40 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

What is this guy allowed to do would be my question. 

Will we ever learn... Brands 2.0 I guess

[RuffRob]

I find it hard to judge many employed at the club, we just don't know under what constraints they are working under financially and interfering wise from above. Looking in from the outside, there must be a fair degree on anxiety working at Everton, the microscope everybody is under is massive, and increase week by week.

 

 

[Bailey]

It feels like he has a lot more control than Brands did. None of the summer signings had Mohsiri's fingerprints on them and let's face it, everyone he would like us to buy, we can't afford. 

The program notes specifically mentioned that we are in the market for attacking players so I don't expect her to say that if things are not in the pipeline.

Its just frustrating that the two games we would have loved to introduce some fresh faces into will have passed by the time anyone arrives.

[plaidharper]

 

[Romey 1878]

I wonder what point of his 120 point plan we're on.

[Hafnia]

7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I wonder what point of his 120 point plan we're on.

1. Where applicable apportion blame or attention elsewhere. Careful planning must be made when doing something or sitting on your hands where you can take focus away from the people responsible.

 

 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I wonder what point of his 120 point plan we're on.

Hopefully 40 by the end of this season. 

[Romey 1878]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Hopefully 40 by the end of this season. 

Not a chance.

[RuffRob]

https://www.footballinsider247.com/everton-brighton-sargeson-deal-agreed-sources/

This could be a positive appointment. Brighton are the current golden boys of 'talent' spotting - so some of that more than welcome here

[Matt]

Feels a bit like Walsh to me but we will see. 

[Romey 1878]

There is also this

 

[Btay]

If it means we start following their recent transfer success I am all for it.

[RuffRob]

On 09/02/2023 at 08:39, Matt said:

Feels a bit like Walsh to me but we will see. 

Walsh who was trying to get us to sign Harland? As long as the people who employ him actually listen to his advice, is the main thing.  

[Matt]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Walsh who was trying to get us to sign Harland? As long as the people who employ him actually listen to his advice, is the main thing.  

Exactly my point. 

[patto]

I just hope this is a Thelwell appointment and not Moshiri. 
but I think in all the shambles it’s time Thelwell raised his head and gave us some hope about the future regardless of how it plays out. 

[RuffRob]

https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2023/6/26/23772826/everton-2022-23-season-review-director-of-football-report-card-how-did-kevin-thelwell-do-moshiri

This write up is probably a fair reflection.

Very difficult to judge a DoF on a single year especially when he is coming in to a shit storm that only grew worse over the  season. Financial woes and just a bad vibe around the place - make it a fairly tough gig at the moment.

 

 

[Romey 1878]

 

[Goodison Glory]

On 12/08/2023 at 10:04, Romey 1878 said:

 

If that isn't his focus then what the f**k are we paying you for. Talk about stating the bloody obvious. 

[patto]

At last a DOF that looks like he knows what he’s doing. 
he’s restricted but doing the best he can to get us out the mess we are in. 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, patto said:

At last a DOF that looks like he knows what he’s doing. 
he’s restricted but doing the best he can to get us out the mess we are in. 

Or, at last a DOF allowed to do their job...

[Newty82]

Reserve judgement until we've seen more actual evidence rather than click bait.

Of course, the hope is always there!

[patto]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Or, at last a DOF allowed to do their job...

Exactly yes