markjazzbassist Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I blame hafnia. His negativity towards Lukaku drove Barkley away. i second that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I blame hafnia. His negativity towards Lukaku drove Barkley away. Haha it's because of Barkleys stats against top teams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 No, your right we don't know.... so let's blame Barkley. I've blamed Barkley for refusing to sign the contract- who else would you like to blame for that Shukes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I've blamed Barkley for refusing to sign the contract- who else would you like to blame for that Shukes? No idea. I have no idea what contract he was offered, how much for, length, bonuses etc. I'm not Itk like you Pad. I prefer blame both party's for now until I hear otherwise. If you would only share the details... then I could make an informed decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 No idea. I have no idea what contract he was offered, how much for, length, bonuses etc. I'm not Itk like you Pad. I prefer blame both party's for now until I hear otherwise. If you would only share the details... then I could make an informed decision. Muted 100 grand, Koeman said there was a "very good" offer on the table. That in itself is enough for me to believe the contract was a good one. He's refused to sign it, whether that is for money, personal reasons, champions league football or he wants a move away from the city is anyones guess but Barkley is the master of his own destiny, he's the only one who can sign the contract. I'm absolutely certain the club are not to blame in this- they've done what they can, offered him the best deal possible, the managers publicly stated he wants him to stay. There's no more they can do, the ball is firmly in Barkleys court and he's put it up his jumper and fucked off with it. Haiku, nutmegwolf203 and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Muted 100 grand, Koeman said there was a "very good" offer on the table. That in itself is enough for me to believe the contract was a good one. He's refused to sign it, whether that is for money, personal reasons, champions league football or he wants a move away from the city is anyones guess but Barkley is the master of his own destiny, he's the only one who can sign the contract. I'm absolutely certain the club are not to blame in this- they've done what they can, offered him the best deal possible, the managers publicly stated he wants him to stay. There's no more they can do, the ball is firmly in Barkleys court and he's put it up his jumper and fucked off with it. Frankly, you have no idea. Neither do I. Neither does Shukes. Neither do the journos. Neither do the talking heads. In the absence of concrete information, we all make stuff up. Maybe the club has been blameless, but maybe Barkley has been blameless. Maybe we should just blame the club, or perhaps we should just blame Barkley. Maybe the real Barkley was abducted by aliens and replaced with a zombie. Maybe Haf's views on Lukaku really do lie at the heart of it all. "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.’ Sherlock Holmes, A Scandal in Bohemia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 What he said haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Frankly, you have no idea. Neither do I. Neither does Shukes. Neither do the journos. Neither do the talking heads. In the absence of concrete information, we all make stuff up. Maybe the club has been blameless, but maybe Barkley has been blameless. Maybe we should just blame the club, or perhaps we should just blame Barkley. Maybe the real Barkley was abducted by aliens and replaced with a zombie. Maybe Haf's views on Lukaku really do lie at the heart of it all. "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. Sherlock Holmes, A Scandal in Bohemia. Koeman has an idea though and he has said there is a very good offer on the table and the board have done everything they can to keep him. I'll stickwith what he's saying. This is the last I'm going to say on this as I'm just constantly repeating and regurgitating the same things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Let's restate some pertinent facts... Koeman was publically calling Barkley out last season. At the time I thought it was harsh and odd. Disagree? "I don't like it when a player blames others. First you have to look at yourself. Maybe Ross didn't play his best when Sam Allardyce was in the stadium." - Ronald Koeman, August 2016 "Ross needs to be the key player between defenders and strikers. You look at his qualities and his position is to create. In all aspects he needs to improve but he is still a young player, no question. - Ronald Koeman, September 2016 "I understand the expectation. He is a boy from the club. Of course he is someone I can see improve. I am really involved in his process. Of course. But, finally, it is up to the player. We can support, we can help, we can show clips. But. finally? It is the player." - Ronald Koeman, November 2016 "Of course the player needs to improve. He needs to improve the tactical aspect of his football, out of his position. He needs to be more clinical and have more creativity in the offensive part of the team.' - Ronald Koeman, December 2016 "I spoke about this (the criticism) with Ross. He mentioned that it is always about him." -Ronald Koeman, February 2017 So.... the final bit.... barkley basically told koeman he was sick of being picked on. Koeman confirmed it himself. Ahhh but he offered him a "good contract" in April... whilst it was known we had tried to sign gylfi in the previous window. Sorry but anyone who doesn't see that Ross has had his nose pushed out and is feeling somewhat unloved maybe needs to put themselves in his shoes. He gets shit off fans, shit off the manager, the England nobheads seem to join in with it. Surely he won't be missed with him being such a frustrating player? Maybe he needs to just suck it up and get on with it..... but isnt that what he's done? Told the manager he's not signing and not bitched to the press. Edited July 31, 2017 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Let's restate some pertinent facts... Koeman was publically calling Barkley out last season. At the time I thought it was harsh and odd. Disagree? "I don't like it when a player blames others. First you have to look at yourself. Maybe Ross didn't play his best when Sam Allardyce was in the stadium." - Ronald Koeman, August 2016 "Ross needs to be the key player between defenders and strikers. You look at his qualities and his position is to create. In all aspects he needs to improve but he is still a young player, no question. - Ronald Koeman, September 2016 "I understand the expectation. He is a boy from the club. Of course he is someone I can see improve. I am really involved in his process. Of course. But, finally, it is up to the player. We can support, we can help, we can show clips. But. finally? It is the player." - Ronald Koeman, November 2016 "Of course the player needs to improve. He needs to improve the tactical aspect of his football, out of his position. He needs to be more clinical and have more creativity in the offensive part of the team.' - Ronald Koeman, December 2016 "I spoke about this (the criticism) with Ross. He mentioned that it is always about him." -Ronald Koeman, February 2017 So.... the final bit.... barkley basically told koeman he was sick of being picked on. Koeman confirmed it himself. Ahhh but he offered him a "good contract" in April... whilst it was known we had tried to sign gylfi in the previous window. Sorry but anyone who doesn't see that Ross has had his nose pushed out and is feeling somewhat unloved maybe needs to put themselves in his shoes. He gets shit off fans, shit off the manager, the England nobheads seem to join in with it. Surely he won't be missed with him being such a frustrating player? Maybe he needs to just suck it up and get on with it..... but isnt that what he's done? Told the manager he's not signing and not bitched to the press. ???????? bravo Haf best post I've read in a while straight to the point backed up by facts. Barkley has been pushed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Couple of interesting articles with quotes from the time (and a 3rd that shows that maybe the rumblings aren't new). 1st question... why only 4 years, why not a 5 year contract? http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/i-know-how-fans-felt-when-rooney-left-ross-barkley-on-why-he-signed-new-four-year-everton-deal-9637314.html Why would someone who wants to stay at the club and become a great not sign a contract straight away? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/roberto-martinez-ross-barkley-everton-contract Maybe Ross has had his mind made up for a long time... http://www.football365.com/news/everton-worried-as-barkley-stalls-on-deal-talks-report I know as little as anyone else on here - won't pretend to know anything on this matter either. I will reiterate that I want Ross to stay. Has Ross had his mind made up for a long time? Is Koeman driving him out or is this something that precedes Koeman's EFC era? Have Koeman's action saved face for the club with a player he knows wants to leave? Whatever has happened, it looks like Barkley's EFC career is nearing the end which is a huge contrast to what 'his vision' was in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I find it hard to believe the club wouldn't have tried to enter talks before Koeman come to the club. Why would they wait so long with one of our best youth prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 If he wanted to stay why didn't he push for a contract. He hasn't said anything, he hasn't done anything, he hasn't signed the contract, you can't blame the club for this scenario, it's Barkley's own doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 If he wanted to stay why didn't he push for a contract. He hasn't said anything, he hasn't done anything, he hasn't signed the contract, you can't blame the club for this scenario, it's Barkley's own doing. Again yet more conjecture ... how do you know this Bill? How do you know his representatives never asked for talks last year? Fact is you don't. The only person who talks about Barkley is Koeman... given his repetitive critical sound bites over the last year I find it difficult to believe that koeman doesnt want barkley for anything other than an option off the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 In all of those snippets, it emphasises that Koeman thinks Barkley can do more. Be pushed more. Improve as a player. It also sounds like Ross is pissed off with people thinking he can do more. He probably does feel unloved, because he thinks what he has done is "enough". But when you're that inconsitant and have room to improve, you can't throw your dummy out when someone tries to better you. efc1111 and Sparks FC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 And someone's interpretation of sound bites, isn't fact @Hafnia @MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 The way he played didn't look like he was playing for a contract to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 And someone's interpretation of sound bites, isn't fact @Hafnia @MC11 No.... the quotes themselves are facts.... facts that koeman spoke critically of the lad at least once per month. Did any other player get this treatment? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 No.... the quotes themselves are facts.... facts that koeman spoke critically of the lad at least once per month. Did any other player get this treatment? No. Has anyour other player had as many questions asked of him at press conferences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks FC Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Arguably the most critical of Koeman's comments came at the end of 2016. From September through to December Ross had 2 assists to his name in the league and played pretty much started all those games bar 2. Mirallas had 1 assist, half the minutes. Bolassie had 4 and injured for the same period. He who shant be named had 3 (plus 10 goals). Couple from the rest of the squad, but yeah, he deserved to be asked the question. And each time, Koeman didn't treat him like Niasse, he was talking up his potential as being better than his current ability and performance in a lot of those pressers. Re: gilfi in Jan, what was Koeman supposed to do? not look at improving the squad to keep Ross happy? Koeman gets harsher on him, Ross dramatically improves in Jan / Feb. He needed the kick up the arse, and he performed better for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Has anyour other player had as many questions asked of him at press conferences? That's my view. These comments are always in response to a question. Koeman doesn't, to my knowledge, bring up Barkley but when he's asked questions he answers them earnestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 I don't think anyone's saying we shouldn't be trying to improve the squad. Of course we should. People are just pointing out the facts that's all. Right or wrong, Ross was publically criticised. Would that work for yourself personally? Or would you prefer your washing to be kept private? Each person is different. The best man managers see this and are able to treat each person as an individual. Before I get Padded,... I am not blaming one party, just pointing out that both party's may have made mistakes. They are only human after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 No.... the quotes themselves are facts.... facts that koeman spoke critically of the lad at least once per month. Did any other player get this treatment? No. So this quote, from the ever positive about Barkley, Roberto Martinez in FEBRUARY 2016 is also fact... We will probably look at it in the summer. As Ive said before, Ross is not a young man any more. Hes a player you can build a project on. When you want to build a project it is about a player who wants to play for Everton and wants to take that role. It is one thing as a manager wanting to do something, if the player doesnt feel the same way then you cannot do it. There were already rumblings that Barkley wanted to look at other options. Or at least keep his options open. Back then, it was said that Barkley wanted to move on because the club had slipped under Martinez. Just about to finish 11th 2 years in a row. Several players got new contracts over the coming months. But not Barkley. As you know, even Gibson got one! So after Martinez talking about it in February 2016 and mentioning other players who would (and did) get contracts sorted out, Barkley was left out by the club's own choice? That's crazy thinking. Even someone as single minded and as stubborn as you can (be at times!) see that that cannot be a true scenario of the club's choice? At the end of the day, me personally, I'm not looking to blame anyone. I don't see why someone has to be to blame. If Barkley wants to move on, and he's said so behind the scenes, fair play to him. If he thinks there are better options, good luck. He wants a fresh start, new challenge...its a short career, go get what you can while you can. I hold no I'll feelings towards the lad, I'm not into all this 'But he's a blue, he's screwing us' etc etc. But if people want to blame Koeman and the club, sorry but clearly Ross isn't smelling of roses. He can't always be the innocent victim. Victim of no contract. Victim of Koeman. Victim of unprovoked punch. Victim of 3 England managers. Victim of the fans. Hopefully we move on soon. efc1111 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 So essentially it's a case of: 1. The club knew over a year ago that he wasn't intending on extending his stay 2. I knowing this he still got a fair bit of stick off the manager which is unlikely to make him change his mind 3. He confirmed this when we offered him his new contract in April. In which case - get him sold ... we have a DOF. It appears that no sly running contracts down has gone on here.... to me it seems that Barkley is very honest with the managers and keeps his gob shut to the press. Personally I still think the shit he gets off the fans gas had a huge Impact too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Well, that was worth catching up on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 So essentially it's a case of: 1. The club knew over a year ago that he wasn't intending on extending his stay 2. I knowing this he still got a fair bit of stick off the manager which is unlikely to make him change his mind 3. He confirmed this when we offered him his new contract in April. In which case - get him sold ... we have a DOF. It appears that no sly running contracts down has gone on here.... to me it seems that Barkley is very honest with the managers and keeps his gob shut to the press. Personally I still think the shit he gets off the fans gas had a huge Impact too. That's fair, but he's stupid enough to not understand he's ruining his career. He is professional player earning millions per year, and should act as professional. The criticism he receives is often well deserved, and instead turning it into motivation to do better, he's abandoning the ship without being able to swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 No.... the quotes themselves are facts.... facts that koeman spoke critically of the lad at least once per month. Did any other player get this treatment? No. Did any other player fail to sign a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 And someone's interpretation of sound bites, isn't fact @Hafnia @MC11 Ooooooo that got to you didn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 If the club didn't want him to stay and weren't trying to get him to stay then why, even after he told Koeman in April of his intentions, did they put him on the kit launch? No for me we have tried to make him stay, he wants to go and we have finally given up and will now either make money on him or keep him for a year and lose him on a free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 That's fair, but he's stupid enough to not understand he's ruining his career. He is professional player earning millions per year, and should act as professional. The criticism he receives is often well deserved, and instead turning it into motivation to do better, he's abandoning the ship without being able to swim. Abandoning the ship or being told he's no good at rowing and he's watching the captain spend a shed load of money to replace him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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