James McCarthy

[BedfordBlue]

Forget the stats, he is garbage £13m wasted, if he was that good why did he get relegated... same goes for martinez.

 

Jags got relegated when we brought him

[Matt]

 

Jags got relegated when we brought him

think he was being flippant

[Hafnia]

think he was being flippant

 

slightly...

 

I think I spent a fair bit of time the other month trying to calm some youtube, football manager and MOTD fans down in appraising a player of good quality who by all acoounts wasnt good enough because he played for wigan... who they had never seen...

[Guest]

I championed to sign McCarthy as I feel he is a modern day bracewell. Him and Barry will be our midfield for a couple of seasons and then he will prove even better due to Barry's qualities and him learning. Roberto obviously knows what he has and even £13 mill is a steal for what we are going to get in the long run

[Cornish Steve]

I championed to sign McCarthy as I feel he is a modern day bracewell. Him and Barry will be our midfield for a couple of seasons and then he will prove even better due to Barry's qualities and him learning. Roberto obviously knows what he has and even £13 mill is a steal for what we are going to get in the long run

 

I agree completely and was a big admirer of his when he played for Wigan.

[Vranny]

I think most fans here wanted him. People were just baulking a bit at the price, especially for a player from a relegated team.

 

I actually wanted him a few seasons ago as a replacement for Rodwell when he was just bursting onto the scene and was being heavily linked to united. Interesting to see this same scenario happen but with Fellaini, not Rodwell.

[Hafnia]

I called out that his strengths over fellainis is a bigger workload capacity and ability to cover ground quickly versus fellainis physical prescence. Apart from that his passing is a lot more sharper and he can help set a tempo.

[Bill]

I watched the game on BT sport and didnt realise McCarthy was playing, it was 21 mins into the game before i heard him mentioned.

 

Motm should have gone to one of the centre backs.

[Hafnia]

I watched the game on BT sport and didnt realise McCarthy was playing, it was 21 mins into the game before i heard him mentioned.

 

Motm should have gone to one of the centre backs.

 

Thats the problem with people judging McCarthy based on "watching the game" - if you are watching it with a "did he take someone on, did he ping the ball 30 yards, did he have a shot from 20 yards, did he make a last ditch tackle" you aren't going to see him...

 

You need to watch him, if you watch the play when the opponent has the ball he puts himself in a position to try and break up the play. Against Man City he did alot of the dirty work and his contribution can be un appreciated...

 

http://eplindex.com/41842/james-mccarthy-impressing-everton-stats-analysis.html

[Bill]

.......... Got yer Haf.

 

 

But still dont think he was MotM.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Bill

[c1982]

 

You need to watch him, if you watch the play when the opponent has the ball he puts himself in a position to try and break up the play. Against Man City he did alot of the dirty work and his contribution can be un appreciated...

 

 

...and this brings us back to the point that you get a better overall feel if you go to the match.

[Avinalaff]

I called out that his strengths over fellainis is a bigger workload capacity and ability to cover ground quickly versus fellainis physical prescence. Apart from that his passing is a lot more sharper and he can help set a tempo.

 

You're comparing again. :Grammar Police: Forget Fellaini, forget Moyes etc. If they didn't exist, Martinez and McCarthy would have to be judged on their own individual merit. People aren't good because others are worse, and vice versa. Fingers crossed that both will be great.

[Avinalaff]

...and this brings us back to the point that you get a better overall feel if you go to the match.

 

Especially if you get hit in the face by the ball :wind up:

[Hafnia]

 

You're comparing again. :Grammar Police: Forget Fellaini, forget Moyes etc. If they didn't exist, Martinez and McCarthy would have to be judged on their own individual merit. People aren't good because others are worse, and vice versa. Fingers crossed that both will be great.

 

 

Nope - disagree there. Comparing the new boy and old boy is essential to understanding where you are headed (Cantona replacing Dion Dublin....), fortunately I made some very apt predictions with regards to their attributes on this thread way before the transfer happened - i'm not gonna post them, but they are there. Basically in losing a midfielder of fellainis prescence you have a gap to fill - if you are to play to his style. I accurately suggested that a more mobile touch footballing midfielder would be better suited to a martinez side.

 

I feel that up to now everything i've envisaged has pretty much happened or is happening

 

• Moyes style at united will not see them winning enough games and he will struggle to impose his style on their players
• Martinez would change our style and make the likes of Barkley a top class player, whilst others like Jags may struggle
• McCarthy will prove to be a top class player who will struggle to get plaudits from youtube fans

I may end up with egg on my face, so be it... but up to now proven right and long may it continue.

[Avinalaff]

 

 

Nope - disagree there. Comparing the new boy and old boy is essential to understanding where you are headed (Cantona replacing Dion Dublin....), fortunately I made some very apt predictions with regards to their attributes on this thread way before the transfer happened - i'm not gonna post them, but they are there. Basically in losing a midfielder of fellainis prescence you have a gap to fill - if you are to play to his style. I accurately suggested that a more mobile touch footballing midfielder would be better suited to a martinez side.

 

I feel that up to now everything i've envisaged has pretty much happened or is happening

 

• Moyes style at united will not see them winning enough games and he will struggle to impose his style on their players
• Martinez would change our style and make the likes of Barkley a top class player, whilst others like Jags may struggle
• McCarthy will prove to be a top class player who will struggle to get plaudits from youtube fans

I may end up with egg on my face, so be it... but up to now proven right and long may it continue.

 

Great to see you so positive Haf. It's refreshing.

 

If only you wouldn't spoil it by needing to speak badly of the others. Martinez has had a handful of games. You can't possibly draw comparisons to 11 years, especially as Martinez is still eating at the table that Moyes prepared. McCarthy has been here for just a few weeks. It would be small minded to judge him one way or another.

[Hafnia]

 

Great to see you so positive Haf. It's refreshing.

 

If only you wouldn't spoil it by needing to speak badly of the others. Martinez has had a handful of games. You can't possibly draw comparisons to 11 years, especially as Martinez is still eating at the table that Moyes prepared. McCarthy has been here for just a few weeks. It would be small minded to judge him one way or another.

balanced is the word Av, I say the things I see good, I say the things I see bad. sometimes the bad things I see doesn't tally with other peoples views... I'm not just gonna air positive views.

[Avinalaff]

balanced is the word Av, I say the things I see good, I say the things I see bad. sometimes the bad things I see doesn't tally with other peoples views... I'm not just gonna air positive views.

 

Balanced is not the term I'd use Haf. I'd call it repetitive and boring mate. You write what you want though , and don't let me stop you. There are lots of other posts I can read instead if that's the easier solution.

 

I think Martinez is great = fantastic

Not that keen on Martinez so far = fantastic

I think Martinez has some great qualities, and some not so great ones = That's balanced.

 

I think Martinez is great because he is different from that useless Ginger blah blah blah = boring and repetitive. Not to mention a bit childish and immature. But you knew that already though. Some of us don't wish Moyes the worst, despite being angry with him over the transfer window etc, so sometimes your 'balanced opinion' as you call it becomes annoying and offensive, when it hits you in the face every time we go to read about the guy on here.

 

We know you don't like him. You don't need to constantly underline it mate.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Avinalaff

[Bill]

Well said Av, we know its a forum, but one sided views become not only boring but annoying, especialy when they are constantly repeated as some sort of greater knowledge, and constantly blowing ones own trumpet.

 

We know what you think and what you say Haf, but its time to stop singing the same old song over and over again.

[Hafnia]

we will agree to disagree then boys. maybe it's just the fact that humble pie being repeatedly shoved in your face is the issue rather than the opinion itself, after all we do all have our forum idiosyncrasies. unless we need to get into drawing those out?

[SimonButtle]

we will agree to disagree then boys. maybe it's just the fact that humble pie being repeatedly shoved in your face is the issue rather than the opinion itself, after all we do all have our forum idiosyncrasies. unless we need to get into drawing those out?

Look at it this way then Haf, underneath the glossy exterior of pass,pass,pass, as far as i can see, we still only play to our best for 45mins and we still don't score enough goals compared to those around us. These are the same fundamental problems we had under Moyes, Sure Roberto has been a breath of fresh air with some of his ideas and positivity but team wise, same problems are still there imo.

[MikeO]

Look at it this way then Haf, underneath the glossy exterior of pass,pass,pass, as far as i can see, we still only play to our best for 45mins and we still don't score enough goals compared to those around us. These are the same fundamental problems we had under Moyes, Sure Roberto has been a breath of fresh air with some of his ideas and positivity but team wise, same problems are still there imo.

 

Only City, Liverpool and Arsenal have scored more than us so far this season .

[Hafnia]

Look at it this way then Haf, underneath the glossy exterior of pass,pass,pass, as far as i can see, we still only play to our best for 45mins and we still don't score enough goals compared to those around us. These are the same fundamental problems we had under Moyes, Sure Roberto has been a breath of fresh air with some of his ideas and positivity but team wise, same problems are still there imo.

 

Its a major step in the right direction Si, I'm not giving Roberto the key to the city just yet but in a very short space of time (sooner than expected) he has gone about imposing a much needed style change to our team. It has certainly suited some more than others. Lets not forget he has had a few issues to deal with - pienaar injury, gibson injury, mirallas being out of form, lukaku and barry missing their respective home club ties.

 

Tell me a better 45 minutes of football in recent years than we seen against Newcastle.

 

The key things he needs to sort out are:-

 

• Jags, Baines and Mirallas form.
• Lukaku needs 90 minutes fitness, he's working very hard for 45 and has nothing left
• we need to be nastier - he needs to be nastier. Forget this likable lark - get tougher on the players at those times when they have dropped the tempo like the second half against city, newcastle and fulham.

He will be all over this anyway... for me I have seen enough to be more than satisfied. Since the end of the window we have looked a better side, I want to see how Kone can supplement our forward line as we need his input until we can see Lukaku do it for a full game.

 

Do we start with Kone? - let him run the back line tired and then Lukaku takes advantage in second half? I have lost all faith in Jelavic - he's a busted flush. Get rid in January, a drop in form is one thing but his is much more than that.

[Hafnia]

 

Balanced is not the term I'd use Haf. I'd call it repetitive and boring mate. You write what you want though , and don't let me stop you. There are lots of other posts I can read instead if that's the easier solution.

 

I think Martinez is great = fantastic

Not that keen on Martinez so far = fantastic

I think Martinez has some great qualities, and some not so great ones = That's balanced.

 

I think Martinez is great because he is different from that useless Ginger blah blah blah = boring and repetitive. Not to mention a bit childish and immature. But you knew that already though. Some of us don't wish Moyes the worst, despite being angry with him over the transfer window etc, so sometimes your 'balanced opinion' as you call it becomes annoying and offensive, when it hits you in the face every time we go to read about the guy on here.

 

We know you don't like him. You don't need to constantly underline it mate.

 

I think the problem you have always had with my criticism of Moyes Av is that you put all your eggs into the "davies is great" basket. It may be a credit to you but when you look for balance you can review your posts in here http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/23173-moyes/page-1 - some extremely valid and prophetic balanced cases against Moyes which you vehemently defended... so lets not get into characteristics of the posters when your own can be picked and analysed.

 

We spent months upon months debating and theorising new managers, moyes and his credentials etc, now we have a great case to evaluate these discussions based on evidence of a new regime and you call it boring? Bit too convenient, I think irritating is more the honest answer. If you had been more balanced in your appraisal/defence of Moyes you may not have found these posts of mine "boring"

 

I have along with a few others on here never bought into his act of recent years. He has always had his own agenda and brought the fans passion in to suit him as and when required. New contract a few years back? Not signing it till he had the backing in the transfer market. £70k a week David??? Ok where do I sign... roll on transfer window "we can't buy what we can't afford, the chairman works really hard blah blah"

 

Then when faced with a big name opponent is was penknives to gunfights,,, then a poor perfromance against stoke "stoke have spent in the transfer window"

 

BTW Bill - the fishing rod was a good one and Av's argument was a convenient one for you to support... the reality is that you had McCarthy judged as a waste of money and Joe Allen before you had seen him play. Balance boys, balance.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

balanced is the word Av, I say the things I see good, I say the things I see bad. sometimes the bad things I see doesn't tally with other peoples views... I'm not just gonna air positive views.

 

 

Lol Well that's something I would never have imagined you ever saying!

[Hafnia]

 

 

Lol Well that's something I would never have imagined you ever saying!

 

ah was waiting for your input Dunc - hiya dude.

[Bill]

Haf wrote ....

 

"BTW Bill - the fishing rod was a good one and Av's argument was a convenient one for you to support... the reality is that you had McCarthy judged as a waste of money and Joe Allen before you had seen him play. Balance boys, balance."

 

 

 

ffs Haf he's played two and a bit games, all of a sudden he's the greatest thing since Pele. Forgive me but i'll wait until the seasons out before i cum in my pants when talking about him.

[Hafnia]

I hope to fook he stays at Wigan, he's another Joe Allen.

He was a stand out player in a shit team. :dont know:

Never stopped you being a bit premature before.

 

don't worry humble pie could be the order of the day for me, haven't eaten it since fellaini got good.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Hafnia

[Bailey]

Im not buying all of this 45 minute nonsense either.

 

If you look at the Newcastle game and think we only played well for 45 minutes then your talking out of your arse. We played some really good football in that second half as well, and the energy and balance between McCarthy and Barry was superb. Yes we conceded two goals and more chances than we did in the first half but that wasnt unexpected given how much we dominated the first 45mins. If you think any team at this level is going to control a game from the 1st minute to the 90th then you need to think again. The two goals we conceded in that half werent because we played poorly as a team. Cabaye scored a worldie and our CB's were caught on their heels. We worked ourselves into a lot of goal scoring opportunities but we just didnt take advantage. Sometimes that happens. At no point were Newcastle ever in control of the game.

 

Lukaku also happened to do a lot of good things in the second half, maybe not as good as the first. If he could play like he did in that first 45 for every minute of the game then he would never have come to us in the first place!

[Hafnia]

Im not buying all of this 45 minute nonsense either.

 

If you look at the Newcastle game and think we only played well for 45 minutes then your talking out of your arse. We played some really good football in that second half as well, and the energy and balance between McCarthy and Barry was superb. Yes we conceded two goals and more chances than we did in the first half but that wasnt unexpected given how much we dominated the first 45mins. If you think any team at this level is going to control a game from the 1st minute to the 90th then you need to think again. The two goals we conceded in that half werent because we played poorly as a team. Cabaye scored a worldie and our CB's were caught on their heels. We worked ourselves into a lot of goal scoring opportunities but we just didnt take advantage. Sometimes that happens. At no point were Newcastle ever in control of the game.

 

Lukaku also happened to do a lot of good things in the second half, maybe not as good as the first. If he could play like he did in that first 45 for every minute of the game then he would never have come to us in the first place!

his energy levels have plummeted in the second half of the two games he's started though.

[Bill]

He hasnt proved me wrong yet, not until he shows me over a full season.

 

Your drooling over him after a couple of games, and he wasnt a stand out performer in those games.

 

End of, for me anyway, no doubt you'll come back like a starstruck 16 year old with a crush on him.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Bill