Matt Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 Minus the two penalties I thought he was solid. Weird sentence I know, but he was very rash a couple of times. He still did a great job taking away those two mistakes he made and didn't see him make many more.agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 Aidan come on mate Baines isn't the most creative defender in the league ever and he's a shadow of the player he was 2-4 years ago he needs to take the game to them more like he use to he seems a bit hesitant in going forward as if he's more concerned about being caught out of position or something and it does hurt to say he's not the Baines of old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 Aidan come on mate Baines isn't the most creative defender in the league ever and he's a shadow of the player he was 2-4 years ago he needs to take the game to them more like he use to he seems a bit hesitant in going forward as if he's more concerned about being caught out of position or something and it does hurt to say he's not the Baines of old He's created more goals than any other premier league defender, therefore he is the most creative PL defender in the history of the PL. He's also been hampered with injuries this past two seasons and has been unlucky. Prior to that he was a world class full back and needs to get fit to get back into form. Furthermore, he isn't going to get forward as much with Koeman as he doesn't always like his fullbacks bombing forward like Martinez did. You can't put Oviedo in the same category as baines, Baines is head and shoulders above him offensively and defensively. MikeO and duncanmckenzieismagic 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 If that stat is accurate then your right he was the most creative defender in that sense but all I'm trying to get a cross is he has lost a lot of his creativity and possibly believe now that maybe due to his injuries but we are playing in the now and not the past. But any way Aidan I do take on board your points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Baines may not be as good as he was, but he's still head and shoulders above Oviedo. Jags did well again, both pens were poor decisions from him, but we got away with them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Jagielka was excellent yesterday bar those 2 mad moments. I know that's a silly statement but he was. I notice nobody picked up on Williams giving the ball away stupidly on the edge of our area 3 times and Jagielka bailed him out twice. Williams was also excellent though, to be fair we got absolutely battered. Another day and that ends up 6-1 Romey 1878 and duncanmckenzieismagic 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I thought both were excellent too, few mistakes but not getting into all that again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 As always jags gets an easy time on here. If that was Mori everyone would be going ballistic. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 If that stat is accurate then your right he was the most creative defender in that sense but all I'm trying to get a cross is he has lost a lot of his creativity and possibly believe now that maybe due to his injuries but we are playing in the now and not the past. But any way Aidan I do take on board your points Me too Palfy. Oviedo is more of a winger for me, I have to look away whenever he's asked to defend! Haha.I'd like to see us buy someone else to replace Baines in the next coming seasons, I'm not sure who though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 As always jags gets an easy time on here. If that was Mori everyone would be going ballistic. I don't give anyone any easy time, because simply I don't have favourite players. Jagielka made two errors yesterday and anexperienced defender shouldn't, however he also defended superbly for most of the game, a game where we were absolutely pummeled for almost 90 minutes. Some of his last ditch defending was top drawer, s was Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 As always jags gets an easy time on here. If that was Mori everyone would be going ballistic. Its not just in here that people think he played well, The Echos comments are spot on for me http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-city-1-1-everton-12031021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I don't give anyone any easy time, because simply I don't have favourite players. Jagielka made two errors yesterday and anexperienced defender shouldn't, however he also defended superbly for most of the game, a game where we were absolutely pummeled for almost 90 minutes. Some of his last ditch defending was top drawer, s was Williams. Three, there was a loose short pass on the edge of the box picked up by a city player. All three were school boy errors. He lacks responsibility and leadership skills to be captaining Everton every week, and we'd turn draws into wins without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Three, there was a loose short pass on the edge of the box picked up by a city player. All three were school boy errors. He lacks responsibility and leadership skills to be captaining Everton every week, and we'd turn draws into wins without him. So what about the 3 times Williams done it? Point being we were being hammered it was relentless and they have some of the best attacking players in the world. For those 3 errors there were countless auality interceptions and tackles (from both centre halves) he is not above criticism of course he isn't but he defended exceptionally well despite the 2 pens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 So what about the 3 times Williams done it? Point being we were being hammered it was relentless and they have some of the best attacking players in the world. For those 3 errors there were countless auality interceptions and tackles (from both centre halves) he is not above criticism of course he isn't but he defended exceptionally well despite the 2 pens.Despite two pens. Most pens are stupid moments, but you can't defend what he done by saying the rest went well. Football is a low scoring sport with very little margin for error, and with him on the pitch the margins favour the opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Don't know how you can say that Pete, Koeman has no problem replacing any players who are not performing, like to see if he benches Jags for the next game, as theres no doubt that you would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Don't know how you can say that Pete, Koeman has no problem replacing any players who are not performing, like to see if he benches Jags for the next game, as theres no doubt that you would.He gave Barkley one more game to redeem himself, so I'd expect Jagielka to start, but if I was Mori I'd be fuming not to get a chance after yesterday's mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Proper captains performance...........eh well no. He's a solid vet CB but just not a leader out there. We needed marshaling and the ref needed to be yelled at at times and jags just wasn't there. Unless we want a Gerard style captain making bum mistakes at all the wrong times he's not a captain for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Gerrard style captain? He was a prick and I don't want a prick leading the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 We have one of the best defensive records in the league. I think Jags should keep his place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 We have one of the best defensive records in the league. I think Jags should keep his place. Second behind Spurs. In the big leagues in Europe there are just two teams in Germany, two in Spain and one in Italy with better. Madness to change it; Baines for Oviedo aside. chicagoblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 I agree so far this campaign koeman has shored the defence up which had to be his or anyone's first priority after taking over the mess left by Martinez and Jags has played a massive part in the turn around no way his he getting dropped for me he could still walk into any team in the PL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Gerrard style captain? He was a prick and I don't want a prick leading the team. Neither do I. I won't dispute he's a solid defender, he's just not a captain. Giving away two penalties is gerrard esque. I don't want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 We have one of the best defensive records in the league. I think Jags should keep his place.There's still room for improvement. Of the few we have conceded he's been the most culpable. Last time I checked we won more points without him, although conceded slightly more goals. The mentality of the team, and all-round team work is better without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted October 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Williams was excellent yesterday and is clearly the much better defender. Giving away two penaltys (both really poor) is not good enough. I agree with Pete, if it was Mori the issue would have been raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 The issue was raised, it's what we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted October 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 The issue was raised, it's what we're talking about. Ah right. I wouldn't know that because it wasn't me who started the discussion was it? Oh wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Jags was excellent yesterday, okay he gave away 2 penalties but come on the amount of defending we were asked to do in that game was ridiculous. There won't be many games were we need to defend like that. I'd agree and say Williams would make a better captain than Jags he's a lot more vocal but the pair have been great up to now so why the need to change? Throw Baines back in when he's fit again and we have a solid looking back 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Man city were diving so much you'd think it was the olympics, never saw jags have a word with the ref. The whole point of the captain is you are a representative of the team who can speak to the ref, shame he doesn't exercise that right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Man city were diving so much you'd think it was the olympics, never saw jags have a word with the ref. The whole point of the captain is you are a representative of the team who can speak to the ref, shame he doesn't exercise that right. That's a minor role for a captain. In gave you are instructed not to get into the rest face and argue. Decisions are made and the team needs to accept it and respond with football, not harassment. He does need to he vocal in leading the team though, that's what a captains main role should be, to lift your team and lead by example. We want a ref bully to lead the team then maybe loan Terry for a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Think I've got different expectations of a captain to most of you. A captain should lead by example, not with his mouth. Jags will probably be first to admit that he's not the best defender around, but he conducts himself with dignity and always gives his all. That's what makes our club special; dignity. It can be a detriment sometimes, and an uncelebrated strength most of the time. A big part of the reason I love this club is that the squad hasn't succumbed to the the lime light, attention seeking antics that others have. I love our integrity. nutmegwolf203, StevO and duncanmckenzieismagic 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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