Palfy Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Aidan said: Good point well presented. Well conceded Aidan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 17 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: Ah wel then maybe he will survive. The press in your country is truly vicious when it comes to footballers. It’s amazing the stuff they get away with. Tee hee and to 'Royalty' too markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 5 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: If Micheal Keane, Lewis Dunk and Tyrone Mings are good enough then Holgate is certainly good enough Was about to post the same thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Palfy said: Well conceded Just shows the level English centre halves are currently operating at I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Thought he was great again tonight Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 He was very good. I was worried when he looked like he pulled a hamstring, seemed to be ok though. One of the first names on the team sheet at the moment. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Apparently Michael Keane is well better and mere fans like myself know less than Marco Silva... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, pete0 said: Apparently Michael Keane is well better and mere fans like myself know less than Marco Silva... Pete I was a fan as well, I think we might have been the only ones. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 hours ago, pete0 said: Apparently Michael Keane is well better and mere fans like myself know less than Marco Silva... I don't think it's the right time to gloat about one that you think you've got right.... Tom Davies absolutely cost us on 2 goals tonight. Holgate has been our best defender which isn't saying much.... but why was he and Mina doing sat down behind the goal line for the second goal???? They actually watched it all happen. Davies missed his header and stood still instead of getting behind the ball too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hafnia said: I don't think it's the right time to gloat about one that you think you've got right.... Tom Davies absolutely cost us on 2 goals tonight. This is the Holgate thread and a lot more players (plus the manager) to blame before Tom Davies. Said at the time £30 million for Keane was shocking when Holgate is better. Were you one of the ones to laugh? Fuck it I'll bite. Davies and Digne couldn't pass the ball out as no one else was showing for it. The senior players are cowards. London Blue and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 hours ago, pete0 said: Apparently Michael Keane is well better and mere fans like myself know less than Marco Silva... The law of averages suggests you had to be right about one player eventually, congratulations ! Although I think everybody knew he was a good player anyway, the loan last season did his development the world of good Hafnia and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I didn't think either of him or Mina played well. They had so little to do and they both could have cost us. They both played passes that put us under pressure. Holgate was rolled easily that would have led to a good chance if it weren't for Sidibe, he was caught too far ahead of the near post for the Joelinton header (same with Haller header last week) and Lord only knows why he didn't challenge for that header at the end of the game to win it for us. That was far from good enough in my opinion. He is better than that (which he showed in the mid point of the game). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undisputed_blue Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Remembered watching Toffee TV when one of their guests insisted Holgate wasn't good enough at this level. Less than six months later, he's touted for England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 22/01/2020 at 08:15, pete0 said: This is the Holgate thread and a lot more players (plus the manager) to blame before Tom Davies. Said at the time £30 million for Keane was shocking when Holgate is better. Were you one of the ones to laugh? Fuck it I'll bite. Davies and Digne couldn't pass the ball out as no one else was showing for it. The senior players are cowards. I was never convinced by Keane since he got rolled so easily by lukaku when we played Burnley. Too slow. He did at times shoe games where you thought he had something.... but that's probably true with Davies really isn't it. Here's the thing Pete.....it is possible that a players change in performances can change your opinion - you don't have to pin your colours to the mast..... I know it can be a knock to the ego to admit a player proves you wrong but that's football. Players improve and decline..... you don't have to make posts to fit your first opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Exactly Haf, that’s why I only ever argue with Palfy. I never get proven wrong that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, Hafnia said: I was never convinced by Keane since he got rolled so easily by lukaku when we played Burnley. Too slow. He did at times shoe games where you thought he had something.... but that's probably true with Davies really isn't it. Here's the thing Pete.....it is possible that a players change in performances can change your opinion - you don't have to pin your colours to the mast..... I know it can be a knock to the ego to admit a player proves you wrong but that's football. Players improve and decline..... you don't have to make posts to fit your first opinion. You were made up he came and thought he was better than Holgate. I didn't see any shouts from you last season for Holgate to come in for him. You only made the one comment but let's be honest that was more a dig at Lukaku to down play him scoring a goal. I changed my opinion on DCL, Koeman saw something in him that not many of us did. How was Davies at fault for both goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Keane was the better player last season. No one was calling for the club to bring Holgate back from loan to go into the first team. Holgate has now improved way beyond anything he has ever done for us before, and hopefully he continues. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, StevO said: Keane was the better player last season. No one was calling for the club to bring Holgate back from loan to go into the first team. Holgate has now improved way beyond anything he has ever done for us before, and hopefully he continues. Holgate was our best defender under Koeman out of Williams, Jagielka and Keane. Got injured and was then never given a chance by Silva. Keane was average at best last year and should have been dropped which me and MJB were saying (I actually said he shouldn't have been bought in the first place). Whilst the majority of shirt memoried Evertonian were saying to sell him to the championship he's not good enough. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Jags, Keane, Holgate then Williams in that order for me. Holgate has the best potential but he wasn’t ready to be relied on as a CB. I would’ve liked him to get more time but Coleman was ahead of him. The loan has helped him become the player we know he can be StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, pete0 said: Holgate was our best defender under Koeman out of Williams, Jagielka and Keane. Got injured and was then never given a chance by Silva. Keane was average at best last year and should have been dropped which me and MJB were saying (I actually said he shouldn't have been bought in the first place). Whilst the majority of shirt memoried Evertonian were saying to sell him to the championship he's not good enough. he was excellent under koeman. i was surprised he was sent on loan i thought he was going to be our starting CB. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 He wasn’t starting regularly for Koeman, so he didn’t think he was up to much back then. The lad has always had potential, but he’s never played at this level of his ability before now. Only Pete could turn a topic about how one of our players has been playing so well into an argument. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, StevO said: He wasn’t starting regularly for Koeman, so he didn’t think he was up to much back then. The lad has always had potential, but he’s never played at this level of his ability before now. Only Pete could turn a topic about how one of our players has been playing so well into an argument. To be fair, not only Pete... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 hours ago, pete0 said: You were made up he came and thought he was better than Holgate. I didn't see any shouts from you last season for Holgate to come in for him. You only made the one comment but let's be honest that was more a dig at Lukaku to down play him scoring a goal. I changed my opinion on DCL, Koeman saw something in him that not many of us did. How was Davies at fault for both goals? I think if you go back... I was one of only 2 or 3 who seem something in DCL. I stated there were times he wasn't ready or was poor in games but I believed in him from the get go. Davies? Stupid foul for the 2nd, missed an easy header to clear ball then stood still after he missed it. The first he and digne were both culpable. Get rid of it. Simple as that. For the record in 2016 I called holgate a class act and worth £25m already....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Matt said: Jags, Keane, Holgate then Williams in that order for me. Holgate has the best potential but he wasn’t ready to be relied on as a CB. I would’ve liked him to get more time but Coleman was ahead of him. The loan has helped him become the player we know he can be We already got to see he was a competent centre half under Koeman. Most at the time would have said he was the best and Williams although limited was the best other option as he had experience and was most suited to help Holgate. Silva come in and dropped DCL and Davies, and didn't give Holgate a chance (he also fucked off Vlasic). All these players got minutes under Koeman. Silva turned his nose up at all the kids here. Even DCL only got a proper chance after giving up on Tosun and trying a winger up top over him. Also wasn't he playing right back on loan? For me he'd have benefited staying here and playing his own position, not like Keane was pulling up trees. 1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said: he was excellent under koeman. i was surprised he was sent on loan i thought he was going to be our starting CB. Ditto mate. Think some just have very short memories. Before his injury he was first choice by most of us. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Just now, Hafnia said: I think if you go back... I was one of only 2 or 3 who seem something in DCL. I stated there were times he wasn't ready or was poor in games but I believed in him from the get go. Davies? Stupid foul for the 2nd, missed an easy header to clear ball then stood still after he missed it. The first he and digne were both culpable. Get rid... Simple as that. Pretty sure I'd already changed my mind before you did but you were very vocal once yer did, as let's be honest you were mostly waxing lyrical that DCL was a hard worker as a dig against Lukaku rather than crediting the talent Dom has. What space did he have to get rid, surely that should would have been Digne's job? Also were were his teammates to help him, what were the options on? Why is in the position to give that foul away? Because his team mates had just given the ball away cheaply. Foul on the half way shouldn't be given him the blame for the goal. Stood still? It was a scramble none of them could react fast enough. But enjoy picking on the kid like the rest of the booh boys. Many more players and the manager responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, pete0 said: We already got to see he was a competent centre half under Koeman. Most at the time would have said he was the best and Williams although limited was the best other option as he had experience and was most suited to help Holgate. Silva come in and dropped DCL and Davies, and didn't give Holgate a chance (he also fucked off Vlasic). All these players got minutes under Koeman. Silva turned his nose up at all the kids here. Even DCL only got a proper chance after giving up on Tosun and trying a winger up top over him. Also wasn't he playing right back on loan? For me he'd have benefited staying here and playing his own position, not like Keane was pulling up trees. Ditto mate. Think some just have very short memories. Before his injury he was first choice by most of us. He showed moments and I was one who was asking for him to get a run of games. Glad he got away from the club because it wasn’t a pleasant atmosphere and he got protected from that, which will have also helped him. Didn’t matter that he went to play RB, he got game time which he wasn’t getting and that experience has helped him become consistent. He wasn’t the player then that he’s showing he is now, let’s just be happy he’s doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, pete0 said: Pretty sure I'd already changed my mind before you did but you were very vocal once yer did, as let's be honest you were mostly waxing lyrical that DCL was a hard worker as a dig against Lukaku rather than crediting the talent Dom has. What space did he have to get rid, surely that should would have been Digne's job? Also were were his teammates to help him, what were the options on? Why is in the position to give that foul away? Because his team mates had just given the ball away cheaply. Foul on the half way shouldn't be given him the blame for the goal. Stood still? It was a scramble none of them could react fast enough. But enjoy picking on the kid like the rest of the booh boys. Many more players and the manager responsible. Of course Davies wasn't culpable in any way shape or form..... just like I'm sure you wouldn't lay blame on Gana in the same situation......... I can go back to any posts and show support for Dom, holgate I called class in 2016 before you had even commented on him..... you did so in 2017 where you said he should be ahead of cuco..... nice one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Matt said: He showed moments and I was one who was asking for him to get a run of games. Glad he got away from the club because it wasn’t a pleasant atmosphere and he got protected from that, which will have also helped him. Didn’t matter that he went to play RB, he got game time which he wasn’t getting and that experience has helped him become consistent. He wasn’t the player then that he’s showing he is now, let’s just be happy he’s doing well. But he would have been that player. Silva wrongly chose not to give him them minutes. Him playing instead of Keane alone could have made the difference of finishing 8th. Silva stuck with the seniors and his ill fitting tactics regardless of how poor Keane was. (I'd also add Davies should have got more minutes too over Sig or Gana). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hafnia said: Of course Davies wasn't culpable in any way shape or form..... just like I'm sure you wouldn't lay blame on Gana in the same situation......... I can go back to any posts and show support for Dom, holgate I called class in 2016 before you had even commented on him..... you did so in 2017 where you said he should be ahead of cuco..... nice one He's part of the team so he's culpable but he's no where near the top of the list. Many more before him yet you pick on the kid because it's the popular thing to do. You then jumped that ship called Keane the next Radcliffe/Dave Watson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I’ll be honest he’s turning out to be a lot better than I thought he would, that loan spell obviously did him a world of good. I remember going to emirates a few seasons ago when we lost to a 10 man Arsenal team, he played RB that day and was awful. Things are starting to come together for him but he’s still got a lot to learn and is no were near the finished article yet, but he’s heading in the right direction so what’s the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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