Aidan Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 19 hours ago, Btay said: Tough decision between playing him or dropping and seems it’s backfired. Simply put - not good enough and we won’t win anything with him in our first 11. With Godfrey out Rafa would have to have made the decision to play Holgate or Keane. I think he will naturally trust Keane more and rightly so - so he really is just the best of the two. Hopefully we see more of Mina and Godfrey which could be out best CB pairing. StevO and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 13 hours ago, pete0 said: He's an absolute joke. Manager should get the blame though. Probably the worse team to pick him to play against, more so when we're playing a high line. 21 minutes ago, pete0 said: What was the third he should have had? He won and converted the penalty. His job was done. Keane and Benetiz much more to blame. Pete, you already looking for a reason to go after Rafa? 4 points from the first 2 games, the football looking much better than last year. You're such a negative Nancy StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Personally I would like to see Mina and Godfrey / Holgate as or defence, I think Mina reads the game so well, and is always talking, which young players like Godfrey and Holgate need. I think Holgate can really kick on if he has a quality partner who can guide him through. I like Keane I think he is a good defender, he has his limitations, like turning, but is sound genrally. Having a tough start to the season but he will get through it. Especially with Benitex being so good at defensive coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Having a confidence player at CB isn’t good when over half the time he’s not confident and his mistakes are magnified when they lead to goals as the last two have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 2 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said: Pete, you already looking for a reason to go after Rafa? 4 points from the first 2 games, the football looking much better than last year. You're such a negative Nancy Be six if he didn't play Michael Keane. Said it before the game that Keane isn't suited to play legs. It was too no one's surprise Michael turns like a bus Keane got caught out. It's just as much on the manager for picking him when he should have known they'd exploit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, pete0 said: Be six if he didn't play Michael Keane. Said it before the game that Keane isn't suited to play legs. It was too no one's surprise Michael turns like a bus Keane got caught out. It's just as much on the manager for picking him when he should have known they'd exploit him. Holgate has more gaffes in him than Keane does, those are just facts. So if it's not Keane or Holgate, you think Rafa should've played Branthwaite? StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 Just watched the full match. Im not a fan of his, but he did alright didn't he? A few good blocks, won the majority of his challenges, and an excellent toe in to snuff out a very good chance. The through ball for the goal looks an inch perfect ball. Not sure it’s his fault? StevO, London Blue and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 He's a good defender, he slipped for the goal. Not outstanding, a good partner in a Centre Back but needs to have a dominant partner next to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 14 hours ago, Palfy said: I’m not prepared to give up on him just yet although I’m furious with his mistakes, we’ve been here before with him nearly every season he has a shaky patch then quickly turns the corner to become one of our most solid CBs. No he has a solid patch of 8 games and is shaky the rest. He has been for what 4 years and has only proven to be up and down. It’s seriously time move on and look for defenders who can play further up the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 By all means bring Keane of for the last 10/15 if we are defending a lead. We can sit deeper and he will eat up most deliveries into the box - he is excellent at that and deserves credit for it. Just all round game is sub par for a team trying to push europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 22, 2021 Report Share Posted August 22, 2021 6 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said: Holgate has more gaffes in him than Keane does, those are just facts. So if it's not Keane or Holgate, you think Rafa should've played Branthwaite? How's it a fact? Keane probably made more cock ups in his first season alone than Holgate has in his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 As long as he is any where near our starting team we will be bottom half of the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 He may not be in the best of form but none of them are, he’s probably still our best centre half. The last time we were a top half team he was a big part of our defence. In 2018-19 he played 33 league games and we finished 8th, he had Zouma next to him for most games. In 2017-18 he played in all 30 games and we finished 8th, he had Ashley Williams next to him for most games. In his whole time at the club managers keep picking him and change his partner. Have they all been wrong? Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, Carlo, Rafa, they all pick him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 15 minutes ago, StevO said: He may not be in the best of form but none of them are, he’s probably still our best centre half. The last time we were a top half team he was a big part of our defence. In 2018-19 he played 33 league games and we finished 8th, he had Zouma next to him for most games. In 2017-18 he played in all 30 games and we finished 8th, he had Ashley Williams next to him for most games. In his whole time at the club managers keep picking him and change his partner. Have they all been wrong? Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, Carlo, Rafa, they all pick him. I’ve never seen a player get such a free pass as him before. The first couple of season he was young enough to forgive the mistakes as he could potentially learn and become a solid centre half - fast forward a few years and he still makes the same mistakes just more frequently. I can’t stress enough how much I don’t see us improving until he is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Btay said: I’ve never seen a player get such a free pass as him before. The first couple of season he was young enough to forgive the mistakes as he could potentially learn and become a solid centre half - fast forward a few years and he still makes the same mistakes just more frequently. I can’t stress enough how much I don’t see us improving until he is gone. What makes you think he gets a free pass? He’s been a whipping boy for the fans for pretty much his whole time at the club. But every single manager has liked him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 Keane is by no means a bad defender. He is without doubt Premier League level and top half leage level in the right circumstances. He just isn't a leader and when things aren't comfortable for him he struggles. I also really don't think it helps that his partners have been Mina (talented but unorthodox), Godfrey (erratic) and Holgate (not at this level). I do think Mina is the best CB we have but he can't stay fit. Keane is then the next best but he isn't someone that will control the two wild kids he has next to him. We saw that yesterday. StevO, Sibdane, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Bailey said: Keane is by no means a bad defender. He is without doubt Premier League level and top half leage level in the right circumstances. He just isn't a leader and when things aren't comfortable for him he struggles. I also really don't think it helps that his partners have been Mina (talented but unorthodox), Godfrey (erratic) and Holgate (not at this level). I do think Mina is the best CB we have but he can't stay fit. Keane is then the next best but he isn't someone that will control the two wild kids he has next to him. We saw that yesterday. This. Keane stays fit, he manages 35+ games pretty much every season. If we could get a player next to him who is stable and calm under pressure, and can also play a lot of games, I don’t think anyone would have any issue with him. Wiggytop, Matt and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 8 minutes ago, StevO said: This. Keane stays fit, he manages 35+ games pretty much every season. If we could get a player next to him who is stable and calm under pressure, and can also play a lot of games, I don’t think anyone would have any issue with him. And as long as we do not play 5 at the back. Keane is absolutely clueless on who to mark in a back 5. One stable partner next to him makes it easy. Think we can all agree that is the case. And if we agree on that, it speaks to his football brain, which is average at best. And then that is where mistakes come in. Good but needs someone to carry the water. And this is why people doubt his talent. And then round and round we go on this particular topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 minute ago, plaidharper said: And as long as we do not play 5 at the back. Keane is absolutely clueless on who to mark in a back 5. One stable partner next to him makes it easy. Think we can all agree that is the case. And if we agree on that, it speaks to his football brain, which is average at best. And then that is where mistakes come in. Good but needs someone to carry the water. And this is why people doubt his talent. And then round and round we go on this particular topic. And then given my first thoughts, you would ask who would I play instead of him? The pickings are slim. And we haven't signed anyone in that position. And then you realize you would pick him. And once again we go round and round on this particular topic. How do we break the cycle? Sell some CBs and bring some new ones. But we are bound by FFP and no one wants to pay big money for Holgate. And thus we go round and round again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 Just now, plaidharper said: And then given my first thoughts, you would ask who would I play instead of him? The pickings are slim. And we haven't signed anyone in that position. And then you realize you would pick him. And once again we go round and round on this particular topic. How do we break the cycle? Sell some CBs and bring some new ones. But we are bound by FFP and no one wants to pay big money for Holgate. And thus we go round and round again. And now am I just talking to myself? Am I crazy? Maybe? This club makes you so. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StevO Posted January 3, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 17 minutes ago, plaidharper said: And as long as we do not play 5 at the back. Keane is absolutely clueless on who to mark in a back 5. One stable partner next to him makes it easy. Think we can all agree that is the case. And if we agree on that, it speaks to his football brain, which is average at best. And then that is where mistakes come in. Good but needs someone to carry the water. And this is why people doubt his talent. And then round and round we go on this particular topic. Absolutely! Five at the back is no good. You need to build a whole team around it to make it work. Bailey, Matt, Romey 1878 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 hour ago, plaidharper said: And as long as we do not play 5 at the back. Keane is absolutely clueless on who to mark in a back 5. One stable partner next to him makes it easy. Think we can all agree that is the case. And if we agree on that, it speaks to his football brain, which is average at best. And then that is where mistakes come in. Good but needs someone to carry the water. And this is why people doubt his talent. And then round and round we go on this particular topic. Based on yesterday they are all clueless on who to mark in a back 5! It was a shambles. Romey 1878 and plaidharper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 He's one of the most error prone players I've ever seen. I'd love to see some stats on how many mistakes leading to chances of goals a season he has made. He can pick a pass and scores the odd goal, which is nice, and often looks solid. But there's no point in any of that if you are going to make 2 disasterous errors or lapses every match. That's too high a price to pay to have him in the team, he's been here for years now and hasn't removed that from his game - he should have been moved on years ago. Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 hour ago, badaids said: He's one of the most error prone players I've ever seen. I'd love to see some stats on how many mistakes leading to chances of goals a season he has made. Two errors leading to a goal in his whole Premier League career according to the official Premier League website, I'm not sure who their stats are provided by though but I'd guess it's opta. It shocked me, too. Not sure about errors leading to a chance, can't find anything regarding that. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 This season 1 20/21 - 0 19/20 - 0 18/19 - 1 17/18 - 0 https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal Some interesting stats in there. Keane’s headed clearances are unbelievable too. Was looking at more but had my glasses stollen by a baby, very distracting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badaids Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, StevO said: This season 1 20/21 - 0 19/20 - 0 18/19 - 1 17/18 - 0 https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal Some interesting stats in there. Keane’s headed clearances are unbelievable too. Was looking at more but had my glasses stollen by a baby, very distracting. Kudos for doing the research, but is it just me or are those stats bullshit, I can remember so many games where he had two! Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, badaids said: Kudos for doing the research, but is it just me or are those stats bullshit, I can remember so many games where he had two! Stats like this are mostly made up of someone’s opinions, and many like yourself may see it differently, that’s why so many seem so shocked that it’s so low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 He's an excellent player when his confidence is high and he knows exactly what to do. The two are connected, I think, and right now he must be quite dejected. Our defence is a mess, and I lose count of the number of times we leave opposition players wide open at the far post. This is all on the manager and the system he's trying (and failing) to impose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 29 minutes ago, badaids said: Kudos for doing the research, but is it just me or are those stats bullshit, I can remember so many games where he had two! So many stats are total bollocks; guy can beat ten players on incredible mazy run then play it to another guy who makes a simple pass to the goalscorer and gets an assist, the guy who created the goal gets nothing. Likewise at the back, fuck ups early in the build up will be ignored, even though they created the situation from which a goal is conceded. Matt, Btay and StevO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 3, 2022 Report Share Posted January 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Cornish Steve said: He's an excellent player when his confidence is high and he knows exactly what to do. The two are connected, I think, and right now he must be quite dejected. Our defence is a mess, and I lose count of the number of times we leave opposition players wide open at the far post. This is all on the manager and the system he's trying (and failing) to impose. Oh here we go he wasn’t doing that last season or the season before was he, refresh yourself with some of criticism he has received in games over the last few years, and your see the same stuff being said then as now, I agree with you when he’s good he’s good, but when he’s bad he’s bad and this has been going on for years with him, this is not a Benitez factor this is down to a player who over the years he’s been with us gets caught day dreaming Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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