markjazzbassist Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 http://www.espnfc.us/club/everton/368/blog/post/2790943/everton-unlikely-to-keep-prodigies-without-improvement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I haven't been on this for a while (slap on the wrist) and haven't got the time to go through all the thread unfortunately but I will put my 2 cents in. I think the reason why we aren't getting results is not because of Martinez and his tactics but fans as well. We have got it in our head that we've got this great squad with world class players. (Great potentially word class players not world class yet) and are expectations are sky high at the moment. I can understand why as well, we do have the best squad we have had in years and years. The questions you should be asking though: Why is our away form better than our home form? Everton have conceded 12 away from home and 20 at home. Away form we would be 6th in the table. Home form we would be 17th. We are constantly booing Everton when we aren't scoring or playing possession football. Spurs for example, when Stones was playing around with Son. Running to Howard and turning him Son again and again. We were booing and getting overly excited and Stones had to tell the crowd to calm down. (Pretty sure he mutted "Jesus Christ" under his breath as well). Away from home the players don't get that and can play their own game. We can't do that at Goodison because we won't let them. So overall, my opinion is not Martinez as I do believe he is a good manager but the fact our expectations are getting higher and higher. Bring back the days where we couldn't sign Lukaku, Gerard, McCarthy etc and bring back the days where we had Moyes who couldn't of convinced those type of players to join his team in the first place. Bring back the days where we were patient and realists and a top 7 was what we expected each year! I have been to every home game this season and I can confidently tell you that you are miles off the mark if you think the crowd are constantly booing. Stones never got booed, the entire Park End may have been screaming at him to get rid of the ball but there was no booing The difference is as simple as MC says in that teams set up differently when they come to Goodison The one thing you do say that I agree with though is I would gladly welcome back the days when we had top 7 finishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I have been to every home game this season and I can confidently tell you that you are miles off the mark if you think the crowd are constantly booing. Stones never got booed, the entire Park End may have been screaming at him to get rid of the ball but there was no booing The difference is as simple as MC says in that teams set up differently when they come to Goodison The one thing you do say that I agree with though is I would gladly welcome back the days when we had top 7 finishes! That was only 2 seasons ago... nearly got 4th too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3408859/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Roberto-Martinez-isn-t-inventing-wheel-Everton-technically-minded-coaches-Howard-Kendall-did-not-neglect-defensive-duty.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 http://www.espnfc.us/club/everton/368/blog/post/2790943/everton-unlikely-to-keep-prodigies-without-improvement Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 He is under a different spotlight now.... a patronising "well done" for getting wigan to be pleasing on the eye whilst leaking goals will not sit with Everton fans and the media. Is it a simple case of getting a good defensive coach in or is it symptomatic of our overall style of play? Does that even need a response?? Would a defensive coach have the authority to come in and say 'Look, lads, I know what the gaffer tells you, but can you please stop trying to fanny about with it within 30 yards of your own goal because misplaced passes and getting tackled tend have bad consequences there?' Or even: 'Ok boys, that's enough of the one-touch pass and move today, let's defend some crosses.' You don't defend as poorly as Martinez's teams have done for so long without it being a systematic flaw in the approach. I know I sound harsh on him, and believe me I love some of the things he has done in terms of personnel, playing style going forward, but the facts to me are plain and simple, we do not defend nearly well enough to be having an impact on the league and the manager is going to have to evolve his approach for that to improve. Gwlad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Does that even need a response?? Would a defensive coach have the authority to come in and say 'Look, lads, I know what the gaffer tells you, but can you please stop trying to fanny about with it within 30 yards of your own goal because misplaced passes and getting tackled tend have bad consequences there?' Or even: 'Ok boys, that's enough of the one-touch pass and move today, let's defend some crosses.' You don't defend as poorly as Martinez's teams have done for so long without it being a systematic flaw in the approach. I know I sound harsh on him, and believe me I love some of the things he has done in terms of personnel, playing style going forward, but the facts to me are plain and simple, we do not defend nearly well enough to be having an impact on the league and the manager is going to have to evolve his approach for that to improve. Have a look at the goals we are conceding... Nothing to do with fancying around in our own half. Just poor defensive errors from players who are better than that. Not winning key balls etc, silly fouls etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 We are conceding these goals because our players don't have any confidence. A good run and a few clean sheets and that WILL all change.... I can feel it! Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 We are conceding these goals because our players don't have any confidence. A good run and a few clean sheets and that WILL all change.... I can feel it! You'll be saying that right until the last game of the season and we still haven't managed to win two league games in a row . Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 You'll be saying that right until the last game of the season and we still haven't managed to win two league games in a row . Next year's going to be great ;-) Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The issue with defence is not systematic; just look at the clean sheet, away, against City. It's more a matter of inconsistency at a time when key players - Jagielka, Baines, Coleman - have been out for extended periods. In theory, players should be able to swap in and out and make little difference; however, Stones is still learning from Jagielka, and Funes Mori remains new to the Premier League. brittoncarl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 http://blog.paddypower.com/2016/01/21/absolute-maniacs-why-no-side-in-the-league-is-more-bonkers-than-everton/?AFF_ID=16562&dclid=COWtopbtwMoCFY2eGwodDZEAXA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 http://blog.paddypower.com/2016/01/21/absolute-maniacs-why-no-side-in-the-league-is-more-bonkers-than-everton/?AFF_ID=16562&dclid=COWtopbtwMoCFY2eGwodDZEAXA Saying what we all already know in a very overstated and colourful way. Nothing new; though I grudgingly admire the style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I like to see attractive football as much as the next fan, but man alive even I admit that it does not get points. So what does? Scoring more goals than the opposition does, that's what!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 http://blog.paddypower.com/2016/01/21/absolute-maniacs-why-no-side-in-the-league-is-more-bonkers-than-everton/?AFF_ID=16562&dclid=COWtopbtwMoCFY2eGwodDZEAXA Saying what we all already know in a very overstated and colourful way. Nothing new; though I grudgingly admire the style.exactly, brilliantly written though, cracking up over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 NBCSN here in the states had some very critical (and absolutely true) words concerning Martinez before the match today. Its the first time I have heard this amount of criticism this season so far. They are basically seeing through his bullshit spinning and always positive attitude - saying he is under pressure for a team that should be doing WAY better. Its not news, but I'm glad this is being aired publicly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 The exit after that performance. Back to last seasons shite. Just feel empty after that one... rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Table from 12 months ago. http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2014-2015/table/2015-01-31 No progress, same mistakes. If Rogers wasn't good enough for Liverpool, why are we putting up with Martinez? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Table from 12 months ago. http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2014-2015/table/2015-01-31 No progress, same mistakes. If Rogers wasn't good enough for Liverpool, why are we putting up with Martinez? Discuss. Disagree, we've been playing muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better football and are losing the games on individual errors, deflections and shocking officiating at times. I'm losing patience again but.... At least this season it's entertaining. We will get better, I know we will because we've already proven we can evolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Table from 12 months ago. http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2014-2015/table/2015-01-31 No progress, same mistakes. If Rogers wasn't good enough for Liverpool, why are we putting up with Martinez? Discuss. We're three points better off than we were last season, if that's not progress I don't know what is . We're also ninety minutes from Wembley. We're much improved on last season but just not getting decisions and making stupid mistakes defensively. And what the hell do Rodgers/Liverpool have to do with anything? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 It's about ambitions - Liverpool wouldn't accept a manager who could only deliver top 6, why are we accepting a manager who can only deliver midtable? And forget the 'good football' garbage - football is about scoring more goals than your opponent, nothing else. For two seasons now we have gifted the opposition goals, and been wasteful taking our own chances. I'm sorry but I find nothing entertaining about mediocrity punctuated by the odd 15 minutes of decent passing football. And I don't believe it's all about to turn around, I really don't think Martinez is good enough to turn around the mistakes his teams make game in, game out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Holding my tongue till after this semi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Holding my tongue till after this semi. Im not even sure a trophy will make up for how frustrated I am by our league campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 He has absolutely no defense now, he needs to go. Excuse after excuse after excuse.league position is nothing short of shambolic. I honestly don't know how we're going to end up when this bloke finally swans off into the sunlight. We could be in a really bad state. If he didn't have this league cup game on Wednesday he'd be literally standing bollocko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 It's about ambitions - Liverpool wouldn't accept a manager who could only deliver top 6, why are we accepting a manager who can only deliver midtable? And forget the 'good football' garbage - football is about scoring more goals than your opponent, nothing else. For two seasons now we have gifted the opposition goals, and been wasteful taking our own chances. I'm sorry but I find nothing entertaining about mediocrity punctuated by the odd 15 minutes of decent passing football. And I don't believe it's all about to turn around, I really don't think Martinez is good enough to turn around the mistakes his teams make game in, game out. We're halfway through the season. 5th isn't mid table, last season was, this season? Well, for the most part we're playing better than our position suggests. Last season we didn't even deserve 11th. Shit game today, awful. But again we've suffered from a deflection, a penalty and a walking penis of an official. Only a matter of time until it gets better... MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 For the first time I am starting to question my faith in Martinez. And it cones down to these petty errors we keep making. To sum it up, I see 2 well respected guys on this forum, MikeO and Matt, talk about individual errors, defensive mistakes, ref decisions etc. But my point would be this: we have been talking about the same things...certainly individual errors and defensive lapses...since last season. In that respect, nothing at all has changed. It really hasn't. At this point last season, I was thinking we'd go on a great run and climb the table...more hope than an educated statement...yet here I am again thinking exactly the same thing. Saying exactly the same thing. Yes, our forward play has improved. Yes we have a better squad. Yes we score goals...but for the same reasons as last season, we aren't getting results! And it's a results business. It's ok improving certain aspects of the team, it's ok improving the squad of players, but if you can't get points on the board...well, what you doing it for?! Every week for over a year, I think it's going to change. But it hasn't. Every week, with hope, I look to the next game. And we see the same thing happening. And this is the problem...Martinez will buy time with a Cup win. But what really buys Martinez time is us, the fans, not seeing the same old same thing happening over and over. Relying on the ref to get points at home to a poor Swansea? Sums it up really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 will he bench players not performing satisfactorily ? if so then quite a few players come to mind today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 We're halfway through the season. 5th isn't mid table, last season was, this season? Well, for the most part we're playing better than our position suggests. Last season we didn't even deserve 11th. Shit game today, awful. But again we've suffered from a deflection, a penalty and a walking penis of an official. Only a matter of time until it gets better... Your generally very much like me Matt (no offence!!) but just think about it...we've been defending the same thing for 12 months. And it's still happening. I'm not panicking. I'm not angry. I'm just so so disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bobby1982 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I'll let my tongue go. If we win on Wednesday, I will still have the same opinion as I have right now. With you saying you will hold your tongue, all you mean is your opinion can change game by game so I for one don't value your opinion then Mark. If we win on Wednesday it will be because we have gone into the game one goal ahead. We know Wembley is the next step. We know it's a one off game. We know we can play counter which is our best way.... I judge Martinez on these games today. In my head, we had this wrapped up today before the whistle. We have had a alot of these games and we Havnt performed in any of them. Same mistakes again and again. I would like to see Bobby get a right hand man in, like a Rodgers style because he has some perfect methods but ultimately some championship ones also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 6 wins out of 23 isn't it? And 18 out of 60 odd going further. Relegation form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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