MC11 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Point being completely missed. Besic is a headless chicken at times. Seems as though he suffers with tunnel vision. His challenges are occasionally mistimed and clumsy, as well as being overly aggressive - not needed all the time. Keane on the other hand was in control of his aggression. All those clashes mentioned above were calculated clashes. Edited January 10, 2016 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Point being completely missed. Besic is a headless chicken at times. Seems as though he suffers with tunnel vision. His challenges are occasionally mistimed and clumsy, as well as being overly aggressive - not needed all the time. Keane on the other hand was in control of his aggression. All those clashes mentioned above were calculated clashes. hes still a kid learning. "Calculated clashes" just makes it sound even worse. He was rarely in control of his temper, let alone aggression, even as a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 hes still a kid learning. "Calculated clashes" just makes it sound even worse. He was rarely in control of his temper, let alone aggression, even as a manager. Not really, Hafnia's made a comparison to Keane. Completely different temperament IMO. Keane knows what he's doing, Besics a headless chicken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Not really, Hafnia's made a comparison to Keane. Completely different temperament IMO. Keane knows what he's doing, Besics a headless chicken It's your opinion, I think he has real potential and he has great ability on the ball. Class player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If only players progressed as they got older and didn't just stay exactly as they were when they first started out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If only players progressed as they got older and didn't just stay exactly as they were when they first started out. Like first touch, it's impossible to improve temperament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If only players progressed as they got older and didn't just stay exactly as they were when they first started out. Don't see your point? I'm saying it as it is now. Not once mentioned him not being able to curb the over enthusiasm. Think he's a neat and tidy player on the ball but right now he's still a bit of a liability in the challenge. Can he work on it? Maybe, maybe not. I just think that's in his makeup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Don't see your point? I'm saying it as it is now. Not once mentioned him not being able to curb the over enthusiasm. Think he's a neat and tidy player on the ball but right now he's still a bit of a liability in the challenge. Can he work on it? Maybe, maybe not. I just think that's in his makeup. Just comes across as you searching for a new way to criticise him after he nuked your view that we don't play well when he plays. Let's take a look at a few things - How many times has he been sent off for us? Zero isn't it? He was on the end of a nasty challenge against City (it may have been Spurs but I'm not sure), and he just got up and shrugged it off. He marked Lionel Messi out of a game. He did the same to Yaya Toure and David Silva. He has an excellent range of passing - he can play short and long with ease. He chased Yaya Toure half the length of the pitch and then timed his challenge perfectly to win the ball back. He's got bags of energy. He's capable of driving runs. Yes he makes mistakes, and will continue to do so for some time yet, but to label him as a hot head and a headless chicken is a huge exaggeration imo. Deacs, Kant, MC11 and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 And there is the nail on the head. Again potential, but potential to be a great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Just comes across as you searching for a new way to criticise him after he nuked your view that we don't play well when he plays. Let's take a look at a few things - How many times has he been sent off for us? Zero isn't it? He was on the end of a nasty challenge against City (it may have been Spurs but I'm not sure), and he just got up and shrugged it off. He marked Lionel Messi out of a game. He did the same to Yaya Toure and David Silva. He has an excellent range of passing - he can play short and long with ease. He chased Yaya Toure half the length of the pitch and then timed his challenge perfectly to win the ball back. He's got bags of energy. He's capable of driving runs. Yes he makes mistakes, and will continue to do so for some time yet, but to label him as a hot head and a headless chicken is a huge exaggeration imo. Previously we haven't played well with him the side and that's probably why he's always been on the fringes of the match day squad. He's had a couple of good games and I've mentioned him in both MOTM threads - so I'm hardly breaking the lads balls. However, I've judged him by what I've seen and so far yes he is a hot head..... Punching the ground, stamping his feet, over zealous challenges, throwing chewing gum - all points to that. I couldn't care less if he marked Messi out if a game. Messi would tear the lad a new one and to suggest he was the only reason Silva and a Toure didn't play well is daft. Edited January 10, 2016 by MC11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Unless I am wrong he was injured after the Chelsea game so been hard to judge him this season. From what I have seen he seems like a gem of a player. He needs more game time, but his drive and effort are infectious, when he and Cleverley play we have a really dynamic midfield. I have seen no evidence of him having a anger problem like Fellaini or Catermole, or being a nasty Bast*rd like Charlie Adam. Don't confuse passion for a bad temper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Newty82 Posted January 10, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'll just stick to my guns...this team needs Besic. Every single person in this forum had said openly that this team needs to be more aggressive. That we are 'too nice'. Everybody. No doubt it's been our downfall. And here we have the answer. I wouldn't change a single thing about Besic other than give him more experience...but only game time and age will do that. Ok, he'll fuck up occasionally...the chewing gum thing was just funnily daft and embarrassing . He'll probably get sent off at some point. But we need that sort of player. The floor thumping, the swearing...its the make up of a player we miss. A Dog of War. Roy Keane was just an enforcer. I can't remember ever seeing Keane chase back and flick the ball over his and his opponents head? Great player to have in your team, Keane, no doubt. But talk about volatile. This isn't about being right or wrong, or arguing for the sake of arguing...its just what makes sense. Matt, Romey 1878, MikeO and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 He's a much better player than McCarthy, if it means him taking his place I'm all for it. I haven't heard anyone calling for McCarthy since he's been playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) He's a much better player than McCarthy, if it means him taking his place I'm all for it. I haven't heard anyone calling for McCarthy since he's been playing.Ha, I know you don't rate McCarthy but I think all those who 'get' what McCarthy does will be excited by the prospect of a McCarthy - Besic duo. I think it will be awesome, I really do. I don't think many would get through that much effort and determination. Be like trying to run through a brick wall....only to find its brick covered 12" steel plate!!! And just to EDIT: I never in my life thought I'd get so excited about having 2 players like this in the team. Never. But makes me think of Joe Parkinson, John Ebrell and Barry Horne. 2 for the price of 3!!! Edited January 10, 2016 by Newty82 MikeO, Romey 1878, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 He's a much better player than McCarthy, if it means him taking his place I'm all for it. I haven't heard anyone calling for McCarthy since he's been playing. I'd be willing to bet good money that our worst runs this season and last have coincided with McCarthy being out injured. Besic coming in has given us something of what we miss when McCarthy is not playing. Looking forward, I want to see Barry eased out and Besic and McCarthy run the centre of the pitch for us for years to come, with Barkley just in front. Romey 1878, MikeO and Kant 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) I couldn't care less if he marked Messi out if a game. Messi would tear the lad a new one and to suggest he was the only reason Silva and a Toure didn't play well is daft.except, when it came to it, none of them did, Mo had them in his pocket despite your contradiction. Could be a one off, but that's hyperthetical. Fact is fact. Edited January 10, 2016 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 For the future McCarthy and mo would be fucking frightening. Gerry,Barkley,yarmelenko and rom up front? Fuck me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 For the future McCarthy and mo would be fucking frightening. Gerry,Barkley,yarmelenko and rom up front? Fuck me! Please don't, that's kinda scary to think we could witness that at Goodison. Don't want to get to excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Big two games ahead. Would take a win and a loss. Think I'd rather beat the cockney bellends and save city win for the cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 For the future McCarthy and mo would be fucking frightening. Gerry,Barkley,yarmelenko and rom up front? Fuck me! Don't worry, we still have Howard between the sticks - it'll balance the whole thing out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Magnificent style of play - Check Positive ambassador for the club - Check Transfer market magician - Check Premier league results - Meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt Posted January 14, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Magnificent style of play - Check Positive ambassador for the club - Check Transfer market magician - Check Premier league results - Meh I've always maintained this is a 5 year plan. We've had the gung-ho first year, 2nd year trying to be more measured (which failed, bring with it it's own lessons), this season we've abolished the boring nonsense of last season and I imagine this season we'll continue to entertain and frustrate with results. With some of the talent we've accumulated, and if we can keep them, we're in for one hell of a season next year and future after that Cornish Steve, MikeO, efc1111 and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've always maintained this is a 5 year plan. We've had the gung-ho first year, 2nd year trying to be more measured (which failed, bring with it it's own lessons), this season we've abolished the boring nonsense of last season and I imagine this season we'll continue to entertain and frustrate with results. With some of the talent we've accumulated, and if we can keep them, we're in for one hell of a season next year and future after that i'm a martinez skeptic myself but matt i'm begining to see what you are saying. his acquisitions of talented youngsters is bar none. top notch scouting and gets the right players who play to his preferred style. i'm slowly coming around. Kant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lowensda Posted January 15, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 IF Byram comes off and he joins the 'school, i'd be hugely impressed by Martinez' recruitment plan (for the most part). I think the player's he's bought in his first year (his old Wigan targets (Kone, McGeady)) have been poop but the rest have been quite something. The squad and the potential of our youngsters is frightening, for which Martinez is due credit. IF we continue to play the big boys, like we did against City at City, then we'll be fine but we've got to start taking all three points off everyone else, especially at home. IF he can change that, I think Martinez's 'plan' could be incredible. It's exciting times but it feels on a knife's edge. We either excel now and keep our young BIG stars or we stall, lose some of them and have to rebuild again. The future is quite bright though, his stubbornness aside. Let's hope his persistence starts to pay off. Kant, MikeO, Elston Gunnn and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Potential back four of Byram Stones Galloway Garbutt Then theres Foulds to throw into the mix, as well we Mori. Excluding Mori, all English, all under 23. Not to shabby at all Romey 1878 and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I just hope we don't turn into The spurs of 4-5 years ago stock piling youngsters who turned out wank Kant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I just hope we don't turn into The spurs of 4-5 years ago stock piling youngsters who turned out wank Some will, and some won't, which is probably why we've brought in what some might claim is excess young defensive prospects. markjazzbassist, duncanmckenzieismagic and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kant Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 Some will, and some won't, which is probably why we've brought in what some might claim is excess young defensive prospects. As another sports manager said recently (Sam Hinkie, GM of the 76ers), most of the managerial decisions are based on probability. There is a 1 in 2 chance that this player becomes good, there is a 1 in 3 that the other becomes solid on a key attribute, or there is a 1 in 10 chance that this player becomes a superstar and we are going to stay away from him... To acquire a lot of promising youngsters is quite a good approach to mitigate the odds of all of them turning mediocre. For every Lukaku there will be an Anichebe, for every Deulofeu there will be a Velios. But, with time, you only need 11 starting players. I'm quite happy with the players aged <25 Martinez has signed so far, the team is doing a great job at this. Lukaku, Deulofeu, McCarthy, Funes Mori, Besic look like great players in the making that can play for 5 o 6 years for the club. Combine it with the excellent development of Galloway and Stones and there is something in the making. All the old duds he brought in from Wigan (Alcaraz and Kone) were squad rotational players that, frankly, have dissapointed. However, they have stopped this type of signings and the other two veteran lads RM brought in (Barry and Cleverly) are 1 English internationals and 2 seasoned players that want to win. Coleman has been stagnant for a while and his level has dropped from two seasons ago when he had a career year, so there is another U23 lad coming in (hopefully) that looks good. I see this kind of replacements as the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brittoncarl Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'd have him over Rafa any day, wonder if he'd go to Real if he does reach his potential and got approached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I'd have him over Rafa any day, wonder if he'd go to Real if he does reach his potential and got approached? he is from catalan. i imagine he would prefer Barca or Espanyol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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