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Now Martinez has gone, who should get the nod...

Lowensda

By Lowensda
in General Everton Discussion

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RuffRob
RuffRob

I would like to see Moyes back - as somebody else has mentioned the best we have seen of a Martinez team was based on purely on what Moyes had built and left for him, and nothing at all to do with any

Newty82
Newty82

Ok. Moyes inherited a side that won the league and had all the league and cup winning coaches in place...he got rid of them. He had the advice of Sir Alex Ferguson, he didn't take it. Quite stubborn e

Makis
Makis

I went through the serious, or not quite so serious possibilities that I have seen or thought of and threw in a few extra suggestions. I do suspect that Moshiri will not sack Martinez right away. He w

Johan Newbie

Johan

Posted
Posted (edited)

If Stam and bergkamp come then yes to De Boer, but I'd take pellegrini in a heartbeat as well! We cannot afford another up and coming manager, we have to go for experience! Experience of winning cups and titles and European competition!

 

Why? Just because of the big names? You clearly have no idea how they performed at Ajax.

Stam showed very little tactical intelligence at Jong (Young) Ajax. Constantly selecting players with no future at Ajax (chance of reaching the 1st team) instead of the real talented ones.

Bergkamp is known for being silent. Sure he will have influence on individuals (just like Stam has for defenders), but their value for Ajax has been nothing compared to Frank de Boer.

 

I'd like to describe De Boer as very authentic in huge contrast with all the crazy behaving actors out there. No nonsense, honest, modest, calm and realistic in interviews but very driven and demanding (a true winner) and very normal. There are stories from people who were surprised by seeing him helping his wife out with her (furniture) store in his rare spare time. It must be a funny surpise to see Frank de Boer delivering some stuff at your house.

Although most non Ajax supporters hate Ajax (jealousy i guess), almost no-one dislikes De Boer. Despite or maybe because his indepedent acting. Never saying crazy things in the press, never playing a role. Wearing his frown if not satisfied but not complaining, and despite his sloppy word choice contentwise alway saying the right thing (socially intelligent).

In a very difficult time at Ajax (if you know the club, you know how difficult it can be working there), with the whole club fighting and a lot of negative press, he managed to keep his team out of it all, kept calm and won 4 titles in a row. While many people thought PSV had the better team. Every year building a new team, without complaint and making it work with not the best material (because Ajax did not want to spend big money anymore). That's a big achievement.

Negative point is that many Ajax fans thought the team played too boring (and i agree). But Ajax is known for the very critical and spoiled fans: winning is not enough.

 

If he'll come to Everton, he will bring Orlando Trustfull with him.

Edited by Johan
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Johan Newbie

Johan

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks Johan. I don't follow the eredivisie so I appreciate your comments. Do you think he would be a good manager in the premier league? Is his style similar to koeman?

 

Your welcome. I think you can compare them at some level. Both are influenced by Cruijff and Van Gaal btw, but are totally the opposite of Van Gaal's temper with (mistrust of) the press.

Maybe Koeman is more businesslike and has more distance from his players, and De Boer is closer in a sense that he alway want to participate (like Cruijff). As a trainer he's also very strict on details (like Van Gaal). I think Koeman is more an observer and also about discipline.

Through the years both Koeman and De Boer learned to be a bit more focussed on the result than their teacher Cruijff was, who only wanted to play the best and most entertaining football, and the results were more like an outcome of the good playing (just like Ajax fans want). De Boer is good in "building" a team, en making it play well organized. He's proven that many years now. Starting difficult with always loosing his best players, and before half season having a good organized team.

 

De Boer is also a good peoples manager, and great with young players. He did have some trouble with some players who acted like they were the star though. He had trouble accepting prima donna behavior, and all those players eventually did not make it (no privileges for anyone). Of course Ajax has many "coming talents" It would be interesting to see how he cope's with players with an attitude in a bigger competition. The good thing is: he managed to create a real good calm mood in all his teams after eliminating the bad apples (is this good English or Van Gaal English :) ?). Almost never an incident in the press.

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markjazzbassist Proficient

markjazzbassist

Posted
Posted

 

Your welcome. I think you can compare them at some level. Both are influenced by Cruijff and Van Gaal btw, but are totally the opposite of Van Gaal's temper with (mistrust of) the press.

Maybe Koeman is more businesslike and has more distance from his players, and De Boer is closer in a sense that he alway want to participate (like Cruijff). As a trainer he's also very strict on details (like Van Gaal). I think Koeman is more an observer and also about discipline.

Through the years both Koeman and De Boer learned to be a bit more focussed on the result than their teacher Cruijff was, who only wanted to play the best and most entertaining football, and the results were more like an outcome of the good playing (that's what Ajax fans want). De Boer is good in "building" a team, en making it play well organized. He's proven that many years now. Starting difficult with always loosing his best players, and before half season having a good organized team.

Wonderful Johan thank you. Does he have a preferred formation? Is he more direct or possession based football?

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chalkpie Newbie

chalkpie

Posted
Posted

Thanks Johan Sebastian Bach. I know little about the guy but her certainly carries a reputation (good) so I have always thought highly of him.

 

If you don't mind answering this: what can you say about his defensive qualities, and attacking qualities?

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Johan Newbie

Johan

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Posted (edited)

Wonderful Johan thank you. Does he have a preferred formation? Is he more direct or possession based football?

 

Hard to say. He was loyal to the Ajax system because that's holy in Amsterdam, and (coming to the club at the age at 14) he believes Ajax should play that way.

That's 4-3-3, and he even experimented with 3-4-3 with one central defender extra to the midfield at ball possession, but i'm sure he won't do that in the PL. :) Even at Ajax with the current squad that experiment was no succes (like it used to be with more quality). Typically for De Boer was his puzzling with the midfield. He both tried one defending midfielder with two more creative ones as playing with a "10" (as we say at Ajax) behind the strikers, and two more controlling midfielders. In previous years he always played that first option: with a midfield pointing backwards (2 attacking players with one defending behind it). The search for the right defending midfielder (with the changing teams) was always the turnpoint in succes in those seasons. Very difficult position in the way he wanted to play.

I think you can say he's a lot about ball possession, and only the last season he tried more direct play as a plan B. But that's because Ajax had to deal with a lot of defending playing opponents.

Ajax of course also plays with wingers. A lot of supporters were disappointed that De Boer choose many times for wingers on "their wrong side" (left footed on the right side). Not like Ajax used to play. He's very much influenced by Barca in that (and Cruijff as an advisor in his first year).

 

So.. it's interesting if he'll leave that philosophy behind when working for another club. I do believe he does have a huge personal contribution in how he organizes his defenders. Even mediocre ones. He already did as a player.

 

@

chalkpie

I think i answered your question too. And of course the name stands for another genius named Johan. :)

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smeghead1 Newbie

smeghead1

Posted
Posted

The Express are saying if de Boer knocks the job back they're gonna bring Moyes back. I'm using my phone so I can't put the link up but surely they've more choices than those 2. I'm not overly excited by either.

 

Hopefully they've looked at any available Mourinho or Pellegrini would make more sense to me as they know the league and know what it takes to win it.

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Newty82 Mentor

Newty82

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Posted

And this is how we know that the press just make it up as they go along...

 

The Mirror go with us approaching Mourinho.

 

The Express say Moyes will make a stunning return if De Boer falls through.

 

Daily Mail say Koeman will consider our approach after final game.

 

The Guardian say Benitez could to us but us negotiating with Newcastle.

 

I mean, seriously, how easy is that as a job?

 

Pellegrini hadn't been mentioned. So it will be him. That's how Everton seem to work!!!

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Newty82 Mentor

Newty82

Posted
Posted

Does anyone actually read or believe the daily express???

 

"Britain in for the hottest June on record" "house prices set to treble" "eating pancakes lowers cholesterol better than statins"... it's like the Sunday sport nowadays.

Don't read or believe any paper. Although when I did read papers, many were far worse than the Express. Red top papers seem to lead the way for total bullshit.

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Mogsy Newbie

Mogsy

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Posted (edited)

Please not Flores. Watford have been having the exact same problems with him that we have with Martinez, their situation is almost parallel except Flores favours defensive football.

 

This, I would be massively disappointed, we need to make a statement of intent with who we employ as manager, if the board is serious with this investment then we need a top manager to back it up Edited by mogsy
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Hafnia Grand Master

Hafnia

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/moyes-up-for-everton-return-but-club-keener-on-koeman-c769tvg9z

 

Newsflash... David Moyes would be good enough to consider us a challenge worthy of his rebuilding prowess.... he also talks about David Moyes in a 3rd person perspective. What an absolute tosser.

 

 

Just a little reminder of how things were towards the end of his original "rebuild"

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fcs-david-moyes-says-3374905

Edited by Hafnia
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