Ademola Lookman

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Your analogy doesn't work. He didn't just play on an U-8 team that won a YMCA league. As an Under 20’s World Cup winner, he's been identified as one of the brightest prospects in the emerging generation of top English players. You're right that it doesn't guarantee success, but I can't think of many better indicators of it.

Fixed it. 

[Hafnia]

Does anyone disagree that it's clear the kid wants to go and he could be a bit of a bad apple?

If he has talent and he can be worked with then he needs a few weeks training alone or with other kids or loaning to another club.

If the German club really want him then they need to long up the cash big time. 

[Newty82]

5 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Does anyone disagree that it's clear the kid wants to go and he could be a bit of a bad apple?

If he has talent and he can be worked with then he needs a few weeks training alone or with other kids or loaning to another club.

If the German club really want him then they need to long up the cash big time. 

I disagree that it's 'clear'

I've nothing to go on other than hear say. I'm just not the sort that makes conclusions without really knowing. Makes me feel uncomfortable. It's just not me I'm afraid. And I'm not uncomfortable admitting that.

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

I disagree that it's 'clear'

I've nothing to go on other than hear say. I'm just not the sort that makes conclusions without really knowing. Makes me feel uncomfortable. It's just not me I'm afraid. And I'm not uncomfortable admitting that.

Your not alone.

But Haf has a point as well. He is young and maybe a loan out is best for a hard knock manager, or to scrap it out in a lower league and learn a bit of modesty.

If he is a bad apple that is. I would just love to find out if he was actually injured or just out of the limelight. He was in that Digne video training wasn’t he? 

And ibteresting that he hasn’t been bracketed with Mirralas and company.

[Paddock]

 

No idea if these are reliable or not but make of it what you will. If he wants to stay and that’s his choice I’m delighted.

[StevO]

4 hours ago, hafnia said:

Does anyone disagree that it's clear the kid wants to go and he could be a bit of a bad apple?

If he has talent and he can be worked with then he needs a few weeks training alone or with other kids or loaning to another club.

If the German club really want him then they need to long up the cash big time. 

As he hasn’t said a single word, and no one at the club has said anything negative about him, I won’t believe he wants to go or he is a bad apple. 

[Bailey]

17 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Your analogy doesn't work. He didn't just play on an U-8 team that won a YMCA league. As a World Cup winner, he's been identified as one of the elite in the emerging generation of top English players. You're right that it doesn't guarantee success, but I can't think of many better indicators of it.

How many U20 world cup winners go on to make it as top 10 players in the top 5 or 6 leagues? 

[nyblue23]

18 minutes ago, Bailey said:

How many U20 world cup winners go on to make it as top 10 players in the top 5 or 6 leagues? 

I don’t think anyone has claimed he’s going to be a top 10 player in the top 5 or 6 leagues. That’s quite a jump from “has the potential to become a top class player.”

[Shukes]

I see what he means. Bad players don’t win World Cup medals at any level.

This doesn’t guarantee progress at all. But it does say that these players have a much better chance than most. If they have been chosen as the cream of them goer level, then they have a head start. They still need to work hats and develop, but they have the starting blocks already there.

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

I don’t think anyone has claimed he’s going to be a top 10 player in the top 5 or 6 leagues. That’s quite a jump from “has the potential to become a top class player.”

I know they haven't but ultimately that is what we are looking for for any of our young players and especially those that won the U20 WC. Of the 4 or 5 lads that played its not unreasonable to expect one of them to reach that level. I had a look at previous tournaments as I was intrigued and a few make it roughly between a 1/5th or 1/6th of the squad. I am pretty sure Connolly wont be one, so that makes the odds betteŕ!

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I see what he means. Bad players don’t win World Cup medals at any level.

This doesn’t guarantee progress at all. But it does say that these players have a much better chance than most. If they have been chosen as the cream of them goer level, then they have a head start. They still need to work hats and develop, but they have the starting blocks already there.

Agreed, they are clearly at the highest level at that age its just whether they continue that development or whether the level they are at is as good as it gets. 

[StevO]

Exactly Bailey, maybe one of the four or five makes it at elite level. If we are lucky. 

Its great these lads won the tournament, great for them, but to use it to add further expectations on their young shoulders, or to use it as a yard stick for where they should end up can only make it more difficult for them. They don’t need added pressure, it’s hard enough as a young player trying to make it at top level, but to now expect them to make it could make it quite tough when they have bad games. 

Evertonians are a nightmare for what we expect when a young player shows potential.

[Cornish Steve]

8 hours ago, Shukes said:

I see what he means. Bad players don’t win World Cup medals at any level.

This doesn’t guarantee progress at all. But it does say that these players have a much better chance than most. If they have been chosen as the cream of them goer level, then they have a head start. They still need to work hats and develop, but they have the starting blocks already there.

Exactly. Those who make it to a Premier team's youth program have maybe a 1% chance of making it. Those who play at the youth level for their country have maybe a 5% chance of making it. Those who win the World Cup for their country's youth team have maybe a 20% chance of making it. Lookman's already 20x more likely to succeed, so why throw that potential away?

Plus, we're never going to compete with the Top Six teams when it comes to money. The only realistic way to break into the current elite is to build a lasting legacy by carefully building a young team that sticks together for years. Lookman is just the type of player for such an approach. So is Calvert-Lewin. So is Davies. So is Holgate. So is Kenny. So is Dowell. So is Pickford. This is why I hated Crooked Sam's philosophy so much and could see the lasting damage he was doing. He set us back a year or so, but now we can return to a long-term strategy.

[Westlo]

On 03/08/2018 at 09:45, Cornish Steve said:

Your analogy doesn't work. He didn't just play on an U-8 team that won a YMCA league. As a World Cup winner, he's been identified as one of the elite in the emerging generation of top English players. You're right that it doesn't guarantee success, but I can't think of many better indicators of it.

 

Whats your opinion on Henrique Almeida? He's a World Cup winner and receiver of the Golden Ball as well!

 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Westlo said:

 

Whats your opinion on Henrique Almeida? He's a World Cup winner and receiver of the Golden Ball as well!

 

Haha someone had to find one. Ok it doesn’t always work

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Exactly. Those who make it to a Premier team's youth program have maybe a 1% chance of making it. Those who play at the youth level for their country have maybe a 5% chance of making it. Those who win the World Cup for their country's youth team have maybe a 20% chance of making it. Lookman's already 20x more likely to succeed, so why throw that potential away?

Plus, we're never going to compete with the Top Six teams when it comes to money. The only realistic way to break into the current elite is to build a lasting legacy by carefully building a young team that sticks together for years. Lookman is just the type of player for such an approach. So is Calvert-Lewin. So is Davies. So is Holgate. So is Kenny. So is Dowell. So is Pickford. This is why I hated Crooked Sam's philosophy so much and could see the lasting damage he was doing. He set us back a year or so, but now we can return to a long-term strategy.

Steve, you’ve just made them stats up

the 1% from premier league youth teams is about right but then you’ve just gone all Donald Trump to support the argument. 

What if Silva and Brands have seen him up close and just thinks he’s worth the profit more than the time to work on him?

for the record I want him to stay, think he has plenty of potential. 

[Newty82]

7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Exactly. Those who make it to a Premier team's youth program have maybe a 1% chance of making it. Those who play at the youth level for their country have maybe a 5% chance of making it. Those who win the World Cup for their country's youth team have maybe a 20% chance of making it. Lookman's already 20x more likely to succeed, so why throw that potential away?
 

Hahaha....this is classic Cornish!!!

[Newty82]

3 minutes ago, patto said:

If Ademola doesn't want to be here he will be a nightmare to be in the first team squad he's to much of a sulker it will be best to let go at a decent profit. 

How do you know he's a sulker?

If you watch the latest Everton Unseen video on YouTube, he's in amongst the senior players on their media day. He's also in amongst them in training etc on other videos. You've also got 4 players excluded from senior training as they are not wanted, plus Brands and Silva are gathering a reputation for being a bit ruthless...so where exactly are we getting that he may be troublesome, wants out and/or is a sulker?

We need to stop throwing mud. It's happening to often without us really knowing. 

[Bailey]

The reports are that he is staying now anyway so we can probably park this argument until January!

[Paddock]

20 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

How do you know he's a sulker?

If you watch the latest Everton Unseen video on YouTube, he's in amongst the senior players on their media day. He's also in amongst them in training etc on other videos. You've also got 4 players excluded from senior training as they are not wanted, plus Brands and Silva are gathering a reputation for being a bit ruthless...so where exactly are we getting that he may be troublesome, wants out and/or is a sulker?

We need to stop throwing mud. It's happening to often without us really knowing. 

He’s a sulker because we say he is dammit Newty

[Newty82]

40 minutes ago, Paddock said:

He’s a sulker because we say he is dammit Newty

Haha...yeah, I'm getting the jist of it now!!!

[Palfy]

Not sure but if he doesn't and yet he's able to train then he must surely of said he wants to leave, and we are waiting for the right offer and if it doesn't come this window he stays and plays in the U23 if necessary.

[StevO]

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Not sure but if he doesn't and yet he's able to train then he must surely of said he wants to leave, and we are waiting for the right offer and if it doesn't come this window he stays and plays in the U23 if necessary.

None of that even makes sense. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

None of that even makes sense. 

Why ?

[StevO]

The whole sentence doesn’t make sense  

So if he’s able to train he must have said he wants leave?

[Palfy]

32 minutes ago, StevO said:

The whole sentence doesn’t make sense  

So if he’s able to train he must have said he wants leave?

Yes a bit cryptic what I should have said was, if he is able to train that dismisses the theory he’s injured, if he doesn’t get a look in today we must assume that there is no smoke with out fire and he has asked for a transfer, and the fee we want has not yet been met. 

[Bailey]

11 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Yes a bit cryptic what I should have said was, if he is able to train that dismisses the theory he’s injured, if he doesn’t get a look in today we must assume that there is no smoke with out fire and he has asked for a transfer, and the fee we want has not yet been met. 

Now why didnt you just say that in the first place  

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Yes a bit cryptic what I should have said was, if he is able to train that dismisses the theory he’s injured, if he doesn’t get a look in today we must assume that there is no smoke with out fire and he has asked for a transfer, and the fee we want has not yet been met. 

That makes more sense now

Maybe he hasn’t asked to leave and was just nursing an injury. Time will tell. 

[StevO]

1 minute ago, patto said:

No sign of lookman he's on his way in my eyes 

He’s on the bench. 

[Cornish Steve]

7 hours ago, Shukes said:

Haha someone had to find one. Ok it doesn’t always work

I believe I wrote that about 20% are likely to succeed. You searched for one in the 80% group.

[Newty82]

33 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I believe I wrote that about 20% are likely to succeed. You searched for one in the 80% group.

Be interesting to know who is in the 20% group. Seriously.