Paddock Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 I'd rather win everything whilst being Everton. If I want to see things won by a team that cheats, then it's not Everton. No ones saying we should cheat our way to anything but we should do exactly the same as all the other teams do- anything we can to win. Suarez isn't just a cheat- he's a world class footballer who wins you games singlehandedly without cheating. Ronaldo dives, would you not want him, Tierry Henry cheated for France would you not of wanted him. Players are driven to win and I want players like that at Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 I consider myself a nice lad and was a hard but fair player on the pitch but I did a couple of players. One was absolutely awful - he timed the jump for an aerial ball better so I went through him with my head after he had headed the ball. It looked like an accidental clash of heads but at the split second I just made a poor decision- a nasty one. He was carried off and I pretended I was injured to escape punishment. Another one - a lad tried to do me so I went higher on him and off he went. Totally out of character is the usual defence.... no I was being a nob and it's inexcusable and football can bring it out. You can't blame football for that! You assaulted someone deliberately and that is inexcusable. No different than someone blaming alcohol after punching them. You being a nob is an understatement on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 A fella I talk to Harry beech (played for Bolton and Southport- his ex wife married Alan ball) told me he played against both players... he said Morrissey was one of the hardest players he ever faced... not right in the head he said. Bobby Collins knocked Harry out... elbow to the jaw. Bought him a pint after the game as an apology. Different game back then. The hardest he faced was some player from Coventry. Forgotten his name. You or JohnH might know. I asked him about playing against George best... he said he was on the same pitch but never got near him. From memory, I would say the Coventry hard man was Maurice Setters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 The whole debate is really about the hypocrisy of it all... The hot headed tribalness of the game means the when mori did origi I probably thought "take that... and have a bit of our badge in your face". Then you reflect and think "maybe that was bad"... So let's not get all pious over Suarez... i'd love for him to play for us. If you would object to suarez playing for us then frankly you are nuts. Im not going to accuse someone of being less of fan but come on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 The whole debate is really about the hypocrisy of it all... The hot headed tribalness of the game means the when mori did origi I probably thought "take that... and have a bit of our badge in your face". Then you reflect and think "maybe that was bad"... So let's not get all pious over Suarez... i'd love for him to play for us. If you would object to suarez playing for us then frankly you are nuts. Im not going to accuse someone of being less of fan but come on... Nothing to do with hypocrisy, just difference of opinions. I would never be happy with a Costa, Suarez, Ronaldo, Muller playing for us, because they cheat on a very regular basis, despite their extreme talent - they are competitors in a very unsportsmanlike fashion. Plus, for each of them, there's a Messi, Aguero, Eriksson, Dzecko who have the same ability but play the game, not the officials. But again, all in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 You can't blame football for that! You assaulted someone deliberately and that is inexcusable. No different than someone blaming alcohol after punching them. You being a nob is an understatement on this topic. Not like you to pass up on an opportunity to stick the boot in is it? The point being the "decision" was made in a split second... I never had half an hour to decide on it. Wasn't premeditated... I was playing football in ellesmere port against a team where I had previously had my eye gouged and my mate actually had a chunk bitten out of his shoulder... not a little nibble. I'm a fair character but yes in these two incidents I made a bad call. It happens. I played probably 250 games and never got 1 red card... got booked 3 times and that's it. Try find another way of insulting me should you wish. But don't have a go at me for being honest. I'm expressing how football is spontaneous and things like this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 From memory, I would say the Coventry hard man was Maurice Setters. He said the player ended up as chairman or on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Not like you to pass up on an opportunity to stick the boot in is it? The point being the "decision" was made in a split second... I never had half an hour to decide on it. Wasn't premeditated... I was playing football in ellesmere port against a team where I had previously had my eye gouged and my mate actually had a chunk bitten out of his shoulder... not a little nibble. I'm a fair character but yes in these two incidents I made a bad call. It happens. I played probably 250 games and never got 1 red card... got booked 3 times and that's it. Try find another way of insulting me should you wish. But don't have a go at me for being honest. I'm expressing how football is spontaneous and things like this happen. great pun use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) To Barry.... I think you're way off the mark there. In game, there are moments when you get carried away (so much depends on how the game is going, importance, etc). If you do it once or twice (provided it's not personal) it can be chalked up to emotion in the game. You should apologise immediately, at latest end of the game. No idea if Haf did, but the way I read it, it was a random act I nearly broke my best friends dads nose playing on an astro-turf pitch that had sand on; I slipped and hit him hard (this is a guy I'd known for 15 years at this point). It wasn't malicious, it was a complete accident. For all the other mistakes I've made playing, I held my hands up immediately and offered to be subbed. Bit different being a nippy winger though, been on the receiving end of many a bad tackle (bar one, everyone apologised) Edited July 24, 2017 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 another example. My dad has crooked front teeth because someone he was playing against warned him to stop making a fool of him - he was skinin him down the wing. Dad, kept going and ended up with a knuckle sandwich for his efforts. The guy apologized and took him out for a drink. They were friends from then on Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Ill throw a few names into the mix and sit back and enjoy some popcorn: Gravesen Linderoth Gough Unsworth Materazzi Edited July 24, 2017 by Peter H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 The whole debate is really about the hypocrisy of it all... The hot headed tribalness of the game means the when mori did origi I probably thought "take that... and have a bit of our badge in your face". Then you reflect and think "maybe that was bad"... So let's not get all pious over Suarez... i'd love for him to play for us. If you would object to suarez playing for us then frankly you are nuts. Im not going to accuse someone of being less of fan but come on... I wouldn't touch Suarez with a stick. Had he not been at the kopites he'd have been banned for life. Shouldn't be allowed to make a living on a football pitch. Look at his one on Distin and it's worlds apart from Mori's. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Ill throw a few names into the mix and sit back and enjoy som popcorn: Gravesen Linderoth Gough Unsworth Materazzi Duncan Ferguson was idolised by our fans for being a thug. We have no room to take the moral high ground. markjazzbassist, aaron, Matt and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 I wouldn't touch Suarez with a stick. Had he not been at the kopites he'd have been banned for life. Shouldn't be allowed to make a living on a football pitch. Look at his one on Distin and it's worlds apart from Mori's. Pete seriously... I hate Liverpool but ffs stop allowing it to cloud your views. Suarez did Distin and mirallas... mirallas got him back next game and to be fair sure gave him a smirk as if to say "I was owed that" You think he would have been banned for life? Stop talking nonsense. Cantona assaulted a person in the crowd and didn't get banned for life. Maradona kneed a player in the face, shearer booted Lennon in the head. Stop letting your hatred of Liverpool cloud your views. I admire your hatred of them but seriously dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Girders in the summer transfer thread. Only at TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 If I ever had cause for a bit of retaliation (which seemed to be often in the Yorkshire League of the 1950's/60's) I always had the good sense to do it about 5 minutes from full-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Duncan Ferguson was idolised by our fans for being a thug. We have no room to take the moral high ground. some fans. anyone who gets a kick out of seeing Big Dunc throttle someone needs to have their head checked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Pete seriously... I hate Liverpool but ffs stop allowing it to cloud your views. Suarez did Distin and mirallas... mirallas got him back next game and to be fair sure gave him a smirk as if to say "I was owed that" You think he would have been banned for life? Stop talking nonsense. Cantona assaulted a person in the crowd and didn't get banned for life. Maradona kneed a player in the face, shearer booted Lennon in the head. Stop letting your hatred of Liverpool cloud your views. I admire your hatred of them but seriously dude... You only have to look at my fantasy team to know I'm not that stubborn to let it cloud my judgement. They're are mostly one offs for them players. Although I'd say Shearer should've had more bans for his snide elbows. Suarez has consistently broke the rules, and not just one off heat of the moment stuff. He's an absolute disgrace. Charlie Adam is the only other player I can think of who's close to being as scummy as him. So you think cheating is okay and should not be actioned on? Edited July 24, 2017 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 You only have to look at my fantasy team to know I'm not that stubborn to let it cloud my judgement. They're are mostly one offs for them players. Although I'd say Shearer should've had more bans for his snide elbows. Suarez has consistently broke the rules, and not just one off heat of the moment stuff. He's an absolute disgrace. Charlie Adam is the only other player I can think of who's close to being as scummy as him. So you think cheating is okay and should not be actioned on? Is cheating ok and shouldn't be actioned on? Not sure where I've said that... because I'm pretty certain I haven't. What i have said is that many players for many teams push it... they get too involved and cross the line. It has happened since the game was invented and won't end any time soon. If you like to believe that all naughty players somehow play for Liverpool and we as Everton have rosy faced little cherubs playing for us then feel free. There are far worse players than Suarez- adam is one of them, ben thatcher, wise, Keane, Michael Brown, the list is endless... Don't let your hatred of Liverpool poison your judgement. Suarez is a horrible opponent, niggly, diving, brilliant, dirty, calculated.... i'd have him playing for us no problem. Just like loads of Everton fans were happy to have pat van den hauwe- I watched him elbow nico classen from 10ft away... how he never broke his jaw is a miracle. Pure unprovoked assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 For those who believe that winning is everything and that it's OK to cheat if others cheat... Would you be happy with your child stealing exam questions in advance so they can pass that exam with an 'A'? Would you be willing to bully a teacher or headmaster and make personal threats in order to improve your child's grade? Are you the type of person who'll offer a bribe in order to win business because other companies do it? Would you work via cash in hand while claiming unemployment money from the government? Frankly, I don't understand, and will never buy into, the idea that the end justifies the means. No it does not. If we have no principles, what does that say about us as human beings, let alone fans? Our principles define us. They also define teams. Matt and Makis 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 For those who believe that winning is everything and that it's OK to cheat if others cheat... Would you be happy with your child stealing exam questions in advance so they can pass that exam with an 'A'? Would you be willing to bully a teacher or headmaster and make personal threats in order to improve your child's grade? Are you the type of person who'll offer a bribe in order to win business because other companies do it? Would you work via cash in hand while claiming unemployment money from the government? Frankly, I don't understand, and will never buy into, the idea that the end justifies the means. No it does not. If we have no principles, what does that say about us as human beings, let alone fans? Our principles define us. They also define teams.Apparently that's not cheating. It's pushing it, and okay because the other kids do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 For those who believe that winning is everything and that it's OK to cheat if others cheat... Would you be happy with your child stealing exam questions in advance so they can pass that exam with an 'A'? Would you be willing to bully a teacher or headmaster and make personal threats in order to improve your child's grade? Are you the type of person who'll offer a bribe in order to win business because other companies do it? Would you work via cash in hand while claiming unemployment money from the government? Frankly, I don't understand, and will never buy into, the idea that the end justifies the means. No it does not. If we have no principles, what does that say about us as human beings, let alone fans? Our principles define us. They also define teams. Missing the point entirely Steve. We are not talking about cheating, we are not talking about threatening referees or bullying them, we are not talking about bribery or breaking the law.... Not really sure what it is that you are suggesting that we are advocating.... I think somewhere along the lines of us saying that some extraordinarily gifted footballers who can win you games of football single handedly means you may need to tolerate their maverick ways as a consequence of their single minded ways. Not one person has said we want to sign Suarez because he has bitten someone... we would want him cos he's a bloody great player. aaron, Romey 1878 and Lowensda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Missing the point entirely Steve. We are not talking about cheating, we are not talking about threatening referees or bullying them, we are not talking about bribery or breaking the law.... Not really sure what it is that you are suggesting that we are advocating.... I think somewhere along the lines of us saying that some extraordinarily gifted footballers who can win you games of football single handedly means you may need to tolerate their maverick ways as a consequence of their single minded ways. Not one person has said we want to sign Suarez because he has bitten someone... we would want him cos he's a bloody great player. But aren't you making a trade-off here? No-one will excuse Charlie Adam's awful behavior because he's not one of the top ten players in the world, but we'll excuse Suarez because he is one of the top players. I'm reminded of a joke I heard years ago, because it makes the point well. A man meets a woman on the train. After a short while, he asks, "Would you sleep with me for 5,000 pounds?" She thinks for a moment and replies, "yes". Then the man asks, "Would you sleep with me for 5 pounds?" The woman takes offence: "What type of woman do you think I am?" The man shrugs his shoulders: "I thought we'd already established that and were now haggling about the price." Would you take Suarez despite him being a nasty cheat? Yes. Would you take Charlie Adam despite him being a nasty cheat? No. Why not? We already established that you're willing to recruit nasty cheats. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Maradona, single handily knocked out England from the World Cup. Would you turn down him in his prime because he did that? No you defiantly wouldn't. Players will differ, some will be horrible bastards, some will be princesses, some will be sneaky little fucks. Providing they are helping Everton win, and not hindering them from that, I couldn't give a shit. Fuck all to do with letting my kid cheat on an exam or committing fraud / bribery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 But aren't you making a trade-off here? No-one will excuse Charlie Adam's awful behavior because he's not one of the top ten players in the world, but we'll excuse Suarez because he is one of the top players. I'm reminded of a joke I heard years ago, because it makes the point well. A man meets a woman on the train. After a short while, he asks, "Would you sleep with me for 5,000 pounds?" She thinks for a moment and replies, "yes". Then the man asks, "Would you sleep with me for 5 pounds?" The woman takes offence: "What type of woman do you think I am?" The man shrugs his shoulders: "I thought we'd already established that and were now haggling about the price." Would you take Suarez despite him being a nasty cheat? Yes. Would you take Charlie Adam despite him being a nasty cheat? No. Why not? We already established that you're willing to recruit nasty cheats. Because Charlie Adam wont win you a trophy. Saurez nearly led the shite to the title. Major difference there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Is cheating ok and shouldn't be actioned on? Not sure where I've said that... because I'm pretty certain I haven't. What i have said is that many players for many teams push it... they get too involved and cross the line. It has happened since the game was invented and won't end any time soon. If you like to believe that all naughty players somehow play for Liverpool and we as Everton have rosy faced little cherubs playing for us then feel free. There are far worse players than Suarez- adam is one of them, ben thatcher, wise, Keane, Michael Brown, the list is endless... Don't let your hatred of Liverpool poison your judgement. Suarez is a horrible opponent, niggly, diving, brilliant, dirty, calculated.... i'd have him playing for us no problem. Just like loads of Everton fans were happy to have pat van den hauwe- I watched him elbow nico classen from 10ft away... how he never broke his jaw is a miracle. Pure unprovoked assault. Pretty sure I was vocal on Pienaar being a dirty sod. How are they worse? They've all been guilty of intentionally injuring another player. Suarez goes one further and cheats to get players sent off, even bites them to wind them up. I don't want any player who gives it but can't take it, more so if they are a cheat. If a kid acted like that playing on a saturday morning you'd question his parents for not bringing him up right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Because Charlie Adam wont win you a trophy. Saurez nearly led the shite to the title. Major difference there. You proved the point. You're willing to accept a nasty cheat if he's good enough on the pitch. Sorry, but that's not for me. I won't compromise on principle. Maybe that's a weakness, but so be it. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 At this point I'm hoping the club announce Grosicki or Bony to get us off this topic. This is turning into Rom thread II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Duncan Ferguson was idolised by our fans for being a thug. We have no room to take the moral high ground. No he was not, don't be so silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 No he was not, don't be so silly. Yes he was- Ferguson was put on a pedestal and adored by fans for strangling Freund Evertonians had it as Avis all over Twitter and still do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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