Dele

[plaidharper]

Highly doubt he plays another game for us.  Journos are just bored.

[FairWooney]

3 hours ago, Elston Gunnn said:

A major part of our goal-scoring problem is that we have several attack minded midfielders, but none of whom has thus far shown any consistency whatsoever in being able to kick the ball straight toward the goal.

And in Gana’s case, we have a DCM who wants to be an ACM, and so is also attack minded, but who also can’t kick it straight.

The central image I have from all our attacking midfielders is — hands on head, shocked look of disbelief that they’d missed what should have been a pretty easy shot.  And the second image I have is them failing to get in the box for a cross.

I wouldn't agree on that.

Onana isn't particularly attacking, not that I've really seen.  He put in a tackle, is ok a distributing the ball but isn't particularly creative or isn't really getting between lines or into spaces in attack to make things happen very often.

Gana doesn't particularly show he wants to be an ACM.  He gets into a position to launch one over the bar every now and then but generally sits back.

Garner is also someone who isn't particularly attacking, he can pop up around the box and take a shot, he can pick a decent pass but he's not looking to push forward with the ball

Doucoure is fairly attacking and at the moment is best placed to be the attacking one of those 3 but not exactly creating a lot, unlocking a defense to play others in or running at defenses. 

.

 

[Elston Gunnn]

28 minutes ago, FairWooney said:

I wouldn't agree on that.

Onana isn't particularly attacking, not that I've really seen.  He put in a tackle, is ok a distributing the ball but isn't particularly creative or isn't really getting between lines or into spaces in attack to make things happen very often.

Gana doesn't particularly show he wants to be an ACM.  He gets into a position to launch one over the bar every now and then but generally sits back.

Garner is also someone who isn't particularly attacking, he can pop up around the box and take a shot, he can pick a decent pass but he's not looking to push forward with the ball

Doucoure is fairly attacking and at the moment is best placed to be the attacking one of those 3 but not exactly creating a lot, unlocking a defense to play others in or running at defenses. 

.

 

It’s a fair disagreement, and I concede my comments may reflect irritation with missed shots and failure to get men in the box more than careful analysis, so I appreciate your perspective.

I do still disagree about a couple of points.  First, and especially about Gana, with whom I am constantly irritated at what I see as his too-frequent forays as a box-to-box player.  Which I do not think should be his role.  Unlike you, my sense is, not exactly that he wants to be an ACM, but that he definitely does want to get forward, undoubtedly “only” in support of, well, I guess Doucouré and Iwobi.  But it seems too often that when the ball loops free just outside the box, who’s there to blast it, high or wide, but Gana.  Perhaps I’m just remembering 2-3 such moments, and exaggerating their frequency.  But not the failures.  When, very infrequntly, Gana hits the ball straight toward the net, it’s a big surprise.  He’s not a shooter.

As to Onana, my impression is that late season Dyche wanted him to press forward much more actively than earlier in the season, not necessarily because he’s good as an attacker, but because Dyche had no one more effective.  That is, no one, period, who was effective as a central attacker.  I agree with you that he’s not shown much creativity or ability to make things happen, but in effect, late season, he seemed to be an “attacker,” if a misplaced one.

i didn’t mention Garner, but agree with you that he shows more promise as a “controlling midfielder” than as an attacker.

And I agree with you that Doucouré was, late season, the best of our “attackers.”  But I will also say I was stunned — very pleasantly so — by his Brighton goals, especially the stunning stunner.

 

 

[Bailey]

Garner is the closest of those players of being able to be a creative attacking player. I think he can do a lot because he is a clever footballer and he reads the game well. 

Onana could be used as a direct, powerful attacker but its not his best attribute. He can play a decent through ball, but he isn't a goal scorer at all. 

Doucoure is similar to Onana but he has more of an eye for goal and finding that space or making that run. His attacking ability comes from his dynamism and timing.

Gana is never an attacking player. Ever. Chain him to the half way line. 

[Shukes]

Onana will be a defensive midfielder. 
His natural game is to sit there and try to link defence and midfield.

Doucoure isn’t an attacking player at all. But Dyche has been very smart and realised that he does have energy and can be the high press. He forces players into mistakes, which creates chances. 
His finishing is terrible as far as chances converted (not to be confused with conversion rate) as he trips over himself far more than he gets a shot off. But when he does….. history is history.

Gana is not an attacking player at all, though he often played a box to box for PSG. 
 

Garner is frustrating as people say he can shoot. But he just doesn’t do it, or hasn’t so far. But again, I don’t think his natural game is an attacking midfielder…. But rather the type that receives a ball and sprays it out.

We LACK attacking midfielders. Until we bring more in, it would be foolish to let anymore go.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Gana is never an attacking player. Ever. Chain him to the half way line. 

Chain him to the dressing room toilet. 

[Goodison Glory]

7 hours ago, Shukes said:

Onana will be a defensive midfielder. 
His natural game is to sit there and try to link defence and midfield.

Doucoure isn’t an attacking player at all. But Dyche has been very smart and realised that he does have energy and can be the high press. He forces players into mistakes, which creates chances. 
His finishing is terrible as far as chances converted (not to be confused with conversion rate) as he trips over himself far more than he gets a shot off. But when he does….. history is history.

Gana is not an attacking player at all, though he often played a box to box for PSG. 
 

Garner is frustrating as people say he can shoot. But he just doesn’t do it, or hasn’t so far. But again, I don’t think his natural game is an attacking midfielder…. But rather the type that receives a ball and sprays it out.

We LACK attacking midfielders. Until we bring more in, it would be foolish to let anymore go.

What is the difference between chances converted and conversion rate?

[Romey 1878]

12 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

What is the difference between chances converted and conversion rate?

You're asking for trouble wanting Shukes to explain something. On your own head be it.

[Haiku]

12 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

What is the difference between chances converted and conversion rate?

chances converted = x

conversion rate = x/total chances

[plaidharper]

[Palfy]

13 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

What is the difference between chances converted and conversion rate?

When he was at Watford Doucoure was very forward thinking in his approach and was rewarded with some cracking goals. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

You're asking for trouble wanting Shukes to explain something. On your own head be it.

Over your head be it, no?

[Bailey]

21 hours ago, Palfy said:

Chain him to the dressing room toilet. 

By all means, if that is what you are into

[Bailey]

21 hours ago, Shukes said:

Onana will be a defensive midfielder. 
His natural game is to sit there and try to link defence and midfield.

Doucoure isn’t an attacking player at all. But Dyche has been very smart and realised that he does have energy and can be the high press. He forces players into mistakes, which creates chances. 
His finishing is terrible as far as chances converted (not to be confused with conversion rate) as he trips over himself far more than he gets a shot off. But when he does….. history is history.

Gana is not an attacking player at all, though he often played a box to box for PSG. 
 

Garner is frustrating as people say he can shoot. But he just doesn’t do it, or hasn’t so far. But again, I don’t think his natural game is an attacking midfielder…. But rather the type that receives a ball and sprays it out.

We LACK attacking midfielders. Until we bring more in, it would be foolish to let anymore go.

I disagree about Doucoure. He isnt your usual attacking player and he generally has the technique of a drunk giraffe but the lad knows how to pop up in the final third and get on the end of things. He did it for Watford, did it for us under Benitez and again for Dyche. 

[Romey 1878]

44 minutes ago, Matt said:

Over your head be it, no?

Over Shukes' head for sure, but it's definitely on your own head be it.

[Shukes]

15 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

What is the difference between chances converted and conversion rate?

Chances converted are getting your shots in and scoring them. Ball comes into you, and you trip over.

Should have probably called it Chances converted into efforts.

Conversion rate is how many of those chances actually end up in goals. Which to be fair I think if he gets an effort in, his conversion rate is pretty good for his position.

Bit he gets that many balls i to him that he tripped over and somehow manages to turn a chance of a shot into a pass back to our own goalkeeper.

[Shukes]

3 hours ago, Haiku said:

chances converted = x

conversion rate = x/total chances

Or what Haiku said…. That’s looks so much smarter than mine.

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I disagree about Doucoure. He isnt your usual attacking player and he generally has the technique of a drunk giraffe but the lad knows how to pop up in the final third and get on the end of things. He did it for Watford, did it for us under Benitez and again for Dyche. 

Mate, how many times have you saw him in the box in his own with just the keeper to beat… and somehow he manages to kick the ball onto his own nose, that then dribbles down his body to hit his knee and go out for a throw in.

He is doing a job for us there and when he hits them, they stay hit. 
But not in any world would I call him an attacking creative player. 
He is a high press player.

[Palfy]

20 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Mate, how many times have you saw him in the box in his own with just the keeper to beat… and somehow he manages to kick the ball onto his own nose, that then dribbles down his body to hit his knee and go out for a throw in.

He is doing a job for us there and when he hits them, they stay hit. 
But not in any world would I call him an attacking creative player. 
He is a high press player.

You need watch the videos of him playing for Watford Shukes the are still available to view, you might be surprised at how attacking he can be for a MF and some of the goals he scored for them he was the furthest player in the box, he has been used to play a different style for us as the main man in the engine room because of his unbelievable energy. But he definitely has the ability to play as a forward MF. Personally I think he’s very underrated he has lots to offer in both directions on the pitch attacking and defensive. 

[Shukes]

I didn’t take much notice of him for Watford so I’ll take your work for it mate.

Maybe this coming season we’ll see more of it with Dyche. I do like him as a player so would be happy to wrong on this one.

[MikeO]

39 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I didn’t take much notice of him for Watford so I’ll take your work for it mate.

I didn't either, in fact I'd no idea Dele ever played for Watford.

[Gwlad]

Could he reignite his enthusiasm for the game out of the Premier league? Maybe a League 1 club where he could get back on track without the spotlight on him. Could do him a favour.

[Sibdane]

I think if our current manager says the door is open (in my own words), and they have had talks, then we have to consider he’s worth a chance. I don’t think he’s over or under-rated; he’s simply a player who has lost his way. It’s crazy to think that years ago we would be clawing for a player of his caliber. Don’t get me wrong, as I have low expectations, but let’s see what happens. Either way, we’re saddled with him for the time being, so let’s be optimistic. 

Wait, I forgot this is Everton. 

[Newty82]

9 hours ago, Gwlad all over said:

Could he reignite his enthusiasm for the game out of the Premier league? Maybe a League 1 club where he could get back on track without the spotlight on him. Could do him a favour.

Classic TT moment for me here...Reading the previous few posts, I thought we were in the Doucs thread.

Then thought what the fuck is Gwlad on about here? Random bastard

[Romey 1878]

13 hours ago, Gwlad all over said:

Could he reignite his enthusiasm for the game out of the Premier league? Maybe a League 1 club where he could get back on track without the spotlight on him. Could do him a favour.

He's just been out of the Premier League in Turkey.

[Palfy]

14 hours ago, MikeO said:

I didn't either, in fact I'd no idea Dele ever played for Watford.

Point taken boss

[Bailey]

16 hours ago, Shukes said:

Mate, how many times have you saw him in the box in his own with just the keeper to beat… and somehow he manages to kick the ball onto his own nose, that then dribbles down his body to hit his knee and go out for a throw in.

He is doing a job for us there and when he hits them, they stay hit. 
But not in any world would I call him an attacking creative player. 
He is a high press player.

He definitely isnt creative but attacking players come in different ways. We had Fellaini and Cahill as a strike partnership for a couple of years and they were extremely limited in creativity and technique. 

I think he can see and read how the attacks develop even if he can't actually make it happen.

I do agree he is a high press player as well.

[Shukes]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

He definitely isnt creative but attacking players come in different ways. We had Fellaini and Cahill as a strike partnership for a couple of years and they were extremely limited in creativity and technique. 

I think he can see and read how the attacks develop even if he can't actually make it happen.

I do agree he is a high press player as well.

Haha I also can do that. I’m actually very skilled at knowing what should be done. 
 

Like ordering tickets for a match. Having seven needed and knowing I need seven.

Fuck knows how I managed to forget a kid and order six. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2023/06/18/everton-could-unlock-dele-alli-ability-with-new-pippa-grance-link-up-martin-samuel/

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.goodisonnews.com/2023/06/18/everton-could-unlock-dele-alli-ability-with-new-pippa-grance-link-up-martin-samuel/

If this story has any merit to it then surely there is nothing standing in the way of Ali seeking the help from Grange himself, he has the money and the need so what’s the problem he should have been there 2 years ago, and he doesn’t need anyone’s permission to seek counselling if he feels he needs it.