Dele

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

If this story has any merit to it then surely there is nothing standing in the way of Ali seeking the help from Grange himself, he has the money and the need so what’s the problem he should have been there 2 years ago, and he doesn’t need anyone’s permission to seek counselling if he feels he needs it. 

That's the problem with depression though. Knowing you probably need to and being able to arrange things are 2 different things. 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, Matt said:

That's the problem with depression though. Knowing you probably need to and being able to arrange things are 2 different things. 

You are probably 100% right yet not knowingly knowing if I have suffered depression or not even though I have been through low periods in my life, I would hope that my family and those closest to me would take control and make the call if I wasn’t capable. My problem with the article is everyone has known about it for sometime yet we are to believe nobody’s done anything about it, and some how the onus has been placed on the manager and the club if you believe the author of the article. And yet there seems to be no definite evidence as to what his problem is only pure speculation.  

[Btay]

Absolutely agree with Matt’s post above. For me personally the couple of a years after my mother passed away in 2016 were horrific but at the time I didn’t realise how poorly I was treating myself, I’d self sabotage good things that came in to my life, suicide ideation and generally not myself. Not until about 18/24 months ago have I started to feel myself and reflect on poor my mental state was. Horrible thing to go through and it takes an incredibly strong person to face it, instead of just riding it out - in my opinion.

[Bailey]

I would be astonished if Alli hasn't seen a counsellor before now. 

As with anything though, its all about how much he wants to change and improve. 

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I would be astonished if Alli hasn't seen a counsellor before now. 

As with anything though, its all about how much he wants to change and improve. 

I'm sure he has, which clearly didn't help. He could be beyond help, but it's not normal to have a single therapist and get the answers you need. I've had 6 to get through certain events and none so far have given me the perfect answer. They have all given me bits and pieces that I've put together to be ok enough to get through the day most days. 

So long as he doesn't give up then it has to be tried. It's the only reason I'm still here. 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

I'm sure he has, which clearly didn't help. He could be beyond help, but it's not normal to have a single therapist and get the answers you need. I've had 6 to get through certain events and none so far have given me the perfect answer. They have all given me bits and pieces that I've put together to be ok enough to get through the day most days. 

So long as he doesn't give up then it has to be tried. It's the only reason I'm still here. 

That want to change has to come from within. You wanted to and that is why you kept searching. 

Alli can go and see all the therapists under the sun but if he isnt listening it wont help him. I am sure he has had more than his share of medical and non-medical words of wisdom from a variety of different sources. 

Whatever is going on with him, and we don't know if anything genuinely is, then he has the support and resources he needs. There are plenty of people out there who don't, who can't afford private help,  have been failed by the NHS services and/or have no family/friend network to fall back on and have to keep going and going until they break. 

[Cornish Steve]

19 hours ago, Btay said:

Absolutely agree with Matt’s post above. For me personally the couple of a years after my mother passed away in 2016 were horrific but at the time I didn’t realise how poorly I was treating myself, I’d self sabotage good things that came in to my life, suicide ideation and generally not myself. Not until about 18/24 months ago have I started to feel myself and reflect on poor my mental state was. Horrible thing to go through and it takes an incredibly strong person to face it, instead of just riding it out - in my opinion.

And depression is NOT a personal weakness! It takes real courage and, as you say, strength, to accept depression and embrace the help of others. If Dele can come through these difficult years and contribute to Everton's success in the coming season, it will be a huge and inspiring success. I really hope this happens.

[Haiku]

After watching the press conference featuring Nikola Jokic, the current NBA championship winner and Finals MVP with the Denver Nuggets, where he said, "Nobody likes his job", it made me wonder if Dele doesn't like his job either. Professional sports can be far from enjoyable. It's one thing to play football with your friends on a cool Friday afternoon, but playing at a pro level is mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausting. I believe Dele is preparing for a life after professional football, and I can see him retiring before too long.

[Matt]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

That want to change has to come from within. You wanted to and that is why you kept searching. 

Alli can go and see all the therapists under the sun but if he isnt listening it wont help him. I am sure he has had more than his share of medical and non-medical words of wisdom from a variety of different sources. 

Whatever is going on with him, and we don't know if anything genuinely is, then he has the support and resources he needs. There are plenty of people out there who don't, who can't afford private help,  have been failed by the NHS services and/or have no family/friend network to fall back on and have to keep going and going until they break. 

I really didn't want to change, I wanted to be dead in separate 2 periods of my life. It took a seizure from a panic attack to put me in hospital and then I was watched like a hawk. Daily follow ups and sessions for months, then eventually it became "voluntary" because I'd upset my wife so much I forced myself out of guilt, not a desire to improve. It was a slog but I was forced through it (therapy). Insomnia, drink, stress, unreal expectations from work, friends and family... all the little things combine and before you know it there's pills like zolpidem and antidepressants that make things worse than ever to the point I started drinking with the sleeping pills in the hope I wouldn't wake up. 

It got easier when I stopped drinking 2.5 years ago, but there's still a daily fight in my head to not just keep walking into the sea. Sobriety makes it easier to resist but it's still there and my last attempt at therapy (CBT) was a waste of time. Its not a question of not listening, it's not getting the right feedback.

So apologies if I'm a bit defensive over depression, everyone. When I see people quoting "hes got the money, resource, etc", you show that you simply do not understand what depression does and actually means. You may think you do, but chances are you don't. Depression doesn't care about money or fame, it's not respectful of status or skin colour. If it gets its roots in you, it's as stubborn as a weed that keeps coming back despite you pulling it out from the stem. Depression is fucking ruthless and determined. 

[Matt]

9 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

And depression is NOT a personal weakness! It takes real courage and, as you say, strength, to accept depression and embrace the help of others. If Dele can come through these difficult years and contribute to Everton's success in the coming season, it will be a huge and inspiring success. I really hope this happens.

Contributing to our success would be a nice bonus, but it's not the goal. Otherwise, spot on. 

[Palfy]

And that’s the crux of the matter nobody bar him and maybe 1 or 2 others no what his issues are, there are a multitude of things that could be going on that’s led to him being at the place he is. I don’t know if it’s depression, falling out of love with the game, just can’t be bothered to put the hard work in, or wants to enjoy the party life with mates, or anything else that I haven’t guessed at. But as a supporter of Everton and not a psychologist he has been an absolute expensive disaster that we should never have bought, what we need to do imo is negotiate the termination of his contract and try and use what left if any on a player that may give us something in return for our expenditure.  

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

And that’s the crux of the matter nobody bar him and maybe 1 or 2 others no what his issues are, there are a multitude of things that could be going on that’s led to him being at the place he is. I don’t know if it’s depression, falling out of love with the game, just can’t be bothered to put the hard work in, or wants to enjoy the party life with mates, or anything else that I haven’t guessed at. But as a supporter of Everton and not a psychologist he has been an absolute expensive disaster that we should never have bought, what we need to do imo is negotiate the termination of his contract and try and use what left if any on a player that may give us something in return for our expenditure.  

Sorry Palf, but that's exactly what my employers did to me. It's not and never acceptable. 

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

That want to change has to come from within. You wanted to and that is why you kept searching. 

Alli can go and see all the therapists under the sun but if he isnt listening it wont help him. I am sure he has had more than his share of medical and non-medical words of wisdom from a variety of different sources. 

Whatever is going on with him, and we don't know if anything genuinely is, then he has the support and resources he needs. There are plenty of people out there who don't, who can't afford private help,  have been failed by the NHS services and/or have no family/friend network to fall back on and have to keep going and going until they break. 

The change that comes from within doesn’t exist in depression.  Depression sneaks its way in and becomes a part of you.   Part of depressions sneakiness is the ability to make the person who has it “get on with it and deny”.  By the time you notice it - it’s the stage where you feel desperate. 

I’m lucky that I talk about depression, I’ve been open with friends, received counselling, take a low dose of Sertraline to keep me at a level that doesn’t blunt me but takes the edge off. 
 

I couldn’t imagine being in the public eye at a stage in my life where all I wanted to do was stare at the wall next to my bed. 

 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Sorry Palf, but that's exactly what my employers did to me. It's not and never acceptable. 

No it’s not acceptable if he has been diagnosed with depression, but my point is has he been diagnosed with depression it’s never been stated as a fact by him or a doctor in that field. Would the club have bought him if he had clinical depression I’m assuming not, Matt you are bringing your own reality of what I would say in your case was severe depression by reading your story, and trying to show comparable evidence that he has the same symptoms, yet that hasn’t been proven and as far as I’m aware it is pure speculation, like I said there could be multiple reasons for his demise, and I say that not with any intention of belittling you or anyone else who has and is still suffering mental illness. But until we know the true facts we shouldn’t be speculating on the seriousness of any illness he may or may not. And what we can’t forget in all this is that we are football club that is paying a player a considerable amount of money for a service that we aren’t getting. And if he does have a mental health illness then I would assume but I don’t know for sure he would be better off taking himself away from the spotlight and doing we ever he needs to do to become the best he can be, and then if he chooses return to football and he may enjoy and feel the pleasure again. Again please don’t think what I’m saying is an attack on mental illness mate, I know to well that it exists in varying degrees, my adulation, respect, and love go with you Matt on your journey to fulfilment and happiness. 

[Matt]

23 minutes ago, Palfy said:

No it’s not acceptable if he has been diagnosed with depression, but my point is has he been diagnosed with depression it’s never been stated as a fact by him or a doctor in that field. Would the club have bought him if he had clinical depression I’m assuming not, Matt you are bringing your own reality of what I would say in your case was severe depression by reading your story, and trying to show comparable evidence that he has the same symptoms, yet that hasn’t been proven and as far as I’m aware it is pure speculation, like I said there could be multiple reasons for his demise, and I say that not with any intention of belittling you or anyone else who has and is still suffering mental illness. But until we know the true facts we shouldn’t be speculating on the seriousness of any illness he may or may not. And what we can’t forget in all this is that we are football club that is paying a player a considerable amount of money for a service that we aren’t getting. And if he does have a mental health illness then I would assume but I don’t know for sure he would be better off taking himself away from the spotlight and doing we ever he needs to do to become the best he can be, and then if he chooses return to football and he may enjoy and feel the pleasure again. Again please don’t think what I’m saying is an attack on mental illness mate, I know to well that it exists in varying degrees, my adulation, respect, and love go with you Matt on your journey to fulfilment and happiness. 

I'm sure the club would've done mental screenings on him and all signings, just makes sense. Knowing our club, we will have known and, wanting to do the right thing, we will have seen it as an opportunity.

Just because its not announced formally doesn't mean its not true. I get you are not trying to undermine, but you'll have to trust me here when I say if you've experienced it, you can see it in people's eyes, in their demeanour. 

I know what you mean, so don't worry. It is very close to my heart so I do get prickly about it. But trying to apply logic doesn't work with depression. It just doesn't. 

[Shukes]

I get what Palfy is saying though. Some people are just bad eggs. And do we know if Dele has depression, or does he just like using drugs with the “ I don’t give a duck what anyone says “ attitude? 
 

I know a few people that I wouldn’t excuse being absolute twats for anything clinical. They were born twats, were twats when they were 8 and are still twats now they are nearly 50. 

Palfys point is he could be suffering badly and need help, or he could just be a twat. 
 

Personally I think he does need help.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Apparently he is going to be player of the year next year because he has died his hair blue ( or maybe he is just off to Coventry as part of the Gyokeres deal )

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/dele-alli-bold-hairstyle-everton-30285010

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

I get what Palfy is saying though. Some people are just bad eggs. And do we know if Dele has depression, or does he just like using drugs with the “ I don’t give a duck what anyone says “ attitude? 
 

I know a few people that I wouldn’t excuse being absolute twats for anything clinical. They were born twats, were twats when they were 8 and are still twats now they are nearly 50. 

Palfys point is he could be suffering badly and need help, or he could just be a twat. 
 

Personally I think he does need help.

I took time to read about his background, he’s from a broken family.   His mum is an addict, his dad lives in another country.  He lived with another family when at mk dons.

I’ve seen him in interviews with kids and he comes across as a nice lad. Quite quiet. 

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I took time to read about his background, he’s from a broken family.   His mum is an addict, his dad lives in another country.  He lived with another family when at mk dons.

I’ve seen him in interviews with kids and he comes across as a nice lad. Quite quiet. 

There are plenty of people in life that have non conventional up bringing’s and have gone on to have life’s not impacted by mental illness, as there are plenty of people who have had a very loving and stable upbringing yet have gone on to have horrendous mental issues. We need stop trying to make Ali fit into box that we recognise when we don’t have all the facts. I feel it’s getting too the stage where if he doesn’t have serious mental health issues, and a majority of people are using that as an excuse to why he is where he is today then all you are doing is in someways undermining the real issue of mental health. Just stop trying to make a case for something he may or may not have, because if we used mental health issues as the reason why everyone is having a bad time, then we run the risk of becoming immune and uncaring about it because it becomes an excuse for 90% of people to explain why they fucked up, which is not going to help the genuine sufferers of mental illness's. By all means discuss mental health issues it’s good to bring it out in to the open and share your thoughts and experiences, I could share the story of someone very close to me who had severe mental health problems, but I won’t because it’s not my story to tell, as Ali’s mental state is not for us to tell and most importantly not to try and diagnose. After all you are not Dr Haf a eminent psychologist and I’m not Dr Palfy you’re understudy. Let’s use the Ali thread to discuss his football merits, and if need be open another thread to share our thoughts, opinions, and experiences with mental health I’m sure it would be well attended and helpful for many. 

[Shukes]

Can I be Dr Shuker?

[Romey 1878]

15 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Can I be Dr Shuker?

I believe his name was Davor.

[Wiggytop]

I can see all parties side of this recent discussion, and I applaud those who are able to openly talk about their depression, personally I haven’t suffered with it, but my wife has, being totally debilitated by it on a number of occasions. She has removed herself from the key driver of it, work, and is in a good place once again.

With regards to Delle, I think we should stop speculating, it’s not getting us anywhere regarding his future, however talking about our mental health is a good thing imo.

[Hafnia]

On 21/06/2023 at 14:10, Palfy said:

There are plenty of people in life that have non conventional up bringing’s and have gone on to have life’s not impacted by mental illness, as there are plenty of people who have had a very loving and stable upbringing yet have gone on to have horrendous mental issues. We need stop trying to make Ali fit into box that we recognise when we don’t have all the facts. I feel it’s getting too the stage where if he doesn’t have serious mental health issues, and a majority of people are using that as an excuse to why he is where he is today then all you are doing is in someways undermining the real issue of mental health. Just stop trying to make a case for something he may or may not have, because if we used mental health issues as the reason why everyone is having a bad time, then we run the risk of becoming immune and uncaring about it because it becomes an excuse for 90% of people to explain why they fucked up, which is not going to help the genuine sufferers of mental illness's. By all means discuss mental health issues it’s good to bring it out in to the open and share your thoughts and experiences, I could share the story of someone very close to me who had severe mental health problems, but I won’t because it’s not my story to tell, as Ali’s mental state is not for us to tell and most importantly not to try and diagnose. After all you are not Dr Haf a eminent psychologist and I’m not Dr Palfy you’re understudy. Let’s use the Ali thread to discuss his football merits, and if need be open another thread to share our thoughts, opinions, and experiences with mental health I’m sure it would be well attended and helpful for many. 

My reply is to shukes post that says some people are bad eggs.   I’m putting context to the fact that he’s not a bad egg, I’ve not seen anything that suggests he’s anything other than a good lad.

I furthered this by saying that his life is more difficult than some people will know and judging a book by it’s cover is wrong. 
 

mental health doesn’t have to be inline with the severity of a situation, it’s how the person reacts. People can get PTSD from being punched in the face whereas you have ex soldiers who witnessed their mate being blown to bits who don’t get it. 
 

one way or another the lad isn’t in a good place

[Palfy]

37 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

one way or another the lad isn’t in a good place

But do you know why that is you’ve made the decision he’s got a mental illness, based on what. I haven’t read one article from him saying he is suffering any form of mental illness, I don’t believe I’ve read a credible article from the club or any other club saying he has a mental health problem, I’ve read articles from former managers saying he doesn’t put the effort in, Frank Lampard who brought him said the same thing until he shows me in training that he wants to play he won’t be playing, he criticised him in public, so that tells me that he wasn’t aware of any issues or he surely wouldn’t have criticised so publicly on his attitude knowing he was suffering from mental health issues. But unfortunately until that story comes out if that is the reason he is going to be judged on his football as he was at Spurs here and Turkey. And anything else is purely speculation until otherwise proven differently. And as Wiggy said we should stop speculating and everyone who has been involved in this bar you seem to agree that’s the most sensible thing to do, we shouldn’t be arguing about whether he is or isn’t we’ve never spoken to him and none of us are physicians in that field of medicine. 

[Bailey]

On 21/06/2023 at 08:13, Matt said:

I really didn't want to change, I wanted to be dead in separate 2 periods of my life. It took a seizure from a panic attack to put me in hospital and then I was watched like a hawk. Daily follow ups and sessions for months, then eventually it became "voluntary" because I'd upset my wife so much I forced myself out of guilt, not a desire to improve. It was a slog but I was forced through it (therapy). Insomnia, drink, stress, unreal expectations from work, friends and family... all the little things combine and before you know it there's pills like zolpidem and antidepressants that make things worse than ever to the point I started drinking with the sleeping pills in the hope I wouldn't wake up. 

It got easier when I stopped drinking 2.5 years ago, but there's still a daily fight in my head to not just keep walking into the sea. Sobriety makes it easier to resist but it's still there and my last attempt at therapy (CBT) was a waste of time. Its not a question of not listening, it's not getting the right feedback.

So apologies if I'm a bit defensive over depression, everyone. When I see people quoting "hes got the money, resource, etc", you show that you simply do not understand what depression does and actually means. You may think you do, but chances are you don't. Depression doesn't care about money or fame, it's not respectful of status or skin colour. If it gets its roots in you, it's as stubborn as a weed that keeps coming back despite you pulling it out from the stem. Depression is fucking ruthless and determined. 

Of course having the resources doesnt mean that you cant get depressed, but it does give you a head start over those that dont. Whilst I completely agree depression hits everyone the same, I disagree that having the resource (and therefore opportunity) to have better help doesnt give him more chance than the common man.

On 21/06/2023 at 08:31, Hafnia said:

The change that comes from within doesn’t exist in depression.  Depression sneaks its way in and becomes a part of you.   Part of depressions sneakiness is the ability to make the person who has it “get on with it and deny”.  By the time you notice it - it’s the stage where you feel desperate. 

I’m lucky that I talk about depression, I’ve been open with friends, received counselling, take a low dose of Sertraline to keep me at a level that doesn’t blunt me but takes the edge off. 
 

I couldn’t imagine being in the public eye at a stage in my life where all I wanted to do was stare at the wall next to my bed. 

 

I agree that it can sneak up on you but I disagree that change from within doesnt exist. If it didnt exist, noone would get better. No-one can ever force you to change when you are in that mindset, in my opinion at least. Similar to addiction in some ways. 

That doesnt mean that people dont realise it until its too late though as sadly that is all too common. 

I imagine thar the number of men (in particular) that suffer from symptoms of depression is probably scarily high. 

[Matt]

42 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Of course having the resources doesnt mean that you cant get depressed, but it does give you a head start over those that dont. Whilst I completely agree depression hits everyone the same, I disagree that having the resource (and therefore opportunity) to have better help doesnt give him more chance than the common man.

I agree that it can sneak up on you but I disagree that change from within doesnt exist. If it didnt exist, noone would get better. No-one can ever force you to change when you are in that mindset, in my opinion at least. Similar to addiction in some ways. 

That doesnt mean that people dont realise it until its too late though as sadly that is all too common. 

I imagine thar the number of men (in particular) that suffer from symptoms of depression is probably scarily high. 

Then you don't understand. Which I'm very grateful for. 

[Hafnia]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

Then you don't understand. Which I'm very grateful for. 

Brilliantly put.

in one of my most despairing moments I explained to my wife that the only way that I know she could understand how I was feeling was to feel it herself… and I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.  I didn’t miss one day of work, friends never knew I was struggling….  Had counselling and was told I was high on the depression scale and anxiety scale. My wife is a nurse and treats teenagers who struggle - yet she doesn’t profess to understand. She is well aware it’s indescribable. 

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

But do you know why that is you’ve made the decision he’s got a mental illness, based on what. I haven’t read one article from him saying he is suffering any form of mental illness, I don’t believe I’ve read a credible article from the club or any other club saying he has a mental health problem, I’ve read articles from former managers saying he doesn’t put the effort in, Frank Lampard who brought him said the same thing until he shows me in training that he wants to play he won’t be playing, he criticised him in public, so that tells me that he wasn’t aware of any issues or he surely wouldn’t have criticised so publicly on his attitude knowing he was suffering from mental health issues. But unfortunately until that story comes out if that is the reason he is going to be judged on his football as he was at Spurs here and Turkey. And anything else is purely speculation until otherwise proven differently. And as Wiggy said we should stop speculating and everyone who has been involved in this bar you seem to agree that’s the most sensible thing to do, we shouldn’t be arguing about whether he is or isn’t we’ve never spoken to him and none of us are physicians in that field of medicine. 

I said he wasn’t in a good place…. People are talking about his decline as a footballer.  Yet inhaling nitrous oxide, collapsing in a sun lounger, losing a partner due to being addicted to computer games and not sleeping is normal? 
 

im not a physician, but I’m also aware that people don’t behave like dele Alli when they are in a good place.   I’m not diagnosing him with anything - but I’m diagnosing others with a simple “you don’t know what he is or isn’t going through but he’s not been in a good place”

without being a hypocrite the same could apply to Gomes too. My throwaway comments about them earning shedloads,,,, means nothing if your head is wrecked. 

[Palfy]

31 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I said he wasn’t in a good place…. People are talking about his decline as a footballer.  Yet inhaling nitrous oxide, collapsing in a sun lounger, losing a partner due to being addicted to computer games and not sleeping is normal? 

I would say that is pretty much an average day for quite a lot of people, and definitely doesn’t point to depression, look at my posts I’m regularly on site posting at 2,3,4 in the morning, I suffer from insomnia millions do, millions of people play games and enjoy it that much there prepared to put it in front of other things in their lives that’s a choice thing, millions of marriages end for a multitude of reasons, inhaling laughing gas is a new craze that’s being indulged in by people his age recreationally for fun. Instead of trying to promote that these things prove he has mental health issues, have you ever considered that he may not care that much, because that was the general feed back from his last 4 managers, yet I’m not advocating that because I don’t know him well enough to make that judgement or any judgement about his state of mental health, and with the greatest respect Haf neither do. So let’s stop all speculating about his state of mind because we are all just blowing in the wind.  

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I would say that is pretty much an average day for quite a lot of people, and definitely doesn’t point to depression, look at my posts I’m regularly on site posting at 2,3,4 in the morning, I suffer from insomnia millions do, millions of people play games and enjoy it that much there prepared to put it in front of other things in their lives that’s a choice thing, millions of marriages end for a multitude of reasons, inhaling laughing gas is a new craze that’s being indulged in by people his age recreationally for fun. Instead of trying to promote that these things prove he has mental health issues, have you ever considered that he may not care that much, because that was the general feed back from his last 4 managers, yet I’m not advocating that because I don’t know him well enough to make that judgement or any judgement about his state of mental health, and with the greatest respect Haf neither do. So let’s stop all speculating about his state of mind because we are all just blowing in the wind.  

Again….. I haven’t said he’s got depression…. I’ve said he’s not in a good place.   
 

id say the press running negative shit about him and friends selling pictures of him isn’t a good place?

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Again….. I haven’t said he’s got depression…. I’ve said he’s not in a good place.   
 

id say the press running negative shit about him and friends selling pictures of him isn’t a good place?

Okay fair point you haven’t said he was suffering from depression, I’ve read your comments on depression and made the wrong assumption that you were discussing him as having depression, and I’m very accepting that he may have it, yet equally accepting that he may not have it. And I do agree you wouldn’t be happy with friends selling pictures from private parties, for him definitely bad timing when his ability of a footballer is being questioned he could do without that type of shit. As Dyche said I can get him fit the rest is down to him to change, which I assumed was the company he keeps inhaling and any other distractions outside of football that maybe a negative to his overall performance, I think Dyche will give him the opportunity to prove himself but he won’t accept less than 100% commitment I’m sure.