Rafael Benitez

[StevO]

31 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Have you watched Norwich and Newcastle this year? We're poor right now, very poor, but to say we "comfortably play the worst football in the league" is beyond hyperbole

Didn’t we score one goal in November? On like 1st November? And average something like 30% possession? I know stats don’t prove everything, but it’s hard to play nice football without the ball and without goals. 
 

Norwich have been alright under Smith and Newcastle have scored a few even though they are shite too. 

[StevO]

This hyperbole pronunciation discussion has got me wanting to understand it more. So Americans say it weird? I guess in all the times I’ve been over there that word has never come up. I need to research

Actually, I just need to sleep. 

[Romey 1878]

6 minutes ago, StevO said:

Actually, I just need to sleep. 

Me too, but it's almost 2:30am and I'm wide awake.

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Oh god, you do pronounce it in that fucked up way. My head is going to fall off if I have any more painful experiences in a 24 hour period .

It's hyper-bowl.

That's what two American college football teams play in each December.

I'm from Britain, and I've always pronounced it 'hi-per-bull-ee'. (Rhymes with ass-imp-toe-tee.)

[dunlopp9987]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Oh god, you do pronounce it in that fucked up way. My head is going to fall off if I have any more painful experiences in a 24 hour period .

It's hyper-bowl.

From Merriam Webster:

And then there's that bole. It should sound just like the word bowl, right? Nope. Instead it's two syllables: \buh-lee\ .

The word comes to English directly from Latin, but the Latin word is from a Greek word that has one crucial visual difference. It has a line, called a macron, over the final e: hyperbolē. The macron tells us that the vowel is pronounced like \ee\ .

[Romey 1878]

4 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

From Merriam Webster:

And then there's that bole. It should sound just like the word bowl, right? Nope. Instead it's two syllables: \buh-lee\ .

The word comes to English directly from Latin, but the Latin word is from a Greek word that has one crucial visual difference. It has a line, called a macron, over the final e: hyperbolē. The macron tells us that the vowel is pronounced like \ee\ .

I got a bit of sleep to lessen my bad mood and I wake up to this... I hate you .

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I really don't know how you can be so confident in that statement. We comfortably play the worst football in the league, which makes it hard for an already split fanbase to get behind the team during a game. 

This is only going to go one way with this manager, LB. He's not going to be here long-term, whether he relegates us not (I hope not because if we go down we won't come back any time soon). He was never the right man for the job, and he never will be. 

Same here , just take a look at the form table, of the players out injured there is only DCL and Mina who I think would be considered starter so last night was near enough our strongest side

We are in a mess, confidence is rock bottom and the fan base is split over the manager and it’s getting very toxic. The squad is threadbare and has gaping holes in it and I can’t see much changing on that front in January unless we sell one of Richarlison, DCL or Pickford

Looking at the fixture list I think things will only get worse between now and Xmas

Far far better teams than us have gone down so for the life of me I don’t see how anyone can be so dismissive of the possibility of us going down 

[London Blue]

15 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Same here , just take a look at the form table, of the players out injured there is only DCL and Mina who I think would be considered starter so last night was near enough our strongest side

We are in a mess, confidence is rock bottom and the fan base is split over the manager and it’s getting very toxic. The squad is threadbare and has gaping holes in it and I can’t see much changing on that front in January unless we sell one of Richarlison, DCL or Pickford

Looking at the fixture list I think things will only get worse between now and Xmas

Far far better teams than us have gone down so for the life of me I don’t see how anyone can be so dismissive of the possibility of us going down 

Burnly, Newcastle, Norwich, are all much worse than us. We showed at the beginning of the season that we can play winning football.

At the start of the season with a full squad we were playing well, our biggest problems are we lack a goal threat because DCL is injured and Rondon is shit. Coleman has fallen off a cliff, Godfrey is only now getting back ro fitness and have not been able to play Alan and Doucoure together in midfield enough.

Benitez did not get Carlo to leave, nor did he get us the squad we have at the moment. Most of the  faults lie with the board, and Brands. Yes his appoinment was decisive and I wanted Potter, but sacking him now will not solve the underlying problems we have. If we sack Benitez who will we get to replace him, and what does his sacking say about us as a club? To me it says that we give managers no time, that we lutch from crisis to crisis with no stability.

Benitez is a very good coach, but he can only do so much when missing key parts of the squad. Fans are now asking how we can spend 500 million pounds and end up with Rondon up front, and that is rightly making us very angry. Although I like alot of what Brands has done failing to have a cover right back, striker and central midfielder is not forgivable and he must go.

We have to sort this mess out, the board must be decisive, show strength, and unity. 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

11 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Burnly, Newcastle, Norwich, are all much worse than us. We showed at the beginning of the season that we can play winning football.

At the start of the season with a full squad we were playing well, our biggest problems are we lack a goal threat because DCL is injured and Rondon is shit. Coleman has fallen off a cliff, Godfrey is only now getting back ro fitness and have not been able to play Alan and Doucoure together in midfield enough.

Benitez did not get Carlo to leave, nor did he get us the squad we have at the moment. Most of the  faults lie with the board, and Brands. Yes his appoinment was decisive and I wanted Potter, but sacking him now will not solve the underlying problems we have. If we sack Benitez who will we get to replace him, and what does his sacking say about us as a club? To me it says that we give managers no time, that we lutch from crisis to crisis with no stability.

Benitez is a very good coach, but he can only do so much when missing key parts of the squad. Fans are now asking how we can spend 500 million pounds and end up with Rondon up front, and that is rightly making us very angry. Although I like alot of what Brands has done failing to have a cover right back, striker and central midfielder is not forgivable and he must go.

We have to sort this mess out, the board must be decisive, show strength, and unity. 

 

But are they, the form table would tend to suggest otherwise

At the start of the season we had a good run of fixtures against sides we should be beating got some decent results and grew in confidence 

Now the opposite has happened

At the start of the season Allan looked like a beast and was bossing the midfield now he looks more like Tom Davies than Tom Davies. Godfrey still looks like a shadow of the player we saw last season, it was his mistake for the second goal last night

I’m not blaming Benitez and don’t want him sacked, although he has to shoulder some of the blame for the listless performances

This mess has been years in the making but still doesn’t take away from my point that the possibility of relegation shouldn’t be dismissed

 

[Sibdane]

6 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

From Merriam Webster:

And then there's that bole. It should sound just like the word bowl, right? Nope. Instead it's two syllables: \buh-lee\ .

The word comes to English directly from Latin, but the Latin word is from a Greek word that has one crucial visual difference. It has a line, called a macron, over the final e: hyperbolē. The macron tells us that the vowel is pronounced like \ee\ .

USA! USA! USA!  

[Zoo 2.0]

 

[MikeO]

11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Oh god, you do pronounce it in that fucked up way. My head is going to fall off if I have any more painful experiences in a 24 hour period .

It's hyper-bowl.

 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

 

Lose the next three or four games and see if he feels the same. 

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, London Blue said:

Burnly, Newcastle, Norwich, are all much worse than us. We showed at the beginning of the season that we can play winning football.

At the start of the season with a full squad we were playing well, our biggest problems are we lack a goal threat because DCL is injured and Rondon is shit. Coleman has fallen off a cliff, Godfrey is only now getting back ro fitness and have not been able to play Alan and Doucoure together in midfield enough.

Benitez did not get Carlo to leave, nor did he get us the squad we have at the moment. Most of the  faults lie with the board, and Brands. Yes his appoinment was decisive and I wanted Potter, but sacking him now will not solve the underlying problems we have. If we sack Benitez who will we get to replace him, and what does his sacking say about us as a club? To me it says that we give managers no time, that we lutch from crisis to crisis with no stability.

Benitez is a very good coach, but he can only do so much when missing key parts of the squad. Fans are now asking how we can spend 500 million pounds and end up with Rondon up front, and that is rightly making us very angry. Although I like alot of what Brands has done failing to have a cover right back, striker and central midfielder is not forgivable and he must go.

We have to sort this mess out, the board must be decisive, show strength, and unity. 

 

We were deceived by the early results - all against teams we should expect to beat. Even then, we played poorly in the first half and came from behind to win in the second. There's not one game this season in which I'd say we truly played well. Compare that with our opening game against Spurs last season when we were dominant throughout.

[Cornish Steve]

51 minutes ago, MikeO said:

 

So how do you pronounce 'chimney'? Of course, it's 'chim-lee' (note: my better half is wrong on this point).

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

 

They can fuck off. 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

 

God forbid he actually speak directly to the fans instead of hiding behind that snake. 

[Gwlad]

DCL, Mina, Gomez, Davies - injured

Holgate- suspended

Sigurdsson - unavailable

If Rafa had had these options in the squad the past couple of months things would have been different. I don't want us scraping around now for another manager from a very limited pool, we are a joke already with our revolving door. Let's see what we can do in January and when the others are fit.

[Romey 1878]

I think a good barometer of whether relegation is something that should be spoken about is if Mike or Matt basically tell those suggesting it they're cockwombles.

They haven't so now I'm really worried .

[dunlopp9987]

1 hour ago, Gwlad all over said:

DCL, Mina, Gomez, Davies - injured

Holgate- suspended

Sigurdsson - unavailable

If Rafa had had these options in the squad the past couple of months things would have been different. I don't want us scraping around now for another manager from a very limited pool, we are a joke already with our revolving door. Let's see what we can do in January and when the others are fit.

See but the problem with the players you listed there is that really, only DCL and occasionally Mina are strong contributors for us. The rest are mediocre players, which is why we've gotten to the point we're at.

No new manager is going to be able to do much more than Rafa has with the piss poor squad we have.

[Gwlad]

Point taken but they might offer a few options for a change of shape or tactics. Like others I would like to see youngsters given a decent chance. Maybe against Arsenal.........?

[Sibdane]

50 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I think a good barometer of whether relegation is something that should be spoken about is if Mike or Matt basically tell those suggesting it they're cockwombles.

They haven't so now I'm really worried .

I wasn't this worried before we hired Fat Sam. I think relegation is a very real possibility with this squad. Like others have said, It will be more of other teams around us being worse than us being good enough to stay up. 

[MikeO]

36 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

I wasn't this worried before we hired Fat Sam. I think relegation is a very real possibility with this squad. Like others have said, It will be more of other teams around us being worse than us being good enough to stay up. 

You can still get 9/1 on us being relegated, if I was a betting man I'd be all over that.

[RuffRob]

A perfect storm has now brewed for us - we have had a really shit run of game results wise massively influenced by injuries and as players are starting to come back from the Man City game onward we pretty much come in to a run of very tough games that we would 'struggle' in even with a full squad.  The run of shit results is going to continue up until Xmas, the fact is we are mainly going to be playing better teams in Arsenal and Chelsea. 

I have been saying for months we need to right off this season right up until Xmas.

Rafa is always destine to get a less than fair crack at the whip than probably any other manager. We all know a bad run would turn the atmosphere toxic.

Changing the manager before Xmas is not going to change a thing at this club - Anybody who thinks giving Benitez the boot is going to make everything OK is deluded. In the current status quo - a new manager now is just another lamb to the slaughter.  

In April/May last year you could tell Ancelotti just didn't have a clue how he was going to get much of tune of this team. Benitez is essentially stuck with the same players, except they are 8momths older !.

The quality of the vast majority of our squad is the heart of problem. Benitez is the one person in key position at the club who shoulders no blame for this. 

'Benitez out' is a total red herring and I would be even more ashamed of those at the top of this club if they gave him the boot for the current state of affairs at this club. 

 

 

[dunlopp9987]

Not saying these two situations are exactly similar, but look at what's happening at Arsenal. Arteta has underwhelmed for the majority of his time in charge, and the beginning of this season was absolutely dreadful. They were looking like relegation candidates. 

The board and upper management didn't panic, believed in the manager and that it would be a long-term project, and now they're leading at Old Trafford and in 4th.

Again, I realize the situations are different, but it goes to show what can happen when you resist the kneejerk reaction of "we're in piss poor form and nobody looks bothered." Arsenal for those first few games looked like we do now.

[Bailey]

21 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Stop it, stop giving him an out. He got the job because he made people believe that he could do something with this lot - that is the entire reason he's in the job!

Apparently, he was the man to get us looking at least organised, even if we'd be boring as shit to watch. Nope. Defensively we're all over the fucking place and look like conceding from every attack and every corner. We don't look organised in attack either - every time we go forward in our haphazard way we look like we'll concede then as well because everyone is all over the fucking place.

I'm angry as fuck at him, the players, the fucking board. There's nothing good about this club, it's rotten to the core.

My biggest cocern is that we are so bad defensively, despite playing defensively. Its one thing attacking and letting the back door open but we are so terrible going forward.

20 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Have you watched Norwich and Newcastle this year? We're poor right now, very poor, but to say we "comfortably play the worst football in the league" is beyond hyperbole

I would say we are amongst the worst teams in the league. There are a few shit teams this season and we are most definitely one of them.

11 hours ago, London Blue said:

Burnly, Newcastle, Norwich, are all much worse than us. We showed at the beginning of the season that we can play winning football.

At the start of the season with a full squad we were playing well, our biggest problems are we lack a goal threat because DCL is injured and Rondon is shit. Coleman has fallen off a cliff, Godfrey is only now getting back ro fitness and have not been able to play Alan and Doucoure together in midfield enough.

Benitez did not get Carlo to leave, nor did he get us the squad we have at the moment. Most of the  faults lie with the board, and Brands. Yes his appoinment was decisive and I wanted Potter, but sacking him now will not solve the underlying problems we have. If we sack Benitez who will we get to replace him, and what does his sacking say about us as a club? To me it says that we give managers no time, that we lutch from crisis to crisis with no stability.

Benitez is a very good coach, but he can only do so much when missing key parts of the squad. Fans are now asking how we can spend 500 million pounds and end up with Rondon up front, and that is rightly making us very angry. Although I like alot of what Brands has done failing to have a cover right back, striker and central midfielder is not forgivable and he must go.

We have to sort this mess out, the board must be decisive, show strength, and unity. 

 

They are not much worse than us at all. We were just as shite as Norwich and Burnley when we played them but we got the result. Brentford were terrible last week and we lost to them. I am not confident we will beat anyone, I think those games are always in the balance. 

We played well last season and look how it went. We certainly played some good football at times but we werent playing 90 minutes of good football. As an example using the Burnley game we played well for 20ish minutes. 

My view is that Benitez will not get us relegated and we will improve but I think he will need a strong January window, to bring in more players that suit his style of play. I thought we would be a lot more stable under him but that looks misguided at the moment.

Lots of questions do also need to be asked of those above. If the article on Brands is to be believed the transfer strategy is a massive problem and it sounds like we have too many voices and it shows. 

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Not saying these two situations are exactly similar, but look at what's happening at Arsenal. Arteta has underwhelmed for the majority of his time in charge, and the beginning of this season was absolutely dreadful. They were looking like relegation candidates. 

The board and upper management didn't panic, believed in the manager and that it would be a long-term project, and now they're leading at Old Trafford and in 4th.

Again, I realize the situations are different, but it goes to show what can happen when you resist the kneejerk reaction of "we're in piss poor form and nobody looks bothered." Arsenal for those first few games looked like we do now.

The difference with Arsenal is that you could see the coaching on the field. It wasn't always working out but you could see what he was trying to do with the teams shape and how they were trying to defend / score. 

I do think you can see how we are trying to counter attack, we definitely get numbers forward when we can. The big problem is how we are a complete mess at the back and in midfield. I also dont see how we are trying to break teams down when they defend deep against us. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Rafa is always destine to get a less than fair crack at the whip than probably any other manager. We all know a bad run would turn the atmosphere toxic.

I agree with what you said apart from this. I think Rafa gets more time than anyone as Moshiri won’t want to admit to making the wrong hire. I don’t see any other manager surviving these last ten or so results, and throw in three more loses in the next game, no one else survives that. 

[Gwlad]

4 hours ago, MikeO said:

You can still get 9/1 on us being relegated, if I was a betting man I'd be all over that.

Naughty boy, slap wrist.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Not saying these two situations are exactly similar, but look at what's happening at Arsenal. Arteta has underwhelmed for the majority of his time in charge, and the beginning of this season was absolutely dreadful. They were looking like relegation candidates. 

The board and upper management didn't panic, believed in the manager and that it would be a long-term project, and now they're leading at Old Trafford and in 4th.

Again, I realize the situations are different, but it goes to show what can happen when you resist the kneejerk reaction of "we're in piss poor form and nobody looks bothered." Arsenal for those first few games looked like we do now.

Arsenal we’re only shit for three or four games weren’t they? Arteta also has an FA cup to show for his time there. I still think he’s done a terrible job though. 

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

A perfect storm has now brewed for us - we have had a really shit run of game results wise massively influenced by injuries and as players are starting to come back from the Man City game onward we pretty much come in to a run of very tough games that we would 'struggle' in even with a full squad.  The run of shit results is going to continue up until Xmas, the fact is we are mainly going to be playing better teams in Arsenal and Chelsea. 

I have been saying for months we need to right off this season right up until Xmas.

Rafa is always destine to get a less than fair crack at the whip than probably any other manager. We all know a bad run would turn the atmosphere toxic.

Changing the manager before Xmas is not going to change a thing at this club - Anybody who thinks giving Benitez the boot is going to make everything OK is deluded. In the current status quo - a new manager now is just another lamb to the slaughter.  

In April/May last year you could tell Ancelotti just didn't have a clue how he was going to get much of tune of this team. Benitez is essentially stuck with the same players, except they are 8momths older !.

The quality of the vast majority of our squad is the heart of problem. Benitez is the one person in key position at the club who shoulders no blame for this. 

'Benitez out' is a total red herring and I would be even more ashamed of those at the top of this club if they gave him the boot for the current state of affairs at this club. 

 

 

This is not true. We brought in Gray and Townsend, and you could argue they've been two of our strongest players. They certainly play every game. This is a bright spot for the season, finding two players at a bargain-basement price. My problem is that the other players on the team are not shining, and we see more a bunch of individuals than a well-oiled team. This is on the manager.

I don't believe we should remove Benitez until we have a solid replacement lined up. There's no need to panic, but it is the time to start the search behind the scenes.