Rafael Benitez

[chicagoblue]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

For those defending the manager, putting all else aside, I have just one question: Can you please explain to me the manager's strategy for winning games? As we play each game, I personally have no clue what the team is doing. Even in the win against Arsenal, that was won by individual creativity and pure desire to give the fans something to cheer, and I could ascertain no obvious game plan.

The plan is wait for DCL to get back then hit in loads of crosses.  That's it. 

[c1982]

So true…

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

You are very quick to highlight Digne but what about all the other players serving up shite week in week out that still play or form part of the bench. There is no doubt in my mind that Digne would be starting if there hadnt been a spat.

Managers can legislate for fuck ups. Not in those individual moments but the thing we learned from Martinez is that poorly managed teams lead to players making mistakes. Players that are confident and have trust in what they are being asked to do make less mistakes. Consistent errors from a variety of players, reflect upon the manager.

As for Richarlison, he was just completely isolated. We had little of the ball and the ball we did play up to him was shite. I get bringing Rondon on, but Gordon hasnt proven to be a goal threat and yet a player that scored 3 goals the week before gets hooked. I know who I would rather have on the pitch. 

I think this bunch of players are better than relegation form. There are some really poor squads in the league and ours is better than that. Palace certainly arent 3-1 better than us for example!

I mentioned Digne and Richarlison because I was responding to a post talking about Digne and Richarlison, so you are right about one thing I was very quick to highlight Digne in my discussion about Digne. Fuck sake Bailey wake up mate. 

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

 

I think this bunch of players are better than relegation form. There are some really poor squads in the league and ours is better than that. Palace certainly arent 3-1 better than us for example!

Our squad is mid table, no matter who the manager is. Over a season not relegation fodder and not european qualifying squad - simply bang average.

The difference between us and Palace yesterday was simply Conor Gallagher. How sicking he is a just another on the Chelsea production line, along with Billy Gilmor. But thats a topic in itself. 

[StevO]

20 hours ago, Palfy said:

Haven’t we already had a couple of experienced DoF in the last 6 years, one who spent 200 million in 2.5 years and another who spent 300 million in 3.5 years. Not even Moshiri would be foolish enough to go back down that route, anyway even with his money he couldn’t take the chance and sustain those types of losses again he has to find a different way forward, that’s why he’s going with the manager in control of all team matters, which personally I prefer is Benitez the right man who knows at this stage, but one things for sure we couldn’t carry on the way we were. 

Well it seems he had an experienced director of football, but hasn’t let him do the job. Enough has been reported saying as much within the first few days of him leaving. He needs people to run the football club for him as he doesn’t know how to do it himself. He doesn’t get involved in building telephone masts, coding for emails, building gas lines, running a foundry, he’s not an expert in these industries he’s involved in, he’s an investor with experts running the companies. For some reason he thinks he can run this company better than the experts. 

[Btay]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

Our squad is mid table, no matter who the manager is. Over a season not relegation fodder and not european qualifying squad - simply bang average.

The difference between us and Palace yesterday was simply Conor Gallagher. How sicking he is a just another on the Chelsea production line, along with Billy Gilmor. But thats a topic in itself. 

We should go all out for him, quality little player who works his ass off every game. 

[Wiggytop]

9 hours ago, Btay said:

We should go all out for him, quality little player who works his ass off every game. 

We should, but we’ve missed the boat, he will go to a better club than we are atm, we should have got him in the summer, he won’t want to come here while we’re in this mess.

[RuffRob]

Chelsea obviously think to much of him to let him go, signed a 5 year deal last summer. It also maybe highlights how big the gap is between the top clubs and ourselves. Chelsea can simply farm out massive talent like this who are get massive Premier league experience and growing as players. We have a long long way to go. Its only in modern history that Chelsea are such a big club, showing my age but in my head I still think of Everton as a bigger club than Chelsea. How deluded am I!!

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Chelsea obviously think to much of him to let him go, signed a 5 year deal last summer. 

Not necessarily. That's as much to allow them to get a big fee for him if they don't see him displacing any of their current midfield for the foreseeable future.

Edit - I'm not saying we've got a chance of getting him though, that's just not happening .

[Gwlad]

21 hours ago, Btay said:

We should go all out for him, quality little player who works his ass off every game. 

We couldn't get Zouma back from the Chelse, fat chance of Gallagher.

[Gwlad]

On 13/12/2021 at 08:08, Palfy said:

Digne deserves the fact that he’s not playing, not because he had words with Rafa but because he’d gone to rat’s shit for so long and was getting away with it, his outspokenness meant Rafa had to find a different way and he has Godfrey who is starting to look far better than Digne. 
He reportedly said he took Richarlison off because he had sustained In injury, whether this is true or not I’m sure will be made clear in the next day or so, but besides that Richarlison was pretty much non productive he was clearly not himself, and the manager has made a decision to change it because it wasn’t working and to be honest I think it had the desired effect with the 2 subs coming on. But I’m sorry no manager can legislate for the 2 big fuck up’s from Gray and Coleman, but they seem to be very quickly forgotten and all the blame for years of shit have been shoved all in the direction of one man, who’s not had a proper opportunity to change it, I know emotions are high and rage is blind, but sacking Benitez now would be very foolish, nobody would do much better but plenty would do a lot worse.

 I wonder how many would admit to wishing they had taken the opportunity to get up and walk out for 5 minutes now, if we don’t get a decent budget for new players in January window your all be getting another opportunity very soon. 

Not defending the manager but once these prima donnas scent blood when the gaffer doesn't pick them/subs them, they will go for it as they know he wasn't a popular appointment thus upsetting the dressing room and further alienating the fans.

[Bailey]

On 13/12/2021 at 19:56, Palfy said:

I mentioned Digne and Richarlison because I was responding to a post talking about Digne and Richarlison, so you are right about one thing I was very quick to highlight Digne in my discussion about Digne. Fuck sake Bailey wake up mate. 

You have had a pop at Digne a few times, not just necessarily on just on this thread.

23 hours ago, RuffRob said:

Our squad is mid table, no matter who the manager is. Over a season not relegation fodder and not european qualifying squad - simply bang average.

The difference between us and Palace yesterday was simply Conor Gallagher. How sicking he is a just another on the Chelsea production line, along with Billy Gilmor. But thats a topic in itself. 

I disagree. They were tactically superior to us IMO. They played football and could actually press as a unit. 

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You have had a pop at Digne a few times, not just necessarily on just on this thread.

I disagree. They were tactically superior to us IMO. They played football and could actually press as a unit. 

I have mate mainly in the Digne thread under 3 managers as well that’s how long I’ve felt he hasn’t been anywhere near his best, his first season was world class and every season after for some reason he has steadily got worse until we find ourselves where we are now. But it isn’t just him who I have been critical of, I have also said Coleman, Delph and Iwobi shouldn’t make the team. Also I’ve said many times that Mina Gomes and Gbamin should be moved on because we get no continuity as team with players who are injured more than they are fit no matter how good they play on the odd games. 

[RuffRob]

38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You have had a pop at Digne a few times, not just necessarily on just on this thread.

I disagree. They were tactically superior to us IMO. They played football and could actually press as a unit. 

If we have had the industry and touch of class of Conor Gallaghar instead of them, it would have been a different team out there. Palace are not that good, he was the ultimate difference at the end of the day. 

[Btay]

12 hours ago, Gwlad all over said:

We couldn't get Zouma back from the Chelse, fat chance of Gallagher.

That midfield is going to be pretty hard to crack in to. It’s just a real shame because I really wish we could we’re going after that profile of player. He would be a real fan favourite here with how hard he works.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rafa-benitez-farhad-moshiri-everton-22468348

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rafa-benitez-farhad-moshiri-everton-22468348

"they [Everton fans] know you need time and they know we are going in the right direction."

Er...no.

[dunlopp9987]

57 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

"they [Everton fans] know you need time and they know we are going in the right direction."

Er...no.

I see two sides of this. One: he doesn't need to say this.

The other: what else is he gonna say? "This is going to be a long process of rebuilding this team, and I am unequivocally not the right man for the job and it's currently a dumpster fire at the club"?

And before you say it, no, that isn't what he should say.

[Romey 1878]

Weird that he thinks the job is harder than he thought it would be when he apparently conducted a full review of all the players and the club and this attention to detail is part of the reason he got the job in the first place.

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I see two sides of this. One: he doesn't need to say this.

The other: what else is he gonna say? "This is going to be a long process of rebuilding this team, and I am unequivocally not the right man for the job and it's currently a dumpster fire at the club"?

And before you say it, no, that isn't what he should say.

I would have sympathy with the manager IF I truly believed we're going in the right direction - but I don't see a scrap of evidence to support that claim. What exactly is the plan, the strategy, the direction? As they say in business, hope is not a strategy.

[Tonsta]

If you bang your head on a wall you will get a headache, do it again the next day, same result.

We have been doing this for 10 years, and low and behold same results.

I for one want to break that mould, we have an experienced boss, not my first choice, but he knows what Hes doing.

Give him a couple of years, let him get his squad together, then judge him, stop the same old same old.

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Tonsta said:

If you bang your head on a wall you will get a headache, do it again the next day, same result.

We have been doing this for 10 years, and low and behold same results.

I for one want to break that mould, we have an experienced boss, not my first choice, but he knows what Hes doing.

Give him a couple of years, let him get his squad together, then judge him, stop the same old same old.

Spot on - I think he needs at least 18months and a couple of transfer windows and a proper crack at the job without a massive injury crisis. Whether fan will allow this is another thing. There is just no patience from many and this is what is desperately needed - with whoever is in charge.

people seem to be forgetting even when most players where fit, we where atrocious last season and the season before that. Not sure how anybody is supposed to make them a nice to watch and winning team in a few months and half them missing. We will be continually sacking managers every 6months at this rate.

Oh yeah, we have kind of tried that approach already. 

Do people really want to see Rooney taking the helm in January? and then maybe somebody else in the summer trying to get the tune out of the very same squad - possibly sprinkled with one or two Benitez additions and possibly a Rooney one as well.

 

 

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

Spot on - I think he needs at least 18months and a couple of transfer windows and a proper crack at the job without a massive injury crisis. Whether fan will allow this is another thing. There is just no patience from many and this is what is desperately needed - with whoever is in charge.

people seem to be forgetting even when most players where fit, we where atrocious last season and the season before that. Not sure how anybody is supposed to make them a nice to watch and winning team in a few months and half them missing. We will be continually sacking managers every 6months at this rate.

Oh yeah, we have kind of tried that approach already. 

Do people really want to see Rooney taking the helm in January? and then maybe somebody else in the summer trying to get the tune out of the very same squad - possibly sprinkled with one or two Benitez additions and possibly a Rooney one as well.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Tonsta said:

If you bang your head on a wall you will get a headache, do it again the next day, same result.

We have been doing this for 10 years, and low and behold same results.

I for one want to break that mould, we have an experienced boss, not my first choice, but he knows what Hes doing.

Give him a couple of years, let him get his squad together, then judge him, stop the same old same old.

I realize that it's easy to be critical. Yes, injuries have been particularly bad this season. Yes, it does take time to turn around a bad situation. But, as I wrote above, where is the evidence of a plan, a strategy, a direction? There is none. Watching the players, do you have any sense of belief, of confidence, of understanding of the manager's tactics? Is everyone pulling in the same direction? What's the manager's vision of the future?

I have no confidence that we can beat any team in the league right now. Do you? It's all very well to be patient - and we've been through this before - but there must be evidence of progress. We're almost halfway through the season, for crying out loud, and does anyone believe we're improving? There comes a time when you have to accept that you've made a mistake, and the sooner you act the better.

You say that we were atrocious last season, but... we won away at Liverpool, Leicester, and Palace. We beat Chelsea at home and did the double over Spurs, West Ham, Arsenal, and Wolves. Does anyone seriously believe we'll do any one of these things this season? We finished the season with a goal difference of -1; right now, with strong teams yet to play, we're at -8. We let in five at home against Watford and just let in three against a team that can't even win today against So'ton. I don't understand why you believe this season is an improvement over last season. Can you explain?

[London Blue]

I was ok with the Benetiz signing, yes it was contentious, but he loves the city, knows how to manage, and will get the players into shape. I did want Potter, but I was ok with Benitez and I wanted him to have time to sort the squad out and impose his way of playing. I was expecting some disruption, especially with injuries and some players not fitting his style.

But now, I'm not so sure, its not just the aweful run we are on, it's how we played, we have no style no "Everton" or Benetiz style to identify with. We just seem to have no game plan, how can the players we have not keep posession, or work the ball? The man has managed great teams, all sorts of players, how can he not get a system and place in with the players we have.

I mean granted we are not Madrid, or Chelsea in terms of player quality but we have good players. I mean fuck if Potter can get Brighton playing really attrac tive possession football with their players why can Benitez do that with us.

It does not have to be possession football, but get a grip man, have a plan, a shape a style and impose it. He has  had 16 games plus a pre season so why are we so weak?

I dont know either we see out this storm and give Benitez a chance to impose himself and get his players in or we start the merry-go-round again.

I am just about in the keep benitez and give him a chance camp, but there has to be improvement, soon.

 

[Cornish Steve]

2 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I was ok with the Benetiz signing, yes it was contentious, but he loves the city, knows how to manage, and will get the players into shape. I did want Potter, but I was ok with Benitez and I wanted him to have time to sort the squad out and impose his way of playing. I was expecting some disruption, especially with injuries and some players not fitting his style.

Forgive my sarcasm, but has this been a principal criterion of any serious club when hiring a new manager? "I know - let's bring a has-been manager from China because he loves the city! In fact, it gets even better: He owns a home here!"

[Romey 1878]

21 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Forgive my sarcasm, but has this been a principal criterion of any serious club when hiring a new manager? "I know - let's bring a has-been manager from China because he loves the city! In fact, it gets even better: He owns a home here!"

His home is the other side of the water, Caldy.

[RuffRob]

42 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

 

I realize that it's easy to be critical. Yes, injuries have been particularly bad this season. Yes, it does take time to turn around a bad situation. But, as I wrote above, where is the evidence of a plan, a strategy, a direction? There is none. Watching the players, do you have any sense of belief, of confidence, of understanding of the manager's tactics? Is everyone pulling in the same direction? What's the manager's vision of the future?

I have no confidence that we can beat any team in the league right now. Do you? It's all very well to be patient - and we've been through this before - but there must be evidence of progress. We're almost halfway through the season, for crying out loud, and does anyone believe we're improving? There comes a time when you have to accept that you've made a mistake, and the sooner you act the better.

You say that we were atrocious last season, but... we won away at Liverpool, Leicester, and Palace. We beat Chelsea at home and did the double over Spurs, West Ham, Arsenal, and Wolves. Does anyone seriously believe we'll do any one of these things this season? We finished the season with a goal difference of -1; right now, with strong teams yet to play, we're at -8. We let in five at home against Watford and just let in three against a team that can't even win today against So'ton. I don't understand why you believe this season is an improvement over last season. Can you explain?

Before you blow a gasket, nobody is saying we are improving yet. All a lot of people want to see is the current manager (benitez or not) give a fair period of time. 

What is a fair period of time for a any manager to turn a club around? Do you think we should be changing managers every 4 month then? After an initial honeymoon period, plenty of teams go backwards when a new regime comes in before they stabilise and bring in their own players etc and begin to build. We are still in a decembling phase on a good part of this squad, never mind building. 

So a simple question - personal biases aside - how long should any new manager be given? 

 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Forgive my sarcasm, but has this been a principal criterion of any serious club when hiring a new manager? "I know - let's bring a has-been manager from China because he loves the city! In fact, it gets even better: He owns a home here!"

Maybe he should have ran for Mayor instead. Sounds like he is every fucking time he says it. 
I know how to find Penny Lane, I can get to Goodison or Anfield with my eyes closed, I know what’s good at the Lobster Pot at 2am, I can even get round the mess of a one way system they just spent millions on, make me the manager. 

[StevO]

For the lads who say Rafa needs time, a few seasons to get it right or whatever, at what point does this run of terrible form become the time he’s out? I understand he’s inherited shit, but do we go down because it’s not Rafa’s fault?

Ive not been in the camp of sack him or not, rather he just wasn’t here in the first place, but this run of form is just awful. For me he gets Chelsea as a free pass, as long as it’s not embarrassing, but Leicester, Burnley, Newcastle and Brighton are critical. I think Burnley and Newcastle are both must win games. If we lose to Leicester and then Burnley I’d rather him be gone before the Newcastle game. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

So a simple question - personal biases aside - how long should any new manager be given? 

It has to be subjective, the circumstances must dictate the answer. If we had more money to spend last summer then this run of form would have got any manager sacked. But difficult circumstances, and probably a bit of stubbornness from Moshiri for hiring him under a cloud of doubt, have bought him plenty of time. You should also take into account the ambition of the club. Example being United sacking Moyes as soon as they couldn’t qualify for the champions league.  So how far is acceptable for a club to decline under a manager before time is up. 
 

Direct answer to the question how long should any new manager be given? For us right now, when it looks like the manager might get us relegated.