Rafael Benitez

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

I’m baffled that you’re considering the run of for of one win in 12 as just some stat. 
 

The only player Rafa didn’t have that Carlo had because on the day he turned up at Finch Farm they were his players. Not talking about the injuries I was talking about the squad he was given. But the players you mentioned as being missing for Rafa, Carlo also had injuries and I have just listed them in another post. 

How many players have missed many games due to Covid for us this season? We had the Chelsea game and we got a great result there, but other than that we’ve had games cancelled, but what players have missed what games from covid? But I don’t see this as being such as issue as the other 19 teams are dealing with this too!

I get the impression you’re happy with how things are going from the posts you’re making, if im wrong then great, because I don’t understand how any Evertonian can be happy with anything this season. 

I’m just as baffled that you can’t grasp the concept of what I’m saying 

I have never once said that a run of 1 win in 12 is just a stat , I will say it again for a third time for you its a piss poor run of form and it’s not good enough BUT THERE ARE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES

We never had anywhere near the amount of injury problems last season as we have had this season, not all at the same time anyway

How many of the injuries from last season where in the second half of the season when we finished with 3 wins in 12 under Ancelotti ?

For years it’s been well documented we have had a decent starting XI but no depth.As soon as we’ve had one or two injuries we’ve struggled. There was a stat going around last season about how we had never won a single game without Richarlison . So to play most of this season without Richarlison, DCL, Doucoure and Mina and with Godfrey having to play when clearly effected by long covid it’s obviously going to have a huge negative effect

Gray, Branthwaite, Allan, Coleman and Rondon have also rumoured to have had Covid ( the club don’t confirm cases they were just out with illness ) which may not seem much but add them to the list of injured players and then it all adds up

You are off your tits if you think there is an Evertonian anywhere on the planet who is happy about the situation or the form 

How does me seeing the bigger picture and acknowledging the reasons why we’ve been on such a poor run mean I’m happy?

[Shukes]

Please let’s not talk of last season under Carlo.

Honestly that football was borderline, Sam! Results were no better than this years… but football was absolutely atrocious. 
I have been to Goodison more this season than last, and can say a few things about this recent run.

Arsenal was one of the best battles I have watched for years. Coming form a losing position… and getting hit with two VARs… but still not giving up.

palace I was expecting more, but we were back to normal Everton.

Chelsea, we were savages by injury and covid, but hung on for life. Desperate performance but full of character.

Brighton. Hit after just two minutes. Chasing from then on and went further behind. Came out the second half and instead of rolling over, gave it a go. To little to late… but didn’t roll over and give up.

Perspective is, that no matter how disappointing some of those results are, there is a clear sign that character is getting back to where it should be. We are starting to fight, we are not giving up! 

This is a world away from the worlds greatest manager.

[Palfy]

I know there are quite a few on here that believe using our injuries as to why we’ve had such a bad run is an excuse to cover Benitez’s lack of ability as a manager, and that under Ancelotti we had pretty much the same team and preformed much better. Just to try and give a bit of perspective to this in our first 18 league games under Ancelotti.

DCL 15, Richarlison 15, Doucoure 13, and Mina 16. I was surprised at Mina’s run when he’s always injured, I chose these players because they are the spine of the team and probably the better players in the team, in comparison the first 18 league games under Benitez.

DCL 4, Richarlison 11, Doucoure 14, and Mina 7.

Not quite an even playing field for Benitez wouldn’t you all agree. so hopefully everyone will agree our current run of injuries would have a huge affect on team performance and should be taken into consideration and not dismissed as just an excuse. 

[Hafnia]

In any normal circumstances a team that has performed poorly under several managers with an evident lack of desire and consistency would have the fans happy at a manager who is prepared to put players out the club.

The fact that it’s Rafa has meant that fans have got behind Digne…..  the prick doesn’t want to play for us and I’ve not seen anything from him on the pitch that suggests he is committed.

we lose games and his agent posts up positives about his stats that Digne ‘likes’……. Seems he is a bit of a nob.

 

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Sorry I can’t agree with any of that

No it’s not a joke you are looking at the stat in complete isolation and are totally ignoring any form of context

Context? What about being hammered at home by Watford, among the prime candidates for relegation? One in 12 can indeed be deceptive, but what about losing to Palace - a mid-table team at best? Or not even managing a goal against Brentford, which almost every other team (even Port Vale today) has done? How much context would you like?

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Context? What about being hammered at home by Watford, among the prime candidates for relegation? One in 12 can indeed be deceptive, but what about losing to Palace - a mid-table team at best? Or not even managing a goal against Brentford (which almost every other team, even Port Vale today) has done? How much context would you like?

Last season lost at home to Newcastle, Burnley 0-2, 1-2 then lost to Fulham 0-2 and Sheffield United 0-1 both who were relegated, just looking never saw you shouting for Ancelotti’s head over those shocking results and we were being told we are going to get into Europe, a few of us did but only on our holidays. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I have never once said that a run of 1 win in 12 is just a stat , I will say it again for a third time for you its a piss poor run of form and it’s not good enough BUT THERE ARE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES

 

7 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Yes it’s a piss poor run and obviously is not good enough but why are people who are so fixated with that stat completely ignoring any form of context?

So what stat were you talking about then?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

3 minutes ago, StevO said:

 

So what stat were you talking about then?

Are you just trying to wind me up or do you really still not get it?

I said you were fixated with the stat because you are looking at it in isolation and completely ignoring everything else

I said yes it’s poor run of form and is not good enough ( 4th time! ) but and it’s a fucking big but there are mitigating circumstances 

You may think our squad is good enough to be able to cope with losing 5 or 6 key players , I don’t 

[Zoo 2.0]

Said in October he should go.

It's now January, and he should still go.

[StevO]

13 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Are you just trying to wind me up or do you really still not get it?

I said you were fixated with the stat because you are looking at it in isolation and completely ignoring everything else

I said yes it’s poor run of form and is not good enough ( 4th time! ) but and it’s a fucking big but there are mitigating circumstances 

You may think our squad is good enough to be able to cope with losing 5 or 6 key players , I don’t 

So you did say it was a stat then. 
No, I’m aware of the circumstances we’re in, but I honestly believe he should have done better with the players available to him. Not be in the top six or anything like that, but the games we have struggled in, against teams like Watford, Brentford and Palace we had enough quality out there to beat them. The team looks a mess, there doesn’t look like a plan, they don’t look prepared or organised. That’s not down to being poor players, it’s a lack of preparation and cohesion in the squad. 
Yes we should do better with all of our best players available, but even when we had them all back apart from DCL we were still shite. It’s like the whole plan is get him back and put crosses in the box, if Sam Allardyce had a plan like that he would be hounded out. 

[Shukes]

Sam had his own transfer window and got worse. Much much worse…. He managed to go from a team creating little chances to a team creating zero! 
 

If Rafa manages anything near that, then without a doubt he should go.

[MC11]

The team has absolutely no identity. It’s 11 fellas running around like strangers. Absolutely no concept to our play. 

[Cornish Steve]

57 minutes ago, MC11 said:

The team has absolutely no identity. It’s 11 fellas running around like strangers. Absolutely no concept to our play. 

This is exactly the situation, and it makes you wonder what's happening at Finch Farm during the week. Players seem hesitant and unsure of the game plan. A surprising number of our goals are the result of impromptu individual creativity rather than deliberate team moves.

[London Blue]

8 hours ago, MC11 said:

The team has absolutely no identity. It’s 11 fellas running around like strangers. Absolutely no concept to our play. 

Yep.been saying this for a while now, Benitez has had a pre season and half a season to impose his style of play, tactics and ideas on this team, but as you say we have none of that. Either or players are not buying into it, or there is no plan, which I cant believe.

Yes we are short of midfielders with Allan, Doucoure, Gomes, all being injured at points, Davies being out for months and Gbamin coming back from 18 months out. Even so its very poor from the coaching side. 

I wanted Potter who is a great coach, but was ok with Benitez, now I am torn between wanting to give Benitez time as the thought of sacking yet another manager makes us look like even more of a joke, but I expected to see signs of improvement by now, a plan, a style, but there is none of those things. Or go for Potter or a manager who can coach. 

Right now I on giving Benitez till the end of the season, with a chance to get players in this window, a full squad and demand improvement. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rafa-benitez-everton-problem-mire-22689843

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

37 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Yep.been saying this for a while now, Benitez has had a pre season and half a season to impose his style of play, tactics and ideas on this team, but as you say we have none of that. Either or players are not buying into it, or there is no plan, which I cant believe.

Yes we are short of midfielders with Allan, Doucoure, Gomes, all being injured at points, Davies being out for months and Gbamin coming back from 18 months out. Even so its very poor from the coaching side. 

I wanted Potter who is a great coach, but was ok with Benitez, now I am torn between wanting to give Benitez time as the thought of sacking yet another manager makes us look like even more of a joke, but I expected to see signs of improvement by now, a plan, a style, but there is none of those things. Or go for Potter or a manager who can coach. 

Right now I on giving Benitez till the end of the season, with a chance to get players in this window, a full squad and demand improvement. 

It’s all good and well saying he has had enough time to impose his style of play on the team but if he doesn’t have half his squad available how is he supposed to do that?

Its pretty clear from his summer signings that he wanted to set the team up to play to DCL’s strengths but he has been out all season

I was torn over Rafa coming in and he certainly wasnt my preferred choice however it is what it is and now that he is here he has to be given a fair crack of the whip, which he hasn’t had yet

 

[London Blue]

3 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It’s all good and well saying he has had enough time to impose his style of play on the team but if he doesn’t have half his squad available how is he supposed to do that?

Its pretty clear from his summer signings that he wanted to set the team up to play to DCL’s strengths but he has been out all season

I was torn over Rafa coming in and he certainly wasnt my preferred choice however it is what it is and now that he is here he has to be given a fair crack of the whip, which he hasn’t had yet

 

Even with the injuries there should be a style of play, he has been training and coaching them for 6 months now. Every manager is going to play to DCL's strengths as he is our biggest goal threat, but we don't press in an organized way, we our positioning on  and off the ball is poor.  We don't look like a team that passes the ball with any fluidity, players don't seem to know where to be, defensively we have been very poor and look shambolic when defending corners, free kicks etc. There does not seem to be a plan.

All those things are on the manager and coaching staff.

[Shukes]

3 in 16….. or 2 wins and a draw in 5? 
 

Imagine being a Newcastle or Burnley fan at the moment. Or even a City fan! Meant to have one of the meanest defences in Europe and concede to a team even lowest than Hull city… their fans must be fuming.

FA cup third round is what makes football for me. Hull gave it everything, but ultimately out. 
Cambridge celebrated like they had just won the World Cup when they scored their solitary goal… but you could see what it meant to them.

This is a weekend where lower league players show up with their very best performances hoping to impress, hoping to create memory’s. But still premier league egos seem to think they have a right to turn up and roll these teams over. 
Luckily for us, while our fans premier league egos couldn’t help but come out to the forefront… the players held theirs in check and battled out a win.

[StevO]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It’s all good and well saying he has had enough time to impose his style of play on the team but if he doesn’t have half his squad available how is he supposed to do that?

 

It’s not like he only coached the players who went on to get injured. He coached every single player in the squad, and not one of them seems to know the plan. Even the players coming in for injured players should know what to do, even if not doing it to the level of our better players. But they don’t. 
We’re lucky we’ve got a few players with a big of magic in their boots last night. 

[StevO]

23 minutes ago, Shukes said:

3 in 16….. or 2 wins and a draw in 5? 
 

Imagine being a Newcastle or Burnley fan at the moment. Or even a City fan! Meant to have one of the meanest defences in Europe and concede to a team even lowest than Hull city… their fans must be fuming.

FA cup third round is what makes football for me. Hull gave it everything, but ultimately out. 
Cambridge celebrated like they had just won the World Cup when they scored their solitary goal… but you could see what it meant to them.

This is a weekend where lower league players show up with their very best performances hoping to impress, hoping to create memory’s. But still premier league egos seem to think they have a right to turn up and roll these teams over. 
Luckily for us, while our fans premier league egos couldn’t help but come out to the forefront… the players held theirs in check and battled out a win.

I agree with all of that, apart from battled out a win. Grey, Gordon and Townsend had more quality and made the difference. Didn’t see too much battling, not in blue shirts anyway. Saw plenty of battle from the Hull players though. Honeyman worked harder last night than I’ve seen an Everton player work all season. 

[Palfy]

21 hours ago, Bailey said:

Why do we know that? 

Look if Digne has kicked off and been a pain, I will be fully behind Benitez. 

As far as I am concerned its all he said, she said. Only those involved really know what has been said. 

Again if you wish to believe Benitez, that is your choice. I'll reserve my full opinion until more information comes out. 

Which basically means I not prepared to accept what Benitez has said, but if and when Digne says something I’m going to completely accept that. 

[Shukes]

46 minutes ago, StevO said:

I agree with all of that, apart from battled out a win. Grey, Gordon and Townsend had more quality and made the difference. Didn’t see too much battling, not in blue shirts anyway. Saw plenty of battle from the Hull players though. Honeyman worked harder last night than I’ve seen an Everton player work all season. 

I would say Allan covered every inch of the pitch mate. 
Godfrey was back to what he looked like at the start with lung busting runs.

And let’s be honest, it was really really poor finishing that meant the score was close, not chances created.

Gordon x 2 absolute sitters, Keane missed another, two certain penalty’s. It could easily have been a cake walk if a couple went in.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

It’s turning in to a pretty pointless thread now, the Rafa haters aren’t going to give him a chance no matter what and never where. I really do get why people hate him but he is here now so should be given a chance

For me it’s blindingly obvious  that if you rip out the entire spine of a side then form will suffer but even that argument doesn’t wash so there really is no point in discussing it

There are obviously valid points being made for instance we are undoubtedly a shambles at the back for set pieces , 5 at the back doesn’t work , some mad substitutions and they are on Rafa but even for all of those there are mitigating circumstances but some people just don’t want to acknowledge them 

If people are just hell bent on hating Rafa and won’t listen to facts then it’s end of chat

For the record I’m not pro Rafa I’m very much on the fence with him because I just don’t think he has been given a chance yet so it’s impossible to judge him one way or the other. Players are starting to come back now and the next few weeks will tell us all we need to know. If things don’t improve then I will be in the Rafa out camp as well 

Maybe if we hadn’t sacked so many managers in such a short period of time I wouldn’t be so patient but that’s the reason we are in this mess

If we do sack him how long do you give the next manager, 2 weeks? 2 months? 6 months?

What manager would risk coming here under those circumstances?

 

 

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It’s turning in to a pretty pointless thread now, the Rafa haters aren’t going to give him a chance no matter what and never where. I really do get why people hate him but he is here now so should be given a chance

For me it’s blindingly obvious  that if you rip out the entire spine of a side then form will suffer but even that argument doesn’t wash so there really is no point in discussing it

There are obviously valid points being made for instance we are undoubtedly a shambles at the back for set pieces , 5 at the back doesn’t work , some mad substitutions and they are on Rafa but even for all of those there are mitigating circumstances but some people just don’t want to acknowledge them 

If people are just hell bent on hating Rafa and won’t listen to facts then it’s end of chat

For the record I’m not pro Rafa I’m very much on the fence with him because I just don’t think he has been given a chance yet so it’s impossible to judge him one way or the other. Players are starting to come back now and the next few weeks will tell us all we need to know. If things don’t improve then I will be in the Rafa out camp as well 

Maybe if we hadn’t sacked so many managers in such a short period of time I wouldn’t be so patient but that’s the reason we are in this mess

If we do sack him how long do you give the next manager, 2 weeks? 2 months? 6 months?

What manager would risk coming here under those circumstances?

 

 

My father use to say it beggars belief what some people say or do, I’m feeling his frustration with this thread.  

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Maybe if we hadn’t sacked so many managers in such a short period of time I wouldn’t be so patient but that’s the reason we are in this mess

 

 

 

This for me. Firing a manager that isn’t working has been our only consistent strategy, and that’s not working either! 

[Formby]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

I agree with all of that, apart from battled out a win. Grey, Gordon and Townsend had more quality and made the difference. Didn’t see too much battling, not in blue shirts anyway. Saw plenty of battle from the Hull players though. Honeyman worked harder last night than I’ve seen an Everton player work all season. 

I am glad you pointed this out. Gray has been a fantastic acquisition from Benitez. The manager deserves massive credit for bringing him in, and perhaps more for getting such a high level of consistency from him (which was the big question mark against him). Gordon has also benefittted hugely from Benitez's man-management - which the player has singled out in interview. Again, great work by Benitez. Townsend has been another very decent pickup from the manager and brings much needed depth and desire and quality to the team. All three are big plus marks for the manager. Hopefully, the two young full backs will be just as good - we shall see.

Benitez's firm stance on Digne was just what was needed, too, so he gets more points from me in that regard. If you don't want to play for Everton, just go. Rondon has not been good but he was never meant to be leading the line so early. The manager gets a pass from me on that. He can't have foreseen DCL's injury and he would likely have been crucified if he had brought nobody in. Whatever you want to throw at Benitez in terms of formation and tactics, his man-management is good and his acquisitions have been better. I await the grenades and flame-throwers. The matchday thread yesterday was unbelievably polarised. I can't remember such divison since I've been on the board.   

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

My father use to say it beggars belief what some people say or do, I’m feeling his frustration with this thread.  

Trust me, the people with the opposite opinion are also finding this thread frustrating. 

[StevO]

48 minutes ago, Formby said:

I can't remember such divison since I've been on the board.   

I can’t remember such division as an Evertonian other than opinions on Bill Kenwright. This one is on Moshiri for putting us in this position by hiring Rafa in the first place. 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

yea let’s blame Rafa for this. Squad is a joke. Brands had a lot of wins but the task of overcoming Walsh’s misses and overspending, Big Sam, and a few glaring misses of his own is still happening. 

[Cornish Steve]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

3 in 16….. or 2 wins and a draw in 5? 
 

Imagine being a Newcastle or Burnley fan at the moment. Or even a City fan! Meant to have one of the meanest defences in Europe and concede to a team even lowest than Hull city… their fans must be fuming.

FA cup third round is what makes football for me. Hull gave it everything, but ultimately out. 
Cambridge celebrated like they had just won the World Cup when they scored their solitary goal… but you could see what it meant to them.

This is a weekend where lower league players show up with their very best performances hoping to impress, hoping to create memory’s. But still premier league egos seem to think they have a right to turn up and roll these teams over. 
Luckily for us, while our fans premier league egos couldn’t help but come out to the forefront… the players held theirs in check and battled out a win.

The difference is that those other Prem teams essentially played their second team. We played most of our first team.