RuffRob Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 hours ago, FairWooney said: The talk of Martinez is suicidal to me. He always refused to drop the passing game at all costs and in the position we are in we can't afford to start trying to get that right. His style of play also requires the kind of quality creative players that we don't have. He's enjoyed a few years of KDB in his side, he'd be going back to McNeil, Gordon, Gray and Iwobi! (highest XGA for our players is 0.15 per game, KDB has 0.5 in premier league!). -- Lampard has shown both last season and in games like the Man City one that he can get the team up for the fight and well organised enough to keep a side out. If you are going to play counter attack you are a lot less reliant on real quality creative players, you need players well drilled in making a quick break and making sure they look up for quick passes to pick out other runners. Richarlison was well suited to the counter as he had pace, could run at people and well having to play hold up was good at winning a foul. DCL isn't quite so good but is decent on hold up. Iwobi, Gordon and Gray should all be very capable in this and both did ok last season when needing to play that way. As you've said @RuffRob this is a way we can play if we have to and if we don't have the resources to invest in improvements to the squad it is probably the best way forwards at the moment. Obviously, in some games you can be more expansive than others, pressing further up the field but as we've consistently found that we can't open teams up when they have players behind the ball we need to look at going with this approach for the most part Yeah, we have half a season to try and play football, its just not worked with the players we currently had available, so its time to tighten right up and grind out results. The Brighton game should have been primary about not getting beat and building confidence on the back the Man City performance. Teams are currently look at us an easy meal. Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 Low block and hit on the counter, sadly and play the attacking game against teams once we have confidence. Billwelshblue, Shukes and RuffRob 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 In the bottom 3 as it stands now. Anything but a win against Southampton and I think he will be gone. United game is a throw away unfortunately given the current situation. badaids 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 39 minutes ago, Btay said: In the bottom 3 as it stands now. Anything but a win against Southampton and I think he will be gone. United game is a throw away unfortunately given the current situation. If we can’t beat Southampton at home then he deserves to be gone and we deserve to be relegated. Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 50 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: If we can’t beat Southampton at home then he deserves to be gone and we deserve to be relegated. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memmaclub2 Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 How does he get another game after last night. He is a dead man walking and any win is small rest bite as the combination of club player manager is busted. I would rather give another manager the shampton game Billwelshblue, MikeO and Bailey 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 4, 2023 Report Share Posted January 4, 2023 Lampard doesn't have a clue how to set a team up to break the opposition down. It was obvious enough against Wolves but if you couldn't see that last night against Brighton, you need to watch the game again. The quality of the Brighton front 3 wasn't that great but they destroyed us. Ill read you the names, a young lad called Ferguson with 1 league goal to his name on his 4th appearance. Solly March, yep, Solly March. Then Mitouma who looks a talent albeit in his first season in the league and with only 2 goals to his name from 12 appearances. They didn't destroy us through talent, they destroyed us through a manager that knows how to attack teams. Mitouma and March were always on for the switch because they spread the pitch. As soon as they got through our press, they were in acres of space time after time. What do we do week after week, leave Gray/Gordon/McNeil against 2 v 1's by getting the ball to them so slowly that the other team is back in shape. A lot of people are also advocating how Lampard can set us up well in a low block using the City game as an example. We should have been beaten by Man City, we got lucky that they had an off day. I think some of you have forgotten how bad we were last season too. In our low block, playing terrible football, we shipped 3 against Brentford, 2 (and 4) against Palace, 3 against Burnley and 5 against Arsenal. Yes there were some better defensive performances in there too, but we were still poor at the back. It wasn't like we were suddenly a solid team and could keep teams out. I completely get that the rot goes far deeper than Lampard, but Lampard is a poor manager. Tactically his terrible and slow to react. The players he has signed have got worse under him. Bar Iwobi, there isn't one player that he has improved that he inherited. There isn't one metric of a manager that you would look at Lampard's time here and say he has done well. It was touched on by someone else too, but he has an expensively assembled and experienced backroom staff too and they are all failing massively. I do agree that there is a desperate need for stability at this club but that doesn't mean you just stick with someone who is clearly failing at his job. One thing I do worry about though is that the board listened to the fans when they brought in Lampard. They sure as fuck won't do it again. Billwelshblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 His in game management is so bad we were one down and he didn't change anything then waited to make subs he changes tactics from game to game. We are a limited team we need to be solid and try and nick things if we are honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 3 hours ago, Btay said: In the bottom 3 as it stands now. Anything but a win against Southampton and I think he will be gone. United game is a throw away unfortunately given the current situation. Shouldn't get that game because he is done I have no confidence in us getting a result we need a new manager in for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 Martinez is Blue Bill again so is Rooney fella is mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 Clueless fucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said: Clueless fucks. So…… get snotted 4-1 by Brighton, get snotted twice by Bournemouth before World Cup, get beat by wolves……. But do something against United in a cup competition that literally now has no importance to our season and things are good? the reality is we will need to save our players for league games as we literally can’t risk losing them in the cup. Horrible but that’s the way it is. StevO, Romey 1878 and Billwelshblue 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 I think he needs to play the team he has in mind for the Saints game, and if they don't gel or play well, at least he knows it doesn't work and gives him time to re-evaluate., because the most important game of the 2 is the league game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 minute ago, RPG said: The problem with that is that Man U will pose us a very different set of tactical problems to Soton. If he sets up against Man U with his planned starting eleven v Soton I think Man U will tear us a new one. I think it should be 3 at the back v Man U and if it works Frank then has a very difficult choice to make. Three at the back v Soton may seem defeatist but it may be the way to go. My point though, is that they are two very different games requiring different set ups and probably different players. They will but win or lose he needs to see if they can or are prepared to put a performance in as a team that can be used to win the Saints game, if they just fold with no fight or being able to play as unit then he at least has time change and look at other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 I think we need to stick with the back 3/5 - it seems to suit the players we have. We’re not blessed with expansive/ consistent wingers and look so easy to defend against in a 433, 4231, 4321 or whatever it is… Look at Chelsea under Tuchel - 3/5 at the back - sometimes Hudson-Odoi at wing-back when they need to be more attacking. We’re nowhere near Chelsea in terms of quality but why not have Gordon (or Iwobi when fit) at RWB in games we want to be on the front foot? We’d still be ‘solid’ with the 3 and Mykolenko and midfield cover. Same can be said for McNeill as LWB as long as it’s Coleman on the right. Stick to a system - make it simple - I genuinely think it’s our best bet. Wall Writer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, c1982 said: I think we need to stick with the back 3/5 - it seems to suit the players we have. We’re not blessed with expansive/ consistent wingers and look so easy to defend against in a 433, 4231, 4321 or whatever it is… Look at Chelsea under Tuchel - 3/5 at the back - sometimes Hudson-Odoi at wing-back when they need to be more attacking. We’re nowhere near Chelsea in terms of quality but why not have Gordon (or Iwobi when fit) at RWB in games we want to be on the front foot? We’d still be ‘solid’ with the 3 and Mykolenko and midfield cover. Same can be said for McNeill as LWB as long as it’s Coleman on the right. Stick to a system - make it simple - I genuinely think it’s our best bet. I’m willing to give anything g a go at this point and I fucking despise that formation . What I do find worrying is that even with 5 defenders we look shocking defensively. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, RPG said: But less shocking than with a back four! Im not sure about that. When we play with 5 we usually sit very deep. When we play with 4 recently we hav tried to push up the pitch. Play deeper with 4 and I suspect we will look less shocking. Matt, Romey 1878 and Billwelshblue 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, RPG said: Maybe. For me, the biggest single cause of our on field problems (and I acknowledge there are quite a few) is the continued lack of a striker who can hold the ball up. Once DCL came on last night, the ball stuck (more often than not) when the midfield passed and moved forward. This positively impacted the entire team dynamic and got us playing a lot more on the front foot which, in turn, meant the ball wasn't continually being turned over in midfield or attack and then coming straight back at our over worked defence. I thought the substitute that had the most impact last night was Doucoure he drove the team forward, he was back to his best of last season. Your right though DCL does show what we have been missing upfront, he's our outlet when we are under pressure with his hold up play, which brings me to the question of who's idea was it to bring in Maupay and think he could replicate that. Also DCL disallowed goal was the closest I've seen him look since the Ancelotti season, where he scored plenty of similar goals in that fashion, of a good run into the 6 yard box and muscling players out the way to get the final touch, liked that a lot. Wiggytop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 We played ok last night, lots of spirit and fight to come back from a goal down, and cause them problems. Not having a proper striker to lead the line is a big cause of our problems, we carry little threat so teams just brush us aside knowing that we struggle to score. It also means we don't have a focal point in attack who wingers and creative players can look to play off, and we lack confidence. If we can get a creative midfielder, a winger and striker and keep DCL fit then we will be fine. Got to stick with Lampard and see this through. Matt and Wiggytop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 We miss DCL as the focal point so much when he’s not available, he wins headers, holds the ball and puts a decent tackle in, which helps lift the team, Godfrey tackles do the same. Ings has been discussed, atm I’d be happy to see if we could swap Maupay for Ings, surely one of Ings and DCL would be fit for each game. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Wiggytop said: Ings has been discussed, atm I’d be happy to see if we could swap Maupay for Ings, surely one of Ings and DCL would be fit for each game. If only, but seriously can't see any other club in the PL who would seriously look at Maupay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Palfy said: If only, but seriously can't see any other club in the PL who would seriously look at Maupay. No one, but I have a dream Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 7 hours ago, RPG said: Maybe. For me, the biggest single cause of our on field problems (and I acknowledge there are quite a few) is the continued lack of a striker who can hold the ball up. Once DCL came on last night, the ball stuck (more often than not) when the midfield passed and moved forward. This positively impacted the entire team dynamic and got us playing a lot more on the front foot which, in turn, meant the ball wasn't continually being turned over in midfield or attack and then coming straight back at our over worked defence. I would say I am undecided on this. I don't think we did anything of note when United brought on a genuine centre back. DCL's best moments came up against Shaw, including for the disallowed goal as a proper CB would have stopped that ball getting to him. Dom showed next to nothing against Brighton and certainly didn't help us get on the front foot there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RuffRob Posted January 7, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 Dom is no where near match fit - he has now been injured for most part of over a season now. So time is needed for him to be back to his best - you just now hope and pray he stays fit and injury free to the end of the season. If he doesn't I fear we go down. Our single biggest problem is that we do not have a viable striker to replace him when he isn't fit. And to me that is not something that Lampard can be really blamed for - Lampard will have been desperate for another striker, particularly when Dom was injured at the beginning of this season. The club did not get anything over the line (most likely because we had no money to spend when it really needed), and the team are struggling to finish chances and score goals. If Dom (or another proven striker) was available for most of our games I am fairly sure we could quite easily be 5-6 better off at this moment in time, and sitting mid tableish. We know Lampard is not the finished article as a manager, he has limited experience and ability and I don't really expect him to work miracles as a manager and coach - he has not been there and seen it all. He is however, an intelligent and articulate, passionate and hardworking chap, who I think could develop in to a very good manager, in the same way an inexperienced Onana can develop in to a very good midfielder. Signs of good stuff and signs of poor decisions from both - intelligent people often learn more from bad decisions, but time and patience is required. The board and to some extent us fans can lack patience, because its in tough moments like we are currently in when they are actually truly tested. It seems to me that Lampard has not lost the dressing room in anyway, and the players are fully behind him. If people are just hoping for the new manager bounce effect to get some points on the board, I am not sure how well this actually works when you sack a manager who the players are with and behind. Romey 1878, Matt, AlbanyNYToffee and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 7, 2023 Report Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, RPG said: Yes, Dom wasn't too good v Brighton but I thought he showed a big improvement v Man U which helped the entire team when he came on. I would attribute that to a player starting a game versus a player coming off the bench against tired legs. At least without further evidence to the contrary. Again though, once Man Utd brought on a proper centre half and moved Shaw wide, the impact wasn't the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 Better performance but still not convinced what worries me most is that Frank can't change it if we are losing to affect a game and if we stumble on a formation that suits us the 532 he chops and changes it at home it's ok playing United and city and countering them but when you have to break down teams you need good coaching and tactical awareness from the manager. I am not seeing enough of it from Frank so it worries me he's getting the must-win the game against Saints because I don't have confidence in him and I wanted it to work!! I am begging for three points Saturday though because our crisis could plumb new depths. If they are sticking with Frank back him with player if like me you believe his record if three wins all season is unacceptable you sack him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 On 07/01/2023 at 15:10, RuffRob said: Dom is no where near match fit - he has now been injured for most part of over a season now. So time is needed for him to be back to his best - you just now hope and pray he stays fit and injury free to the end of the season. If he doesn't I fear we go down. Our single biggest problem is that we do not have a viable striker to replace him when he isn't fit. And to me that is not something that Lampard can be really blamed for - Lampard will have been desperate for another striker, particularly when Dom was injured at the beginning of this season. The club did not get anything over the line (most likely because we had no money to spend when it really needed), and the team are struggling to finish chances and score goals. If Dom (or another proven striker) was available for most of our games I am fairly sure we could quite easily be 5-6 better off at this moment in time, and sitting mid tableish. We know Lampard is not the finished article as a manager, he has limited experience and ability and I don't really expect him to work miracles as a manager and coach - he has not been there and seen it all. He is however, an intelligent and articulate, passionate and hardworking chap, who I think could develop in to a very good manager, in the same way an inexperienced Onana can develop in to a very good midfielder. Signs of good stuff and signs of poor decisions from both - intelligent people often learn more from bad decisions, but time and patience is required. The board and to some extent us fans can lack patience, because its in tough moments like we are currently in when they are actually truly tested. It seems to me that Lampard has not lost the dressing room in anyway, and the players are fully behind him. If people are just hoping for the new manager bounce effect to get some points on the board, I am not sure how well this actually works when you sack a manager who the players are with and behind. I want to support him because I believe sticking with one manager is what we need to rebuild, and I like the guy but that manager has to show what he is working towards in terms of football identity and have a baseline of results. And whilst I totally agree the players are still trying for him and the board have dealt him a bad a is s you say the lack of quality up front is chronic selling Richy and replacing with two squad players was poor, but even given all of that is he really getting the best out of this team? It's all very well the players liking him bit do they fear him if they lose? I am just not seeing it and his tactics don't put them in the best position to win for me. His record is below a point a game I think any other EPL manager is sacked with that record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 On 07/01/2023 at 05:12, Bailey said: Im not sure about that. When we play with 5 we usually sit very deep. When we play with 4 recently we hav tried to push up the pitch. Play deeper with 4 and I suspect we will look less shocking. Agree but also the midfield is pressing too high emptying the space, its why Brighton played through us so easily and what worries me badly about Franks tactics Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billwelshblue Posted January 9, 2023 Report Share Posted January 9, 2023 On 04/01/2023 at 22:59, Bailey said: Lampard doesn't have a clue how to set a team up to break the opposition down. It was obvious enough against Wolves but if you couldn't see that last night against Brighton, you need to watch the game again. The quality of the Brighton front 3 wasn't that great but they destroyed us. Ill read you the names, a young lad called Ferguson with 1 league goal to his name on his 4th appearance. Solly March, yep, Solly March. Then Mitouma who looks a talent albeit in his first season in the league and with only 2 goals to his name from 12 appearances. They didn't destroy us through talent, they destroyed us through a manager that knows how to attack teams. Mitouma and March were always on for the switch because they spread the pitch. As soon as they got through our press, they were in acres of space time after time. What do we do week after week, leave Gray/Gordon/McNeil against 2 v 1's by getting the ball to them so slowly that the other team is back in shape. A lot of people are also advocating how Lampard can set us up well in a low block using the City game as an example. We should have been beaten by Man City, we got lucky that they had an off day. I think some of you have forgotten how bad we were last season too. In our low block, playing terrible football, we shipped 3 against Brentford, 2 (and 4) against Palace, 3 against Burnley and 5 against Arsenal. Yes there were some better defensive performances in there too, but we were still poor at the back. It wasn't like we were suddenly a solid team and could keep teams out. I completely get that the rot goes far deeper than Lampard, but Lampard is a poor manager. Tactically his terrible and slow to react. The players he has signed have got worse under him. Bar Iwobi, there isn't one player that he has improved that he inherited. There isn't one metric of a manager that you would look at Lampard's time here and say he has done well. It was touched on by someone else too, but he has an expensively assembled and experienced backroom staff too and they are all failing massively. I do agree that there is a desperate need for stability at this club but that doesn't mean you just stick with someone who is clearly failing at his job. One thing I do worry about though is that the board listened to the fans when they brought in Lampard. They sure as fuck won't do it again. Spot on and we are run godawfully and yet I don't think Frank is the right man either and I was trying my best to back him until Brighton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 Almost seems like FL is committing suicide - he's had enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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