marcopaulo Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 He's alright for a 22 year old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Barkley has equally as many faults as Rom does in my opinion. Had we loaned Ross 2 years ago off Chelsea, then bought him last summer for 28mil i would be a whole lot more pissed and considering it a waste of money then what we have gotten from Lukaku. Barkleys faults are mental which is understandable for a midfielder who had a near career ending injury, his role is far more complex than that of a striker. Attribute wise there is no comparison - Barkley is a pure talent. His technical levels are in a whole different league to most players. I expect to see Barkley progress far more than any other player we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 This thread should go back to being about the player. Your all as bad as each other. Having digs at Haf all the time then complaining when he bites. It's a forum and we should all be allowed to voice our opinions......whether they are right or wrong, it doesn't matter. So is this Lukaku any good or what? I'm glad that hasnt been missed... 1. Article released that protrays rom in some positive light 2. subtle digs, leading to not so subtle digs bring "haf out" 3. haf cuts through the spin in order to stop the OTT praise 4. all turns into haf hates rom - rinse and repeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As I said yesterday, nobody is placing him in the list, it's just that that's where he is in the list. It's a fact, nobody on TT created it. Does that mean anyone's saying he's as good as Messi? Of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm glad that hasnt been missed... 1. Article released that protrays rom in some positive light 2. subtle digs, leading to not so subtle digs bring "haf out" 3. haf cuts through the spin in order to stop the OTT praise 4. all turns into haf hates rom - rinse and repeat you missed step 2 - Haf goes on a random analogy to prove why he is right and all stats and proof to the contrary are wrong, siting failing players as better players and using the "sacrificial goat" speech when he can't see it's exactly what he's doing himself. Shukes, the threads turn into "wind up Haf" threads for 1 reason only... duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 you missed step 2 - Haf goes on a random analogy to prove why he is right and all stats and proof to the contrary are wrong, siting failing players as better players and using the "sacrificial goat" speech when he can't see it's exactly what he's doing himself. Shukes, the threads turn into "wind up Haf" threads for 1 reason only... step 3.1:- Matt gets very emotional and confuses critiquing a player with not supporting the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 step 3.1:- Matt gets very emotional and confuses critiquing a player with not supporting the player. Hardly emotional. More frustrated that players like Alcaraz, McGeady, Kone will all "come good" despite every evidence to the contrary whilst a developing player is ripped apart because he was expensive.... duncanmckenzieismagic and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 no right foot lazy poor in the air poor control loses the ball poor back to goal loses balance when physically challenged Foolishly stepping in where more sensible folk, not to mention angels, should fear to tread, I seek clarification. Specifically, is hafnia's list here accurate? I tend to think it is. Not that it's the whole picture of Lukaku's game, but a substantial, and obviously negative, part of what he does on the pitch. My quest here is to see if there's actually agreement with the substance of this specific list of Lukaku's weaknesses. Not asking whether hafnia nor anyone else is being unfair, as Rom is still a young lad. Nor anything whatsoever about his fee. Just asking: 1. Whether, right now, so far, is this list an accurate accounting of his flaws? For example, does he in fact lose balance when challenged? I've not been watching carefully enough to remember. Is he lazy? He sure does irritate me with his tendency to be offsides, but maybe that's something other than laziness. (Normal striker stupidity and self-importance?). Is he in fact poor in the air? Etc. 2. What are his strengths? List several. I'm glad he's a Toffee. (Both Rom and hafnia, to be clear.). Not perfect, to be sure. (Neither Rom nor hafnia.). So, if -- if -- hafnia's substantive critique is pretty much spot on, for Lukaku to achieve his great promise, which of these flaws must he correct in the coming, let's say, 2 seasons? And which of his strengths must he maintain and even improve upon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Foolishly stepping in where more sensible folk, not to mention angels, should fear to tread, I seek clarification. Specifically, is hafnia's list here accurate? I tend to think it is. Not that it's the whole picture of Lukaku's game, but a substantial, and obviously negative, part of what he does on the pitch. My quest here is to see if there's actually agreement with the substance of this specific list of Lukaku's weaknesses. Not asking whether hafnia nor anyone else is being unfair, as Rom is still a young lad. Nor anything whatsoever about his fee. Just asking: 1. Whether, right now, so far, is this list an accurate accounting of his flaws? For example, does he in fact lose balance when challenged? I've not been watching carefully enough to remember. Is he lazy? He sure does irritate me with his tendency to be offsides, but maybe that's something other than laziness. (Normal striker stupidity and self-importance?). Is he in fact poor in the air? Etc. 2. What are his strengths? List several. I'm glad he's a Toffee. (Both Rom and hafnia, to be clear.). Not perfect, to be sure. (Neither Rom nor hafnia.). So, if -- if -- hafnia's substantive critique is pretty much spot on, for Lukaku to achieve his great promise, which of these flaws must he correct in the coming, let's say, 2 seasons? And which of his strengths must he maintain and even improve upon? good post, I think in this instance it will be fair to put strengths down:- Strengths:- Left foot :- very powerful and can be extremely accurate, has a tendancy to hit it over the bar when ball comes towards him but it is a cannon and hard to save when on target at power. Confidence:- loads of self belief which is vital in a striker Pace:- whe he gets into his stride he takes some catching Moments of inspiration:- he has match winning potential when "the moment strikes" - a valuable asset in any team Development:- he needs to recognise that he has to improve without that its futile. Hopefully with that realisation will come an upshift in his work ethic. This is why I get so irritated by the level of "profile" he attracts. Other fans see the flawed player but ridicule us fans because we behave in such a "so happy to have him" manner when he often touts himself up. My main concern is that he does switch of. Big Dunc got slammed for being a player who could only get up for certain games and Rom seems to have that in him. Edited July 13, 2015 by Hafnia Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I often think when you get plays with certain builds at a young age, parts of their development go missing. For example, Fellaini and Crouch both can't jump, but when they were developing they would have been so much bigger than the other kids they never needed to so didn't learn. Cahill can jump as high as anybody, because he would have had to because the other kids were bigger. Ron would have been taller and stronger than the other kids. So never had to jump to win a header, never had to wrestle a defender, probably never had to control a ball because he could just run past everyone else with his pace and strength. So these parts of his game never got the attention they needed because they never needed to at important parts of his development. Neglect from coaches in my opinion but you see it in many players. Just a couple of my thoughts there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) hafnia, on 10 Jul 2015 - 15:17, said: no right foot lazy poor in the air poor control loses the ball poor back to goal loses balance when physically challenged Foolishly stepping in where more sensible folk, not to mention angels, should fear to tread, I seek clarification. Specifically, is hafnia's list here accurate? I tend to think it is. Not that it's the whole picture of Lukaku's game, but a substantial, and obviously negative, part of what he does on the pitch. My quest here is to see if there's actually agreement with the substance of this specific list of Lukaku's weaknesses. Not asking whether hafnia nor anyone else is being unfair, as Rom is still a young lad. Nor anything whatsoever about his fee. Just asking: 1. Whether, right now, so far, is this list an accurate accounting of his flaws? For example, does he in fact lose balance when challenged? I've not been watching carefully enough to remember. Is he lazy? He sure does irritate me with his tendency to be offsides, but maybe that's something other than laziness. (Normal striker stupidity and self-importance?). Is he in fact poor in the air? Etc. 2. What are his strengths? List several. I'm glad he's a Toffee. (Both Rom and hafnia, to be clear.). Not perfect, to be sure. (Neither Rom nor hafnia.). So, if -- if -- hafnia's substantive critique is pretty much spot on, for Lukaku to achieve his great promise, which of these flaws must he correct in the coming, let's say, 2 seasons? And which of his strengths must he maintain and even improve upon? No right foot - no, but it is definitely weaker and he can still score with it. Lazy - sometimes, but no more so than several other players and certainly no more so than other strikers. Emphesis on the word "striker" here, which is what he was brought in for. Poor in the air - He is weak at winning balls in the air to hold the ball up, but sometimes he is very good at it. My argument in support of him here, is that it is not his job. You ask Coleman to play CB and he will be ok, making quite a few mistakes along the way. But he is in the team to do a job, so play to his strengths Poor control - no, average control that will improve with experience Loses the ball - again, sometimes but no more / less than others. My argument against this is that it this lose of possession is usually because he is being asked to drop back and link up play, rather than being allowed to be the spearhead goalscorer, which he was brought in for Poor back to goal - don't agree at all, unless we're talking again about the hold up play, in which case yes. But again, its not his job to do. Balance - again, sometimes but he will improve. 1. It may be accurate when looking at specific games but overall, its overly harsh for a developing player who has said he wants to develop and no doubt is challenging himself by putting himself into situations where he needs to improve upon (with Robertos instruction and blessing of course). 2. Ok... a. Extremely good finisher with his left and head. b. Extremely strong on the ball when running with it, or latching on to a through ball. He can shrug off most players when doing this. c. Match winner, but only when we play to his strengths. Average when we don't but if you ask any player to develop his game by addressing his weak points, this is true too. d. Masses of potential to be one of the best strikers around. Masses. e. Distribution / awareness is excellent when on the attack. He can spread the ball remarkably well and can be very unselfish, which shows a desire for the good of the clubs result over his own scoring record. It will take time (not 1 game, not even a season) to address the weak points, and (I'm not saying this to wind up here) he has plenty of time to develop this areas of improvement because of his age and ambition. good post, I think in this instance it will be fair to put strengths down:- Strengths:- Left foot :- very powerful and can be extremely accurate, has a tendancy to hit it over the bar when ball comes towards him but it is a cannon and hard to save when on target at power. Confidence:- loads of self belief which is vital in a striker Pace:- whe he gets into his stride he takes some catching Moments of inspiration:- he has match winning potential when "the moment strikes" - a valuable asset in any team Development:- he needs to recognise that he has to improve without that its futile. Hopefully with that realisation will come an upshift in his work ethic. This is why I get so irritated by the level of "profile" he attracts. Other fans see the flawed player but ridicule us fans because we behave in such a "so happy to have him" manner when he often touts himself up. My main concern is that he does switch of. Big Dunc got slammed for being a player who could only get up for certain games and Rom seems to have that in him. I think thats the first balanced post you've made. I cannot argue with any of that, its spot on. Look. I raise to the challenge of defending our player, not just because of the OTT criticism but of the absolute unbalanced nature of the arguments against him. Any good he does is just expected, so its not acknowledged, so move on to only the negatives. That, and the constant defense of poor players (all of whom I start off defending to the death until I see they've proven me wrong e.g. McGeady, Kone, Alcaraz) rathar than being balanced in criticizing all players drives me up the wall Again, it's been asked who is making him out to be a super star (not part of these 2 posts, I know). I'm not making him out to be a super star, I have never said he is there... Yet. But I can see he has all the skills to be up there given the right development, coaching and, most importantly, the time to reach his potential. He will play regular CL by the time he is 25-27, I've no doubt in my mind. In the meantime, I look forward to him helping himself, which means us, get better and better. Nearly all this can be applied to Barkley too. Edited July 13, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Actually, I think Rom is pretty good with his back to the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 world beater in the making romelu is. love the lad, really glad he plays for us. he's a beast on his day. i will be sad when he leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I often think when you get plays with certain builds at a young age, parts of their development go missing. For example, Fellaini and Crouch both can't jump, but when they were developing they would have been so much bigger than the other kids they never needed to so didn't learn. Cahill can jump as high as anybody, because he would have had to because the other kids were bigger. Ron would have been taller and stronger than the other kids. So never had to jump to win a header, never had to wrestle a defender, probably never had to control a ball because he could just run past everyone else with his pace and strength. So these parts of his game never got the attention they needed because they never needed to at important parts of his development. Neglect from coaches in my opinion but you see it in many players. Just a couple of my thoughts there anyway. This is the reason Gerrard is so good in the air and physically strong as he was not very big as a kid - he had to exert maximum effort to compete with the other kids. He then had a growth spurt and reatained that knowledge of how to use what he had. I have no doubt that Rom was probably penalised if he used his size as a kid, so much so that he didn't bother using strength and its a big miss. I've seen a picxture of him somewhere and he like one foot bigger than the other kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Actually, I think Rom is pretty good with his back to the goal. Have you watched Lukaku in your lifetime? He's one of the worst I've ever seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Once he learns to relish a strong challenge with a CB and winning them he will get better in the air, honestly I feel sometimes he gets under the goal kicks intentionally to avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 His goal against WBA at The Hawthorns suggests he does have a right foot. And his debut goal against West Ham and his header against the shite at Goodison (an absolute bullet) suggest he can head the ball very well. They're just things he needs to work on and improve on. Players aren't perfect. They have some things that they're good at and other things that they're not so good at. Be grateful for what he's good at instead of concentrating on the bad about him. It's not even just about Lukaku. Our fans did it with Yakubu too and it got on my tits. I'm going to regret this post aren't I? I can feel the ramifications - just when I think I'm out, they drag me back in! Sibdane, Btay, duncanmckenzieismagic and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Spot on, Mark. Yak frustrated the life out of me. Embodiment of lazy and weak (when it suited him at least) Edited July 13, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 rom's one of the best player we have, also his accent is hilarious (in a laughing at him kinda way). i will keep posting positive rom attributes in this thread to negate the haf factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Have you watched Lukaku in your lifetime? He's one of the worst I've ever seen Yes, of course I have. The next time we see an example in a game, let's discuss it. I seem to remember one game in particular last season where he held up the ball wonderfully well and laid off well to a teammate. It was not by any means an isolated incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/romelu-lukaku-everton-west-brom.gif?w=480&h=264 Shitty right foot on that Lukaku! (Dammit. I just read Romey's post. I've been driving all afternoon and wanted to respond to Haf's bit about him having no right foot, but he beat me to it!) Edited July 13, 2015 by JoeQuince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 rom's one of the best player we have, also his accent is hilarious (in a laughing at him kinda way). i will keep posting positive rom attributes in this thread to negate the haf factor. That's very admirable of you Mark, maybe if we all adopt such a mentality maybe the powers that be will get away with outsourcing every last source of income, maybe even sell the undersoil heating and sign us up for a 20 year contract with kitbag and Chang in exchange for 250k a year. Lets not dare to critique and challenge elements of poor performance, the days of being ambitious Mersey millionaires are gone, let's just be happy with people who do "ok" duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/romelu-lukaku-everton-west-brom.gif?w=480&h=264 Shitty right foot on that Lukaku! (Dammit. I just read Romey's post. I've been driving all afternoon and wanted to respond to Haf's bit about him having no right foot, but he beat me to it!) Don't get your knickers in a twist, some of the greatest footballers ever have been one footed - at the same time don't get all excited over Roms goal. Unless you are being selective it is fair to say Rom is poor on his right foot. Even a blind squirrel finds the odd nut. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Lukaku is OK, not brilliant but OK. He may be able to iron out his faults with experience, but at 22 he is stuck with what 'natural' ability he has. First touch is 'natural' he will only improve marginally with practise. He reminds me of Heskey, big lad who doesn't punch his weight. Should be scoring loads of goals from headers but he can't head the ball. OK but not worth £28m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Don't get your knickers in a twist, some of the greatest footballers ever have been one footed - at the same time don't get all excited over Roms goal. Unless you are being selective it is fair to say Rom is poor on his right foot. Even a blind squirrel finds the odd nut. He's left-footed. No, he's not elite with both feet. But, he has the confidence and skill to just go ahead and bend in a shot like that with his right. And that's good enough. I wouldn't describe him as poor with his weak foot. I would say he could improve his back-to-goal play (which he started to do this past season), jumping/heading, physicality, intensity, first touch (started to improve this as well) and close control while running (he leans a bit too far forward and his feet and the ball get behind him). However, none of this means that he isn't a good striker. He could be elite if he improved a few of those things. Every player has aspects of their game that are lacking. It's about identifying those things and working on them in training to improve them a bit, while also having an identity as a player. We also need to play to his strengths as much as he needs to work to improve those weaker aspects of his game. He has great technique, excellent vision, a rocket for a left foot, and can find the back of the net. He makes good runs, and we need to start getting the ball to him when he's making these runs. He will finish or find the person who can. He's shown this repeatedly. You can't ignore that. holystove, duncanmckenzieismagic, Sibdane and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 That's very admirable of you Mark, maybe if we all adopt such a mentality maybe the powers that be will get away with outsourcing every last source of income, maybe even sell the undersoil heating and sign us up for a 20 year contract with kitbag and Chang in exchange for 250k a year. Lets not dare to critique and challenge elements of poor performance, the days of being ambitious Mersey millionaires are gone, let's just be happy with people who do "ok" i've no problem critisizing the board or kenwright or elstone at all. i have a problem with your bashing on romelu. it's like you've driven cheap Ford vehicles your whole life and gotten by and done well but now you've upgraded to a nice Mercedes. and that whip is nice as hell! clean, fast, slick, looks good and performs great. out performs your Fords by light year, yet you're bitching because the neighbor has a Ferrari. FFS you've got a benz, enjoy it before the repo man comes and you're back to Ford's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 i've no problem critisizing the board or kenwright or elstone at all. i have a problem with your bashing on romelu. it's like you've driven cheap Ford vehicles your whole life and gotten by and done well but now you've upgraded to a nice Mercedes. and that whip is nice as hell! clean, fast, slick, looks good and performs great. out performs your Fords by light year, yet you're bitching because the neighbor has a Ferrari. FFS you've got a benz, enjoy it before the repo man comes and you're back to Ford's. Car analogy, well played Sibdane, Deacs and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 i've no problem critisizing the board or kenwright or elstone at all. i have a problem with your bashing on romelu. it's like you've driven cheap Ford vehicles your whole life and gotten by and done well but now you've upgraded to a nice Mercedes. and that whip is nice as hell! clean, fast, slick, looks good and performs great. out performs your Fords by light year, yet you're bitching because the neighbor has a Ferrari. FFS you've got a benz, enjoy it before the repo man comes and you're back to Ford's. Nah you see what happened is I sold £50 Grands worth of valuables in the knowledge that I wanted a top car. I was loaned my mates alfa Romeo and despite seeming like it was the business to start with it wasn't what I needed, had too many teething problems. I had my eye on a BMW m3 which was cheaper but somehow the order got ballsed up and now stuck with the alfa. I'm kinda hoping that when it comes back from its service it drives like the m3 but I'll have to hope. Apparently some people think I can get my money back on it but I'm not sure... Deacs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Messi has no right foot, can't head a ball and doesn't hold the ball up that well either. Now, where is the exit? Matt and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Messi has no right foot, can't head a ball and doesn't hold the ball up that well either.Now, where is the exit? Who left this f*cker in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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