Tom Davies

[Aidan]

13 hours ago, London Blue said:

If you think your not going to score then you probably won't. I don't think Tom thought he would score, so he passed instead. In my mind that's good decision making. It didn't come off but he thought about his options as opposed to putting into row z.

If you have a clear sight of goal & take a shot there are two eventualities, you score or you don't.

If you then pass the ball there are several more. The receiving player could score, but he could miss, he could be offside or the pass may not reach the target. You're effectively lowing your chances of scoring.

He should have had a shot, it's inexcusable and he will be disappointed in himself more than anyone else is.

[London Blue]

3 hours ago, Aidan said:

If you have a clear sight of goal & take a shot there are two eventualities, you score or you don't.

If you then pass the ball there are several more. The receiving player could score, but he could miss, he could be offside or the pass may not reach the target. You're effectively lowing your chances of scoring.

He should have had a shot, it's inexcusable and he will be disappointed in himself more than anyone else is.

In life if you believe you will succeed or fail you probably will. The mental aspect of the game, of life is so important. 

You list all the ways you may not score by crossing, but not for shooting. Tom could miss the target by shooting over the goal or wide if he goes for too much power, the keeper could charge out and narrow the angle making him miss, he could go for placement and send it wide or the shot is too weak.

I get it, I mean I would have liked him to shoot, I would probably of shot, but Tom thought it was best to cross and I understand the reasons he thought that. 

[London Blue]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

I think exactly the same as your first part LB. and that’s why people are saying he isn’t  good enough for this level.

To be a premier league football you need to believe in yourself and believe in your ability.

If Tom doesn’t believe he had a great chance of scoring there, then that’s surely an issue?

Someones mental outlook can be changed, you cant write someone off because of lack of confidence, you have to work with them to improve their confidence. When Tom played last season, and the season before he played well and with confidence in many of those games.

[Bailey]

On 05/10/2021 at 16:02, Cornish Steve said:

That Mina was ahead of the United players is irrelevant. Was he ahead of Davies? That wasn't at all clear in a split-second decision.

I think that was the most blindingly obvious thing!

On 05/10/2021 at 19:16, Cornish Steve said:

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

Here is the VAR angle - Slight difference!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftoday.in-24.com%2FNews%2F407281.html&psig=AOvVaw2NEWv3N3-n988MmjViuzy6&ust=1633699302446000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAYQjRxqFwoTCIDI4KeyuPMCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, London Blue said:

Someones mental outlook can be changed, you cant write someone off because of lack of confidence, you have to work with them to improve their confidence. When Tom played last season, and the season before he played well and with confidence in many of those games.

I am mixed about how well Tom played last season.

When he played with 11 men behind the ball and bordering the 18 yard box he did play well. He had lots of cover to paper over his limitations. As soon as we tried to play more expansively, he was horribly exposed for both Everton and England U23's.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

20 hours ago, London Blue said:

If you think your not going to score then you probably won't. I don't think Tom thought he would score, so he passed instead. In my mind that's good decision making. It didn't come off but he thought about his options as opposed to putting into row z.

So basically exactly what I’ve been saying, he bottled it and so made the wrong decision( it can’t possibly be good decision making if he can see Mina is offside )

For me I hope it was a case of him bottling it due to a lack of confidence because I can fully understand that and what’s more important that can be fixed but if it’s a case of he thought it through and decided that a pass was genuinely the best option then he is brain dead and we should get rid as soon as anyone puts actual money on the table

 

[London Blue]

24 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So basically exactly what I’ve been saying, he bottled it and so made the wrong decision( it can’t possibly be good decision making if he can see Mina is offside )

For me I hope it was a case of him bottling it due to a lack of confidence because I can fully understand that and what’s more important that can be fixed but if it’s a case of he thought it through and decided that a pass was genuinely the best option then he is brain dead and we should get rid as soon as anyone puts actual money on the table

 

Bottling it has very negative connotations, it implies a lack of courage, I don't think Tom lacks courage. I believe Tom has a lack of belief in his ability to score, therefore he decided to cross.

[Shukes]

5 hours ago, London Blue said:

Someones mental outlook can be changed, you cant write someone off because of lack of confidence, you have to work with them to improve their confidence. When Tom played last season, and the season before he played well and with confidence in many of those games.

I don’t disagree at all mate. 
But you need to be strong enough to accept mistakes…. I’ve learnt to be very good at it

Tom made a mistake. I’m not ending his career because of it, or saying get rid of him because of it. But it was a mistake and I’m 100% sure the manager and coaching staff have looked at the incident and made a lesson out of it.

[London Blue]

25 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I don’t disagree at all mate. 
But you need to be strong enough to accept mistakes…. I’ve learnt to be very good at it

Tom made a mistake. I’m not ending his career because of it, or saying get rid of him because of it. But it was a mistake and I’m 100% sure the manager and coaching staff have looked at the incident and made a lesson out of it.

To be fair it was a mistake and I bet Tom sees it that way too. Let's hope next time he had the confidence to shoot!

[Cornish Steve]

It will be interesting to see, when another player takes a shot and misses instead of making the pass, whether they'll be criticized for "being selfish". I haven't been back to check, but I'm sure we've laid into Richarlison for this before now. In a sense, a player can never win. If they don't score, we conclude they made a mistake.

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

It will be interesting to see, when another player takes a shot and misses instead of making the pass, whether they'll be criticized for "being selfish". I haven't been back to check, but I'm sure we've laid into Richarlison for this before now. In a sense, a player can never win. If they don't score, we conclude they made a mistake.

He played the percentage game saw the pass was on and made his decision, not the wrong decision unless of course you are one of a few who seems to believe he knew Mina was offside before the pass. 

[Sibdane]

12 minutes ago, Palfy said:

He played the percentage game saw the pass was on and made his decision, not the wrong decision unless of course you are one of a few who seems to believe he knew Mina was offside before the pass. 

It wasn't the right decision either.

I think the best way to look at is a bad decision but not necessarily a bad idea. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

12 minutes ago, Palfy said:

He played the percentage game saw the pass was on and made his decision, not the wrong decision unless of course you are one of a few who seems to believe he knew Mina was offside before the pass. 

If that had been the case I would not have a problem with it but the pass was never an option as Mina was very obviously in an offside position , if Davies couldn’t see that from the position he was in then it’s an even bigger problem

[Palfy]

Just now, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

If that had been the case I would not have a problem with it but the pass was never an option as Mina was very obviously in an offside position , if Davies couldn’t see that from the position he was in then it’s an even bigger problem

No the biggest problem would be as you believe he new he was offside and still played it, that would make him a coward and a complete arsehole, his celebration when it went in wasn’t the celebration of someone who new it would possibly be ruled out. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

33 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

It will be interesting to see, when another player takes a shot and misses instead of making the pass, whether they'll be criticized for "being selfish". I haven't been back to check, but I'm sure we've laid into Richarlison for this before now. In a sense, a player can never win. If they don't score, we conclude they made a mistake.

I think you are missing the point, had Mina been onside or even remotely close to being onside then fair enough the pass is an option, but he was clearly offside 

Davies couldn’t have had a better angle or more time to see that and therefore choosing to pass was a really poor decision

I

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

If that had been the case I would not have a problem with it but the pass was never an option as Mina was very obviously in an offside position , if Davies couldn’t see that from the position he was in then it’s an even bigger problem

In which case the linesman definitely needs binning because he didn't flag it, and that was his one and only job in that moment (and one he's handsomely paid for).

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I think you are missing the point, had Mina been onside or even remotely close to being onside then fair enough the pass is an option, but he was clearly offside 

Davies couldn’t have had a better angle or more time to see that and therefore choosing to pass was a really poor decision

I

It was inches and Davies was behind him not level, when you are in that position at ground level no aerial view and a player shouting for the ball, with split seconds to make a decision that’s what can happen. 

[Palfy]

20 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

It wasn't the right decision either.

I think the best way to look at is a bad decision but not necessarily a bad idea. 

With hindsight of course but not in real time, he made the right decision if you believe he didn’t think Mina was offside because the ball ended up in the net. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

No the biggest problem would be as you believe he new he was offside and still played it, that would make him a coward and a complete arsehole, his celebration when it went in wasn’t the celebration of someone who new it would possibly be ruled out. 

He certainly should have known, if he couldn’t spot it then really has got problems

I don’t believe he deliberately squandered the chance I just think he bottled it, or dress it up however you want , and this is the reason he picked the wrong option

If Mina was onside then yeah you could debate whether the pass or the shot was the better option but he was blatantly offside so I just can’t get my head around how anyone can defend his decision

Anyway that’s my last on it because we are just going around in circles

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

11 minutes ago, MikeO said:

In which case the linesman definitely needs binning because he didn't flag it, and that was his one and only job in that moment (and one he's handsomely paid for).

Ok this is my last on it!

Yes it was an awful bit of officiating and I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised if the linesman finds he hasn’t got a game in the next set of Premier League fixtures, not the first time and certainly won’t be the last time a linesman has been hopelessly inept

I would also point out the definition for when VAR can get involved , when there has been a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR

Did you yourself not think immediately that it was offside?

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Ok this is my last on it

 I’m sure I seen that somewhere earlier

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

 I’m sure I seen that somewhere earlier

[MikeO]

10 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Did you yourself not think immediately that it was offside?

I wasn't watching by then, tight finishes I tend to nip into the kitchen and rely on the noises coming from my lad in the next room to know what's happening, my heart can't take it

[plaidharper]

Sure is a lot of discussion about a split second decision from a squad player instead of focusing on the fact that we played well against Man U. If Tom could do all the things demanded of him in this thread he certainly would not be a 3rd stringer on one of our lowest wages (which he is). Folks trying to wring water from a stone.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

16 hours ago, plaidharper said:

Sure is a lot of discussion about a split second decision from a squad player instead of focusing on the fact that we played well against Man U. If Tom could do all the things demanded of him in this thread he certainly would not be a 3rd stringer on one of our lowest wages (which he is). Folks trying to wring water from a stone.

This came so close to reeling me back in !

[Matt]

17 hours ago, plaidharper said:

Sure is a lot of discussion about a split second decision from a squad player instead of focusing on the fact that we played well against Man U. If Tom could do all the things demanded of him in this thread he certainly would not be a 3rd stringer on one of our lowest wages (which he is). Folks trying to wring water from a stone.

You should know better than to bring common sense round these parts

 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

This came so close to reeling me back in !

Now you sure this is your last on it

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

On 08/10/2021 at 15:39, plaidharper said:

Sure is a lot of discussion about a split second decision from a squad player instead of focusing on the fact that we played well against Man U. If Tom could do all the things demanded of him in this thread he certainly would not be a 3rd stringer on one of our lowest wages (which he is). Folks trying to wring water from a stone.

 

13 hours ago, Matt said:

You should know better than to bring common sense round these parts

 

 

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

Now you sure this is your last on it

Fuck it I’m back in!

It was anything but a split second decision. He had all the time in the world to weigh up his options, probably  too much time if truth be told, and I don’t think it’s asking too much of a professional footballer to know the offside rule or to be able to take a shot at goal from ten yards out when clean through against the keeper

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Fuck it I’m back in!

[Palfy]

I don’t believe he’s a player low on confidence far from it, he has vehemently believed in his ability and that he should be in the 1st team, twice in the last couple of years he has refused any talk of being sold or going out on loan, because his own self believe in his own ability is that strong, what evidence do you have that leads you to believing he is low in confidence. He may not be good enough but he definitely doesn’t lack confidence.