Tom Davies

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I definitely think it is a confidence issue. I don't dislike the thought of passing in that situation as such, but it was clear to every man and his dog that Mina was well ahead of the Utd players and Davies had a great angle for the shot.

It's a shame because it would have been great for him to have scored and for us to get the win over United, but it is certainly not something I would lay into him for. I bet he hits it next time.

That Mina was ahead of the United players is irrelevant. Was he ahead of Davies? That wasn't at all clear in a split-second decision.

[Bill]

Should have hit it, it was a similar position to Townsend's goal but he bottled it.  I doubt if any other player in the same position would have passed, there wasn't a defender anywhere near him and the simple shot was on.

[Btay]

3 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Whilst the offside rule may well not apply to some of the Sky 6 alas we have to play by the rules, and it was a clear offside as soon as he passed it forward. He may as well have just picked the ball up and handed it to the keeper 

It wasn’t clear because it was close enough to go to VAR for a review so that’s harsh. 

Let’s not kid ourselves here, if Davies shoots and the keeper pulls off a worldie save - everyone would jump down Davies throat about not passing.

Its unlucky and a fine margin. Let’s move on.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, Btay said:

It wasn’t clear because it was close enough to go to VAR for a review so that’s harsh. 

Let’s not kid ourselves here, if Davies shoots and the keeper pulls off a worldie save - everyone would jump down Davies throat about not passing.

Its unlucky and a fine margin. Let’s move on.

It’s absolutely laughable that it went to VAR, did you think even for one split second that the goal would stand?

You are probably right that he would have got stick if he had shot and missed because it was an absolute sitter, and he probably knew that as well which is why he completely bottled it, but at least if he had shot there was a chance of scoring . Passing the ball forward meant that there could only ever be one outcome

It probably didn’t help him that he had all the time in the world to think about what he was going to do because otherwise he probably would have instinctively taken the shot

For me he he bottled it and cost us two points , next game it could be DCL missing a pen or Pickford letting one slip through his legs, shit happens and yeah we move on

Im not trying to use this to get on Davies back , my point is that it screamed of a player very low on confidence and my point is I think he needs to go out on loan to try and get enough regular game time so that he can get his career back on track and rebuild his confidence

 

[Cornish Steve]

55 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It’s absolutely laughable that it went to VAR, did you think even for one split second that the goal would stand?

You are probably right that he would have got stick if he had shot and missed because it was an absolute sitter, and he probably knew that as well which is why he completely bottled it, but at least if he had shot there was a chance of scoring . Passing the ball forward meant that there could only ever be one outcome

It probably didn’t help him that he had all the time in the world to think about what he was going to do because otherwise he probably would have instinctively taken the shot

For me he he bottled it and cost us two points , next game it could be DCL missing a pen or Pickford letting one slip through his legs, shit happens and yeah we move on

Im not trying to use this to get on Davies back , my point is that it screamed of a player very low on confidence and my point is I think he needs to go out on loan to try and get enough regular game time so that he can get his career back on track and rebuild his confidence

 

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

30 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

We will just have to agree to disagree, to me that is very clearly offside and Benitez is hardly going to come out and slaughter him in the press is he?

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

We will just have to agree to disagree, to me that is very clearly offside and Benitez is hardly going to come out and slaughter him in the press is he?

You're right: He would not criticize him publicly (unlike some of our former managers). Nonetheless, it was close. In the picture, you can see the linesman was right there, and I don't believe he raised his flag.

[Cornish Steve]

The other question I would ask after looking at this picture is: Where is our centre forward?

[Aidan]

Definitely a confidence issue. Doesn't score enough and that's in his head. He's not very good at finishing, or creating chances. Come to think of it I'm not really sure what he is good at.

[London Blue]

21 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Definitely a confidence issue. Doesn't score enough and that's in his head. He's not very good at finishing, or creating chances. Come to think of it I'm not really sure what he is good at.

Tackling, pressing, passing, and stamina, plus he loves the club.

[Aidan]

13 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Tackling, pressing, passing, and stamina, plus he loves the club.

I don't think he is though.

I think he's good at trying. I don't think any of his individual qualities other than his work rate suffice at this level. Loving the club isn't a free pass to accept lack of quality. I like Davies as a person, but he's not good enough if we want to progress as a club.

[Bill]

3 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

No it's not. It was a matter of just an inch or so. Again, the position of United players is irrelevant: Was Mina ahead of Davies? That was not at all obvious. To quote Benitez: "He was unlucky it was just some centimetres offside." It all depended on where Mina was in his stride and how much he was leaning forward.

PS - I found a picture of the pass and added a white line to show just how close this decision actually was.

That picture shows even more that he should have took a shot, the balls under control and there's nobody anywhere near him.  Sorry Tom but you chickened out mate.

[London Blue]

55 minutes ago, Aidan said:

I don't think he is though.

I think he's good at trying. I don't think any of his individual qualities other than his work rate suffice at this level. Loving the club isn't a free pass to accept lack of quality. I like Davies as a person, but he's not good enough if we want to progress as a club.

His passing stats, duels won and interceptions were pretty good last couple of seasons, not as good as Alan or Doucoure, but pretty good. This is a squad game and he is a good squad player. 

Plus at 23 years old he is young enough to be coached and improved by Benitez. 

If we sell him then we have to replace him, Longstaff amy be an option, but we will have to see.

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

That picture shows even more that he should have took a shot, the balls under control and there's nobody anywhere near him.  Sorry Tom but you chickened out mate.

There's an inch or so in it looking at their feet; Tom takes on the shot and it's maybe 50/50 it goes in, if Mina was two inches back it's 95/5 a goal, I'll not be blaming Tom for taking those odds.

[Btay]

16 minutes ago, MikeO said:

There's an inch or so in it looking at their feet; Tom takes on the shot and it's maybe 50/50 it goes in, if Mina was two inches back it's 95/5 a goal, I'll not be blaming Tom for taking those odds.

This is it.

We have so many chances where we could square it for a easier chance but our players don’t even look.

If Mina isn’t there, Tom takes on the shot no doubt. At least he is having a look around before he makes decisions. 

[Shukes]

Did anyone actually think k it was a goal at first glance? I stayed sat down and said it’s offside. It seemed clear to as day to me.

Edged up as Davies got the ball in expectation, then as he passed it I groaned and said offside…. Before the ball even reached Mina.

[c1982]

I thought it was clear as day offside so didn’t celebrate initially - then thought ‘hang on’ when Yerry did his dance routine but it wasn’t a close decision ultimately. Davies should have… Mina should have… both easy to say sat in front of the tv from the comfort of my sofa. 

[Hafnia]

Do I think a player with more confidence in their finishing takes the shot? Yes.

Did Tom bottle it? Yes 

Was it a poor decision?  Not as outrageous as people are making it to be, if they got it right it would be a great goal. Degea was positioned perfectly to be fair to him, Tom had given him the best angle to save with his first touch. 

[Bill]

I can't believe what I'm seeing and hearing, all agreeing what Tom did !!.  There's not one player on the pitch who wouldn't have taken the shot but they are all wrong because Tom didn't take the shot.

Even all the posters who are siding with Davies would have taken the shot if they they had found themselves in that position. 

I'm with Shukes and c1982 on this, it was so obviously offside as soon as he passed it I stayed rooted in my seat knowing it wasn't going to be given.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

16 hours ago, London Blue said:

Tackling, pressing, passing, and stamina, plus he loves the club.

I’ve loved the club a lot longer than Tom and spent a lot more money following them, so can I expect to be in the starting XI against West Ham?

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

14 hours ago, MikeO said:

There's an inch or so in it looking at their feet; Tom takes on the shot and it's maybe 50/50 it goes in, if Mina was two inches back it's 95/5 a goal, I'll not be blaming Tom for taking those odds.

Sticking with this theme 

IF Tom hits a shot into the top corner it’s 99.5/0.5 it goes in and they are better than your 95/5 odds !

Can we not stick to the facts though, Mina was not 2 inches back ( I think he would still be offside had he been) and was clearly offside which makes the pass a really poor decision

 

 

[London Blue]

25 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’ve loved the club a lot longer than Tom and spent a lot more money following them, so can I expect to be in the starting XI against West Ham?

 

If you can play football as well as him, then yes. But you can't.   We can debate his merits as a footballer, but the fact Tom is a fan is a GOOD THING,  not something to be ridiculed.

[Palfy]

57 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’ve loved the club a lot longer than Tom and spent a lot more money following them, so can I expect to be in the starting XI against West Ham?

 

If it was the mid 70s and you were the real Duncan then you would definitely start, unfortunately it’s not the 70s and you’re not the real Duncan Mckenzie so don’t pack your boots and pads but keep supporting and spending your money

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

If it was the mid 70s and you were the real Duncan then you would definitely start, unfortunately it’s not the 70s and you’re not the real Duncan Mckenzie so don’t pack your boots and pads but keep supporting and spending your money

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I’m trying ( and failing ) to get my head around why anyone would defend his decision to pass the ball in that scenario

For those that are , given all the time and space he had and given he was looking right across the line, do you think he should have been able to recognise the fact that Mina was offside?

 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’m trying ( and failing ) to get my head around why anyone would defend his decision to pass the ball in that scenario

For those that are , given all the time and space he had and given he was looking right across the line, do you think he should have been able to recognise the fact that Mina was offside?

 

If you think your not going to score then you probably won't. I don't think Tom thought he would score, so he passed instead. In my mind that's good decision making. It didn't come off but he thought about his options as opposed to putting into row z.

[Hf,Hr,Hwamp..PR]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I’m trying ( and failing ) to get my head around why anyone would defend his decision to pass the ball in that scenario

For those that are , given all the time and space he had and given he was looking right across the line, do you think he should have been able to recognise the fact that Mina was offside?

 

I screamed SHOOT after his first touch and didn't celebrate as instantly thought offside. Not defending Tom but if that was me when I was playing I would have put if across 6 yard box hoping for far corner, but that's because I'm left footed and from my perspective better to simply square it, than lash at it with my very weak right and 50/50 if I even connect, I know Tom's right footed but his game is not about scoring and after QPR he's bound to be at the very least perplexed, not playing with a clear head so he played the "safe" option, if Yerry was a size 7 boot instead of 17 would have been the right decision, think someone said above he was damned whatever he did unless he scored.

I think if his mind is clear and relaxed he has the shot across keeper but even then if Yerry taps in after keeper saves still offside. I would rather he had just swung at it and hoped for the best, would have won a lot of peoples praise, but in that moment he may have thought I'm gonna get slaughtered if I miss, simple square pass easy goal, is Yerry onside? it's tight! too late! I've passed.

I think from Toms view he doesn't know if Yerrys on or off when he plays it.

So he made the wrong decision, (as I do probably daily), just like all the other 21 players did at some point in the match, it's just because this decision possibly cost us 2 points that it matters, so my sympathy for Tom is not because of the decision, but how the decision effects him going forward, am fairly sure Rafa would have said something along the lines of next time you'll just shoot don't worry if you miss.

[Cornish Steve]

12 hours ago, Shukes said:

Did anyone actually think k it was a goal at first glance? I stayed sat down and said it’s offside. It seemed clear to as day to me.

Edged up as Davies got the ball in expectation, then as he passed it I groaned and said offside…. Before the ball even reached Mina.

I'm guessing because you were looking at the United players. If Mina was three inches further back, you'd have still thought at first blush he was offside, but he wouldn't have been.

[Shukes]

11 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

I'm guessing because you were looking at the United players. If Mina was three inches further back, you'd have still thought at first blush he was offside, but he wouldn't have been.

No I was watching Tom mate. 
The moment he passed I could already see Mina was in front of him.

Tomes view would have been in front of him…. And he would have saw Mina’s shirt colour…. And no red in front of him.

[Shukes]

12 hours ago, London Blue said:

If you think your not going to score then you probably won't. I don't think Tom thought he would score, so he passed instead. In my mind that's good decision making. It didn't come off but he thought about his options as opposed to putting into row z.

I think exactly the same as your first part LB. and that’s why people are saying he isn’t  good enough for this level.

To be a premier league football you need to believe in yourself and believe in your ability.

If Tom doesn’t believe he had a great chance of scoring there, then that’s surely an issue?