Ronald Koeman

[Bailey]

3 minutes ago, Lowensda said:

 

Martinez' home record in his last season is better than Koemans away record, probably since he came to the club.

[Shukes]

24 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

again HE IS INJURED.  there is no getting back  regardless of firing/hiring/new manager Ross will be out til Christmas.  FFS

Err you know what I meant seriously.....didn't you?

haha maybe you didn't haha!

[Hafnia]

Interesting that he refused to criticise the players.... yet he spent match after match slaying Barkley last year. 

[Romey 1878]

My faith is seriously being tested. 

So many problems with this team. We've spent a shit load of money this summer on some very good players but at the same time our recruitment has been shambolic. A lot of them just don't fit into the system Koeman wants to play. We've brought in three number 10s, when one or two would've been right. Brought no width in. Brought no pace in. 

Change the system to suit the players that are here or stop trying to squeeze every fucker into the team regardless of whether they're suitable for a position. 

Give players a run in the side. Have a settled team. If players have a bad game, fuck it, keep playing them for a few games so that they can find a rhythm.

 

[memmaclub2]

Looking at his other jobs he has only done well in Holland and at either PSV or Feynord. He resigned from Benfica and Ajax and was sacked from AZ (After a title winning season) and valencia. All that said I understand you could quote a record of some more succesful manager. But the reality is when we have a rich backer who boasts he is bringing the good times back he should be aiming higher than Koeman. I don't think Koeman is a special manager.

[Shukes]

22 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I think we're talking about getting Ross back on board mentally/emotionally rather than sticking a crocked lad on the pitch Mark.

Guarantee he's as pig-sick as the rest of us fans after the last couple of games.

Your so much better than me. I literally laughed my ass off at his response. 

I need to learn to step back and think about people's emotional sanity before o respond on my initial thoughts hahaha!

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Your so much better than me. I literally laughed my ass off at his response. 

I need to learn to step back and think about people's emotional sanity before o respond on my initial thoughts hahaha!

Comes with age Shukes mate, I'll swap if you like.

[London Blue]

2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

My faith is seriously being tested. 

So many problems with this team. We've spent a shit load of money this summer on some very good players but at the same time our recruitment has been shambolic. A lot of them just don't fit into the system Koeman wants to play. We've brought in three number 10s, when one or two would've been right. Brought no width in. Brought no pace in. 

Change the system to suit the players that are here or stop trying to squeeze every fucker into the team regardless of whether they're suitable for a position. 

Give players a run in the side. Have a settled team. If players have a bad game, fuck it, keep playing them for a few games so that they can find a rhythm.

 

This for me. 

Go back to more of the team of last year with Davies, Morgan OR Gana and Klaassen in Midfield more forward running and energy from Davies

Play Sandro and DCL up front with Siggy / Vlasic behind. 

Give the team a run to get used to each other.

Drop Rooney, he is all over the pitch and that leaves a lack of options in attack when he has been playing as left back!

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, London Blue said:

This for me. 

Go back to more of the team of last year with Davies, Morgan OR Gana and Klaassen in Midfield more forward running and energy from Davies

Play Sandro and DCL up front with Siggy / Vlasic behind. 

Give the team a run to get used to each other.

Drop Rooney, he is all over the pitch and that leaves a lack of options in attack when he has been playing as left back!

The fact that pretty much everyone can come up with a plan of action is quite worrying tbh. It shows that it's not fancy changes that need to be made, these are small and obvious things. Koeman is either too blind or too stubborn to do any of it. 

[London Blue]

Just now, Romey 1878 said:

The fact that pretty much everyone can come up with a plan of action is quite worrying tbh. It shows that it's not fancy changes that need to be made, these are small and obvious things. Koeman is either too blind or too stubborn to do any of it. 

Like a kid on Boxing Day with too many presents, he does know what to play with. Once he knows his team, and I agree he better bloody figure it out soon we will be fine.

[Newty82]

Well this isn't going quite to plan, is it?! This could be quite a long post, so I apologise in advance. I've been holding off on this one for a few weeks...I'm not very good at saying things in a few words when loads of gibberish can do the job!!!

Firstly, Koeman does not yet deserve the big sack. It would be silly to do so and make no sense. However, as it stands, he does deserve every bit of criticism that comes his way.

He has to stand up and be accountable here. I'm not having any excuses around not getting a striker, a left back etc. He has been fully backed by the club in his transfers. So, any hint of an excuse will only make him look weak in my eyes.

We have bought in a number of good quality players. Individually, they are not a problem. Collectively, they well and truly need to bond as a team. But they can't. Because the team is changing far too much. Take Keane for example, he is having to get used to inter changing right back partners. Aswell as getting used to a new centre back partner. How can a fluid footballing relationship be built in such circumstances? It's the same scenario for the forward line up. That's just looking at partnerships of 2 or 3 people, never mind the full team.

We can't ping decent passes together because the players don't know enough about each other's movements etc. And they can't get to know that because the partnerships keep changing.

Yes, there are too many new players. Not being helped by the shape and positions being changed each game. Vlasic is a prime example. Another new player...hoofed straight into the starting 11...alongside another load of new players who are already struggling to form fluid footballing relationships.

Koeman has ended up being like a fat kid in a cake shop with too much pocket money. He's just waxed the lot and gulped it down. Now he's got irritable bowels.

When we were buying these players, I thought the plan would be to play high energy, high pressing, fast paced passing football. I thought that's why we were going for players such as Klaassen, Sandro, Sigurdsson and Rooney...all high energy, run forever type players. Not individually pacey but with enough energy and talent to move the ball quickly. I actually thought that we had deliberately not gone for a 'big number 9', that is until he started to mention the need for one with a week or 2 left of the window! I thought there was a plan with these players, there probably was and still is, but I can't help but feel that it's being lost in translation somewhere.

A bigger concern for me is how shakey we have gone at the back. We know Koeman builds solid teams, strong at the back. But even that's gone at the moment. A lot of pressure is being put on the defence because we lose the ball so easily up top. The ball is coming back at us too quickly and it's a constant battle for those lads at the back.

Now, of course, the players confidence will be shattered. Koeman has to earn his stripes now...asap. I don't care how much he gets paid (which is a relative amount for our league finish by the way)...if he's paid £1million or £20million...his job is the same and he needs to use all his resources to get this sorted now before the rot really kicks in.

It's up to Koeman. His job is in his hands. I still support him and urge him to do the job. I don't know if he's the man to take us up to that elusive level but I certainly think he can do better than this. The start has been really tough, maybe unlucky with fixtures, but we should be seeing more than this performance wise.

One thing for sure, I no longer think the club will just accept less than what is expected. The days of just shrugging our shoulders as 'plucky old Everton' are gone. I've no doubt that if Moshiri and Co see fit, he'll be gone.

Could say more but my eyes are sore...think I've had my contacts in too long today!!!

[c1982]

After Man U on Sunday, we've got a run of games before away to Liverpool where they should all be winnable - we won't win them all but this period will be telling.

I'm not excusing the start we've made but it was always going to be a struggle to get many points on the board. The next few weeks are critical for us and Koeman's future.

[Guest]

Looking on tonight's performance, I think it has gone too far. 

I honestly think we have regressed as a team under Koeman. I know stats will be thrown back at me regarding defensive frailties being sorted but actual 90 minutes, I don't think I've seen a more boring side this season. We can't get any shots off in a game.

Delefaeo, Barkley, mirallas... The list goes on. You can't get into confrontation with this many players and still think that there will be harmony. This is only picking out the obvious players. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more.

I can only see a total waste of money being spent so far. If every supporter states we need a focal point and more pace in the side, how on earth has this not been rectified.

The only bright spark tonight was Sandro. Seen something tonight that if he has better players around him, he will flourish.

All in all I will try to get behind our manager but I'm feeling the support slipping away match by match. I honestly think a large chunk of championship sides could easily beat us at the minute.

[Quinn31]

2 minutes ago, c1982 said:

After Man U on Sunday, we've got a run of games before away to Liverpool where they should all be winnable - we won't win them all but this period will be telling.

I'm not excusing the start we've made but it was always going to be a struggle to get many points on the board. The next few weeks are critical for us and Koeman's future.

This. This will allow us to impose a style and develop chemistry within the team since we are playing what should be inferior teams. It's near impossible to gel/gain chemistry or a style of play against the big dogs in the league who can control possession and spend most of the game against us attacking.

If after a run against Brighton, Bournemouth, Sunderland, Burnley, Apollon, we haven't begun to gel, then I will seriously begin to worry and potentially weigh a managerial change.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Quinn31 said:

This. This will allow us to impose a style and develop chemistry within the team since we are playing what should be inferior teams. It's near impossible to gel/gain chemistry or a style of play against the big dogs in the league who can control possession and spend most of the game against us attacking.

If after a run against Brighton, Bournemouth, Sunderland, Burnley, Apollon, we haven't begun to gel, then I will seriously begin to worry and potentially weigh a managerial change.

You gain chemistry and gel in training. You don't do it just on match day. Can't blame playing top six sides. Every game will be hard this year for different reasons.

[Quinn31]

Just now, yamar said:

You gain chemistry and gel in training. You don't do it just on match day. Can't blame playing top six sides. Every game will be hard this year for different reasons.

Agree to disagree here mate. Training is an important part of it, but I don't think anything matches a competitive fixture. 

[c1982]

3 minutes ago, yamar said:

You gain chemistry and gel in training. You don't do it just on match day. Can't blame playing top six sides. Every game will be hard this year for different reasons.

Fair point but the chemistry and cohesion comes easier when players are playing with confidence - when we're winning. This obviously comes easier against 'lesser' teams. We need a turning point now - anything to bring a feel good factor back - this is what will help us gel.

[Newty82]

My concern about the upcoming 'easier' fixtures is that if we keep changing the formation, players and positions that said players play, then the gelling and understanding isn't going to happen as it would if we played each game with minimal changes.

[Bailey]

If we play like we have been we will get beaten by most sides not just top 6. Your might not get results against the big boys but the performance should be there. This cohesion stuff is bollocks. We had a preseason and countless training sessions. A good manager with a good system gets his players to gel quickly. Players can come in and out but they know their jobs. Vlasic has an excuse but the rest dont. 

 

[rubecula]

I suspect he will be out the door before January if things do not change dramatically

 

[London Blue]

41 minutes ago, rubecula said:

I suspect he will be out the door before January if things do not change dramatically

 

I believe he will turn it round before then, he is a winner and has experience.

But if he does not, who do you replace him with, Unsworth? 

There are not that many quality managers out there who are not tied down to a club.

[Cornish Steve]

For what they're worth, a few observations from me.

1) As we look at areas of the team, the only bright spark right now is goalkeeping. That's a start! Let's move forward from there.

2) Defence: This is Koeman's main strength - building a strong defence. What's gone wrong? Keane is new and Martina is new. Jags and Williams have been alternated too much. There's no consistency. Personally, I still prefer Holgate over Martina, but in the end we need consistency. Players aren't picking up their man, we're leaving players unmarked, and that's because the defenders aren't used to playing alongside one another. On top of that, we're switching from 4 to 3 and then 4. From now until Christmas, can we stop trying to be clever and just get the basics right with a consistent 4 at the back? Let them gel. Let them learn to trust each other. Let them learn each other's style of play.

3) Up front: We're really missing Lukaku, but that would be OK if we adopted a style of play that was faster, wider, and higher up the field. Our forward line need the opportunity to penetrate without being worried about leaving gaps in midfield. Push up, for goodness sake. Let our faster youngsters control the pace. Play DC-L and Sandro together, and Vlasic, too. To date, no one but Rooney has scored in the league, and that needs to change. Let the youngsters score, and their confidence will build. They'll do what younger players always do: take risks, make mistakes, but have moments of unexpected brilliance. Give them the chance to play together consistently.

4) Mid-field: This is our main problem. Games are won and lost in the middle of the park. This should be an engine, a hive of creativity, of probing and incisive forward passes, of forcing our opponents to second-guess and wonder. This is where we need a general, someone who commands respect and fills the team with energy and confidence. This is where we are sorely sorely lacking. How do we fix it? Personally, when they're available, I'd bring back Barkley and McCarthy and add Besic - a steely core that can unleash Barkley's creativity.

5) What not to do: Please let's not pick teams based on how much money was spent on a player, how much salary they earn, or because they were just brought in. Who cares? New recruits are not automatically better than old hands. Right now, I'd choose McCarthy any day over Schneiderlin. Why? Because McCarthy works hard and pushes forward. Schneiderlin seems to have lost his mojo, more guilty than anyone of passing for passing's sake. Take out Gueye and Sigurdsson and Klaassen until they prove to us all they deserve to be wearing blue. Rooney, sadly, is revealing he's a 'has been', so let's accept the fact and use him tactically and not as a starter.

6) Look to the future: At moments like this, since we're building anyway, trust more the youngsters - if not as starters then at least to the bench and as subs. Learn to trust Holgate and Kenny and Davies and Vlasic and DC-L and Lookman. I don't care if some are 21 or younger: Build a legacy for the future. What do we have to lose? They can't do any worse than those who amble around with little desire collecting a fat paycheck. The youngsters will want to prove their worth. Can we bring back Dowell as another potential spark in the team?

Koeman has a track record of having a bad first half and good second half of the season. Despite my moaning about him, he deserves until the new year at least - although we should rethink that if we spend a month in relegation territory. He had a terrible run in the first half of last season, but things brightened up in January and February - before tailing off due to a complete lack of desire all around. But please, let's see some emotion! Less sitting quietly on the sidelines. Less trying to be Mr Professor quietly analyzing games. Less time spent away from Merseyside or on vacation at important times. Show your commitment, Mr. Koeman. Show your total hatred of losing, Mr. Koeman. Scream and yell and demonstrate some passion. Lead by example. Why should the team hate losing if you don't?

We're going to get slammed at Old Trafford, so I've already accepted that fact - even though our record there in the last 3-4 years isn't that bad. We're not going to survive the group stage of the Europa: so be it. But if we lose to Burnley or Bournemouth or away to Brighton, Koeman will really start to lose the fans and the players. That will become a spiral with an inevitable ending. Winning against teams like Sunderland won't count. For me, the critical game will be against Arsenal. After playing and hopefully beating teams that should finish below us, we really must expect to beat Arsenal. If we play that game with a defeatist attitude and play to win on the break, that will prove we are gutless and have no sense of vision.

Sorry for so many random thoughts in one post.

[Hafnia]

It makes the whole niasse locker saga seen all the more significant.

The man is a bit of a bully. 

Barkley was getting grief most weeks in the media - needlessly I may add.  Yet the last few games we have stunk the gaff out and all players get off score free?

I think he's lost the dressing room. 

 

Buying Rooney could be his undoing.... he aint gonna tolerate this shit. 

 

 

[Newty82]

3 minutes ago, hafnia said:

It makes the whole niasse locker saga seen all the more significant.

The man is a bit of a bully. 

Barkley was getting grief most weeks in the media - needlessly I may add.  Yet the last few games we have stunk the gaff out and all players get off score free?

I think he's lost the dressing room. 

 

Buying Rooney could be his undoing.... he aint gonna tolerate this shit. 

 

 

He's criticised the team as a whole previously, and last night apologised and blamed himself.

That's not a bad thing is it? At least he is showing recognition that it's not right or good enough and is questioning himself.

[Matt]

13 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

You did Matt I echoed that to a lesser extent pre season as it was a, slight worry for me but I never thought in a million years we would be this shit ?

Neither did I but I'm not at all surprised. It's made me numb rather than angry, makes me not give a shit

[markjazzbassist]

if you notice there is a bar next to this thread now that says "Ignored".  I'm guessing more than a few people have put it on Ignore LOL.  Used to be "Hot Thread" or something, how quickly it changes 

[Peter H]

If we do not get most of the points from the winnable games coming up then he should get the boot. 

We knew that the start of the season would be rough looking at the fixtures but we should not have lost last night!

[chalkpie]

If you watch basically ANY other team at the moment, there are at least one or two aspects that you can say "OK, they at least do X well, or wow, they are pretty adept at Y". When you watch us, I honestly can't think of ONE aspect of our playing that I think we are excelling at, and that is just sad. If you would have told me that I would be feeling this way in the summer when the excitement was running high with all of the new signings, I'd say you were huffing too much paint and BBQ sauce. But its fuckin true. And unless a miracle comes blasting through Rooney's asshole on Sunday, we ain't winning that match. Its going to come down to damage control and trying to minimize the amount of embarrassment.  Its actually a good thing were not at Goodison on Sunday in a way. 

[Chach]

16 hours ago, hafnia said:

It makes the whole niasse locker saga seen all the more significant.

The man is a bit of a bully. 

Barkley was getting grief most weeks in the media - needlessly I may add.  Yet the last few games we have stunk the gaff out and all players get off score free?

I think he's lost the dressing room. 

The handling of Barkley looks 100 times worse under the microscope of recent results, people keep talking about Rom but even if he was here who would be passing him the ball? 86 key passes last season top 5 in the league, will be another slap in the face when he leaves and excels in a better team.

/saltyaf

[Elston Gunnn]

We're now looking at 5 matches in 15 days.  Even a loss Sunday wil be grudgingly acceptable to most on TT, so long as it's noticeably less embarrassing than our recent 3-goal horrors.

The real test comes in the 4 matches (in 12 days) after ManU.  All 4 are at Goodison, against mediocre opponents.  Anything other than 4 wins - or at worst 3 wins and a draw - starting with Sunderland, and Koeman will be in deep trouble.

The team's performance against Sunderland will arguably be more important than what happens at Old Trafford.  As pathetic as that is.