Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[nogs]

8 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Moshiri has a lot of parallels with Lerner at villa. 

Both investing heavily in the club... albeit to managers who squandered it. 

Moshiri to be fair recruited managers and DoFwho had proven themselves. He backed them.... imagine the wrong manager under kenwright and our limited cash availability??? Relegation for certain.  That is why moyes for such a long well paid gig for treatng water in the also rans. 

 

I would sooner be in a position where a chairman was hiring backing and firing rather than sticking elwith someone who gets us to the comfort of 7th place on a shoestring for 10 years. At least we are having A go. 

Under Moyes, then that first season under Martinez, we were the club that had the potential to make the big 6 a big 7. Yeah we didn't win a trophy, but neither have Spurs in recent years, bar one League Cup a decade ago. 

We're currently a long way off that - in terms of the playing squad, maybe two, even three years off. We've gone backwards. Yes money has been spent, but it's hardly worthwhile 'having a go' if it ends in bottom half finishes with Sam fucking Allardyce in charge. 

[nogs]

46 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

On paper, Steve Walsh and Ronald Koeman were very good hires - it's the lack of structure and plan that both were given and the subsequent mess created that was a problem.

The only thing that Moshiri has clearly done wrong is potentially a panic sacking of Koeman and the subsequent lack of plan that allowed us to go a month before hiring a new manager, which was a panic hire and clearly not the man to lead this club forward.

Aren't the manager and DoF paid millions to come up with a structure and plan? And have you forgotten how dreadful we were under Koeman? This is his squad that's playing the filth we're having to put up with at the moment. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Moshiri has a lot of parallels with Lerner at villa. 
Both investing heavily in the club... albeit to managers who squandered it. 
Moshiri to be fair recruited managers and DoFwho had proven themselves. He backed them.... imagine the wrong manager under kenwright and our limited cash availability??? Relegation for certain.  That is why moyes got such a long - well paid gig for treating  water in the also rans. 
 
I would sooner be in a position where a chairman was hiring backing and firing rather than sticking with someone who gets us to the comfort of 7th place on a shoestring for 10 years. At least we are having a go. 
 
We just look completely invaded by the wrong people at the moment. We need Everton back. 

Compared to this shite I would love to go back to the days when Moyes was treating water

[Quinn31]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Aren't the manager and DoF paid millions to come up with a structure and plan? And have you forgotten how dreadful we were under Koeman? This is his squad that's playing the filth we're having to put up with at the moment. 

You missed the part where I used the past tense and used the term "on paper".

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Under Moyes, then that first season under Martinez, we were the club that had the potential to make the big 6 a big 7. Yeah we didn't win a trophy, but neither have Spurs in recent years, bar one League Cup a decade ago. 

We're currently a long way off that - in terms of the playing squad, maybe two, even three years off. We've gone backwards. Yes money has been spent, but it's hardly worthwhile 'having a go' if it ends in bottom half finishes with Sam fucking Allardyce in charge. 

City under mansour had a few iffy years.  Wrong appointments like mark Hughes.... wasted money on players.

It's a quick lesson for moshiri and one I hope he learns.

I would sooner be going through this nonsense now with a view to learning how not to spend money rather than the days of kenwright and moyes wishing we could spend money.  

I always said... I wanted moyes to be held accountable for having a target of top 4 to attain with money to spend rather than just balancing books and finishing 6th or whatever. 

Good things will happen. They should do as we are hopefully learning the hard lessons. 

[rubecula]

22 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

 

Only just seen this but it’s spot on

 

 

fucking hell where are my meds  I agree with Gerrard

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sam-allardyce-evertons-version-liverpool-14372006

[barryj]

23 hours ago, Bailey said:

This is the saddest thing. I have never seen Everton fans so apathetic. 

When things went tits up under Martinez at least people were angry. 

Koeman/Walsh/Allardyce have ripped the soul out of this club and it has all started since we became able to pay like the big boys. Mercenary managers with no real philosophy, signing mercenary players who don't give a shit. 

I would happily go back to not having a pot to piss in as long as the soul of this club remained (and we didn' go under!). 

 

I got frustrated with Martinez mainly due to his inability to change the tactics during a game. However, credit where credit was due Everton played some of the nicest, flair football I’d seen in decades. Right now I feel numb and this is the worse season in the 30+ years of supporting this great club. People may say that’s an overreaction based on Mike Walker and the like facing relegation but I didn’t have the expectation, the club didn’t have the clout and supposed talent we have now. Disgrace on so many levels, but Allardyce is the cherry on top of this big mess and HAS to go (although he should never of been appointed in the first place).

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

You missed the part where I used the past tense and used the term "on paper".

What's that got to do with disagreeing that sacking Koeman was a mistake? And you definitely used the present tense there. 

[nogs]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

City under mansour had a few iffy years.  Wrong appointments like mark Hughes.... wasted money on players.

It's a quick lesson for moshiri and one I hope he learns.

I would sooner be going through this nonsense now with a view to learning how not to spend money rather than the days of kenwright and moyes wishing we could spend money.  

I always said... I wanted moyes to be held accountable for having a target of top 4 to attain with money to spend rather than just balancing books and finishing 6th or whatever. 

Good things will happen. They should do as we are hopefully learning the hard lessons. 

Hope you're right

[Matt]

19 hours ago, Paddock said:

I think he’s put his money where his mouth is- I think he’s cleared the debt , I think he’s delivered a stadium. I also think he’s trusted the people who he thinks know more about football than he doeswith the money he promised and they’ve pissed the lot up the wall.

 

Well, stadium isn’t delivered yet but that’s nitpicking. 

Whilst I agree with all that, and I’ve said as much previously, the buck still stops at him for making the appointments. That’s my concern and criticism at the moment, and that’s where I think he’s failing; he went all Football Manager with our club (getting the flavour of the month, current manager aside, people in place) with a grand vision that’s backfired massively. 

[Paddock]

34 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well, stadium isn’t delivered yet but that’s nitpicking. 

Whilst I agree with all that, and I’ve said as much previously, the buck still stops at him for making the appointments. That’s my concern and criticism at the moment, and that’s where I think he’s failing; he went all Football Manager with our club (getting the flavour of the month, current manager aside, people in place) with a grand vision that’s backfired massively. 

So what would you of done different- without the benefit of hindsight?

[Matt]

18 minutes ago, Paddock said:

So what would you of done different- without the benefit of hindsight?

Moved slower in building the vision, at least in regards to personnel. The stadium efforts I can’t and won’t criticize, the financial backing either. But I’ve consistently said change takes time, and that’s not just regarding the playing staff. 

[Quinn31]

15 hours ago, nogs said:

What's that got to do with disagreeing that sacking Koeman was a mistake? And you definitely used the present tense there. 

It was probably a panic and a move to do it without having a clear shortlist of who we were going to approach to be the new manager and an inkling of whether we could get them or not.

[Hafnia]

Sacking koeman was not a mistake.  His attitude and demeanour stunk.... he's not as arrogant as allardyce - that's impossible but he was a bad egg.... I think that's quite clear.

 

 

[Paddock]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Moved slower in building the vision, at least in regards to personnel. The stadium efforts I can’t and won’t criticize, the financial backing either. But I’ve consistently said change takes time, and that’s not just regarding the playing staff. 

He brought a new manager in to replace Martinez who needed replacing, he brought in Walsh who came with a big reputation and he trusted them to get it right. Imo the only thing he’s guilty of is being naive and expecting the rest of the board to have an ounce of competence.

[markjazzbassist]

8 minutes ago, Paddock said:

He brought a new manager in to replace Martinez who needed replacing, he brought in Walsh who came with a big reputation and he trusted them to get it right. Imo the only thing he’s guilty of is being naive and expecting the rest of the board to have an ounce of competence.

walsh didn't come with a big reputation.  he was sacked by a bunch of other clubs and ended up in the championship with leicester.  hit the lottery with a few players and then everyone thought he was the recruitment guru.  he's not and never was, just got lucky.  look at his signings now.  i was not a fan when we signed him because it was jumping on the one in a million leicester train and i was right.  hiring ther dutch or german guy who have been finding young players and selling them on to the bigger leagues for a decade should have been our choice.  

[Hafnia]

15 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

walsh didn't come with a big reputation.  he was sacked by a bunch of other clubs and ended up in the championship with leicester.  hit the lottery with a few players and then everyone thought he was the recruitment guru.  he's not and never was, just got lucky.  look at his signings now.  i was not a fan when we signed him because it was jumping on the one in a million leicester train and i was right.  hiring ther dutch or german guy who have been finding young players and selling them on to the bigger leagues for a decade should have been our choice.  

MJB you were fully supportive of him.... just in the way that I was.

 

You welcomed him with high hopes and defended him after the first window.

Not being critical im just stating that No one was against him being hired. 

 

 

[Paddock]

17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

walsh didn't come with a big reputation.  he was sacked by a bunch of other clubs and ended up in the championship with leicester.  hit the lottery with a few players and then everyone thought he was the recruitment guru.  he's not and never was, just got lucky.  look at his signings now.  i was not a fan when we signed him because it was jumping on the one in a million leicester train and i was right.  hiring ther dutch or german guy who have been finding young players and selling them on to the bigger leagues for a decade should have been our choice.  

He came with a big reputation of masterminding Leicester's title winning season and of finding big players like Vardy, Mahrez and Kante for peanuts- that’s why he was hired.

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, Paddock said:

He came with a big reputation of masterminding Leicester's title winning season and of finding big players like Vardy, Mahrez and Kante for peanuts- that’s why he was hired.

He also scouted Essien and drogba before their values rocketed.....

[Paddock]

2 minutes ago, hafnia said:

MJB you were fully supportive of him.... just in the way that I was.

 

You welcomed him with high hopes and defended him after the first window.

Not being critical im just stating that No one was against him being hired. 

 

 

Exactly- everyone was lauding Moshiri when he got him and Koeman (admittedly some were split on Koeman) now it’s Moshiris fault for spending all that money.

[Hafnia]

6 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Exactly- everyone was lauding Moshiri when he got him and Koeman (admittedly some were split on Koeman) now it’s Moshiris fault for spending all that money.

Alex ferguson came out and credited Walsh massively regarding Leicester's title win. 

[Matt]

41 minutes ago, Paddock said:

He brought a new manager in to replace Martinez who needed replacing, he brought in Walsh who came with a big reputation and he trusted them to get it right. Imo the only thing he’s guilty of is being naive and expecting the rest of the board to have an ounce of competence.

And that naivety is what I’m criticising. For someone who supposedly knows the game well, he really screwed up.

I knew nothing about Walsh but never liked the idea of DoF, and I don’t remember being excited or liking Koeman. They were flavour of the month signings and it’s backfired, which shows poor judgement in my eyes. Like Haf said though, hopefully he’ll learn from these mistakes. 

[markjazzbassist]

32 minutes ago, hafnia said:

MJB you were fully supportive of him.... just in the way that I was.

 

You welcomed him with high hopes and defended him after the first window.

Not being critical im just stating that No one was against him being hired. 

 

 

 

yes i did once he signed with us, i back everyone who's a blue.  before he was a blue i was skeptical due to his track record of making only a few players (which you've listed here).  i've said repeatedly in his thread i was expecting Kante like players (French players signed for pennies) because that is supposed to be his thing.  its not.  he got lucky.  i've said that almost every window and he doesn't deliver the goods.

[nogs]

4 hours ago, Paddock said:

He came with a big reputation of masterminding Leicester's title winning season and of finding big players like Vardy, Mahrez and Kante for peanuts- that’s why he was hired.

Why if he specialised in unearthing stars for peanuts was he handed a £150m transfer kitty? Where's his track record spending that kind of money? If the plan was to try and compete with the big boys financially, maybe he wasn't such a smart pick. 

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

 

yes i did once he signed with us, i back everyone who's a blue.  before he was a blue i was skeptical due to his track record of making only a few players (which you've listed here).  i've said repeatedly in his thread i was expecting Kante like players (French players signed for pennies) because that is supposed to be his thing.  its not.  he got lucky.  i've said that almost every window and he doesn't deliver the goods.

You never stated this anywhere before he signed mate.  Have a look at the Steve Walsh thread..... you said you weren't excited till you read how gutted Leicester fans were at the potential of him leaving.  

[Quinn31]

55 minutes ago, nogs said:

Why if he specialised in unearthing stars for peanuts was he handed a £150m transfer kitty? Where's his track record spending that kind of money? If the plan was to try and compete with the big boys financially, maybe he wasn't such a smart pick. 

Transfer amounts are largely meaningless - the 150m Walsh spent was the equivalent of 80-90m in 2014 and probably only 40-50m back in 2010

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

You never stated this anywhere before he signed mate.  Have a look at the Steve Walsh thread..... you said you weren't excited till you read how gutted Leicester fans were at the potential of him leaving.  

yeah i looked in the rumour forum, there was a walsh thread or discussion that wasn't in his own thread. it was when we were first linked.  but that doesn't matter.  he's done a poor job as a DOF and as a scout.  he should be fired.

[Palfy]

To be fair I don't care what he did or didn't do a Leicester, and if he was the main reason Leicester won the league and he except's the plaudits for that, then in the same way he has to except the  condemnation for were we find ourselves which he should be sacked for.

[Cornish Steve]

13 hours ago, hafnia said:

MJB you were fully supportive of him.... just in the way that I was. 

Deny it, Mark. Just pretend you're my age, when you can't remember what you did ten minutes ago let alone many months ago. Life becomes a Markovian process whereby opinions today bear no relation whatsoever to those from the past - because you can't remember them!