Alex Iwobi

[Shukes]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

We didn’t buy Gordon, Richarlison is probably break even, Kean is plus 5 million, Niels plus 1.7 million, not great I’m sure you would agree especially when Kean and Niels achieved nothing for the team, and Iwobi has been one of our better players. If he doesn’t sign a new deal then he will go for a low price that’s the way of the market, unless of course he or we run down his contract and he goes for nothing. 

So Kean and Niels are abject failures for us….. and go for more money. 
But Iwobi is a star player for us….. and will go for less? 
 

I’ve just solved all our problems then if that’s how it works. Let’s just sell any player that can’t make the first team…. We’ll make billions

[Matt]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

He was an initial payment of 35 million with 15 million in add in’s which I am assuming were met. 

Why would you assume that since we won nothing and gradually got worse?

[Hoof_It_Nev]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Why would you assume that since we won nothing and gradually got worse?

Wouldn't surprise me if the bonuses were based on not getting relegated

[StevO]

11 hours ago, Palfy said:

He was an initial payment of 35 million with 15 million in add in’s which I am assuming were met. 

Because we were so successful during his time at the club?

[Cornish Steve]

12 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

Data I saw showed 40M. And we sold for 60M. 
Even if it were 50 and sold for 60 it's still 20% profit, which in the context of the question is good.

That would be the agent fee. 

[Goodison Glory]

27 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

That would be the agent fee. 

What would be the agent fee?

[Palfy]

11 hours ago, Shukes said:

No. Don’t have the time or inclination. My point is my opinion and not based on anything other than that. 
But people are claiming he is a player that could get us into the top ten. 
 

We barely escaped relegation with him. 
Surely that makes him one of our prize assets? 

It takes 11 players to make a team I really thought you would have known that, but proved again I shouldn’t make assumptions?

[Palfy]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

Why would you assume that since we won nothing and gradually got worse?

Longevity and games played, goals scored and assists, International games, it wouldn’t I believe be based on the teams performances but the individuals achievements. 

[Palfy]

11 hours ago, Shukes said:

So Kean and Niels are abject failures for us….. and go for more money. 
But Iwobi is a star player for us….. and will go for less? 

Yes Kean and Niels were failure’s at this club, please explain their achievements for us? 
Iwobi has been one of our better players for the last 2 season's anyone with an ounce of playing knowledge wouldn’t dispute that.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

What would be the agent fee?

20% of the deal. 

What we always forget is that agents want nothing more than teams to transfer players in and out. When you look at debits and credits, teams almost always spend more than they make on players while agents win no matter what. And the fees can be extortionate.

Put another way, if we were to sell Iwobi for 25M, say, we'd be left with about 20M to buy a replacement - which means we end up with a player of less quality or we spend millions to stand still. If a player is contributing, then work with him to get even more from him.

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

20% of the deal. 

What we always forget is that agents want nothing more than teams to transfer players in and out. When you look at debits and credits, teams almost always spend more than they make on players while agents win no matter what. And the fees can be extortionate.

Put another way, if we were to sell Iwobi for 25M, say, we'd be left with about 20M to buy a replacement - which means we end up with a player of less quality or we spend millions to stand still. If a player is contributing, then work with him to get even more from him.

I get your point but I think we really need to get away from the mindset that more money paid means a better player. We could replace half our team with smart, budget signings and have a better team for it.

[Palfy]

We need to get away from judging players on what they cost, no player should be held responsible for what a club was willing to pay for them that is entirely out of their hands. We need to judge players on the merits of their performances and contributions to the team, and not by what they cost and what they get sold for because that will have little relevance to their real worth which is how they performed in game time. 

[Shukes]

16 hours ago, Palfy said:

It takes 11 players to make a team I really thought you would have known that, but proved again I shouldn’t make assumptions?

Of course. 
I just don’t agree that Iwobi is our best player at all. 
 

Yet for us to be in this position and him be a top ten player is suggesting that he must be one, if not our top player surely? Otherwise we would be much higher as it would be suggesting that we have other players that are above top ten players.

Fact is, he isn’t our best player at all, and we only have a couple of players that would be classed as top ten players. The rest are average at best.

[Shukes]

16 hours ago, Palfy said:

Yes Kean and Niels were failure’s at this club, please explain their achievements for us? 
Iwobi has been one of our better players for the last 2 season's anyone with an ounce of playing knowledge wouldn’t dispute that.

And no one is disputing that? Or are you? Don’t get where your going here mate.

The post you quoted was more of a question for you, that hasn't been answered at all. 
Palf, I’m just asking how it works in your reasoning.

 

Players are failures and go for more money than we paid for them (not a question, a statement)

Yet Iwobi has a great season (not in my book, in yours) and is worth less?

That makes no sense whatsoever. Completely illogical mate. 
 

Players who play well usually go up on value, where players who don’t play and don’t perform usually go down in value… that’s how it normally works doesn’t it?

[Shukes]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

We need to get away from judging players on what they cost, no player should be held responsible for what a club was willing to pay for them that is entirely out of their hands. We need to judge players on the merits of their performances and contributions to the team, and not by what they cost and what they get sold for because that will have little relevance to their real worth which is how they performed in game time. 

Now this I can agree with. 
You must have sobered up

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

And no one is disputing that? Or are you? Don’t get where your going here mate.

The post you quoted was more of a question for you, that hasn't been answered at all. 
Palf, I’m just asking how it works in your reasoning.

 

Players are failures and go for more money than we paid for them (not a question, a statement)

Yet Iwobi has a great season (not in my book, in yours) and is worth less?

That makes no sense whatsoever. Completely illogical mate. 
 

Players who play well usually go up on value, where players who don’t play and don’t perform usually go down in value… that’s how it normally works doesn’t it?

And a player’s value can be hugely effected by the time remaining on their contracts. In the case of Iwobi he has one year left on his contract if doesn’t sign the new contract that has been offered to him the price we get for him drops which has nothing to do with him playing poorly because he hasn’t. It’s not as simple as you suggest that if you play well you are worth more or if you play poorly you are worth less, there are other factors which effect a player’s value at the time of sale other than how they play, so no to your question that isn’t how it always or normally works that a player’s value is only relevant to how they play. And on Iwobi I never said he was our best player I have maintained and mentioned on numerous occasions that he is one of our better players, his team mates however voted him player of the season I think I would rather take more notice of their opinions than yours that he isn’t very good. If you want advice you usually take it from a professional in the field you are seeking advice on, so on the merits of Iwobi do I pay attention to the Everton players or Shukes

[Shukes]

This also counts for the other two mentioned though Palf and that’s the problem.

It can’t be just for the player you support, it is universal.

But still the simple question remains. Look, you’re not going to answer it…. Because it’s such an obvious one.

You rate Iwobi, but that simply doesn’t make him a top ten player. Which is what the point of this whole conversation is about. I don’t think he is.

There is NO evidence to suggest he is, but plenty to suggest he isn’t. As… he is playing in a team that nearly got relegated and has terrible stats in said team, among players that are clearly better than him. And this is where your argument breaks down for me. 

Iwobi is a player that teams should be looking to, to help them achieve top ten. Yet he played on a team where there are many better players than him… suggesting they must also at least be top ten players….. but that team missed relegation by a last day goal. This is clear as day for me.

Iwobi isn't a player to get you into the top ten.

Now, put him in a team that can is capable of reaching the top ten, and he can be an asset from the bench or as cover. 

Im happy that you have a spot for him, he is a nice guy. And I actually like the guy. I just don’t rate him as a good player, but rather an average player. And average players play in the bottom half of the premier league. Funnily enough….. just where we finished.

[Shukes]

Just for context i literally typed into google…

Top five current Everton players. 
Try it, he is nowhere to be seen is he?

I know that means nothing, but just to be subjective I thought I would get neutrals opinions of him. 

[Shukes]

And just one last point mate.

If Haaland was in his last six months of his contract and banging in goals for fun. You 100% won’t be getting him for the same price as if he wasn’t even getting in the team.

Thats not an opinion, not open for discussion…. Just plain hard fact. 
 

Form makes a difference.

[Shukes]

And I take offence at not paying any attention room to me!!!!’

Its not like I ever crave it.

Now reply to my posts will ya!

[Sibdane]

I like Iwobi, but he's ineffective on the wing. It's obvious he's best in the center, but we have better players there. That said, I would prefer to keep him and sign a player he can rotate with. I think he adds a creative spark even if he doesn't have a ton of end product. I think ST, CB, LB, and another CM are the current priorities over replacing him. 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

This also counts for the other two mentioned though Palf and that’s the problem.

It can’t be just for the player you support, it is universal.

But still the simple question remains. Look, you’re not going to answer it…. Because it’s such an obvious one.

You rate Iwobi, but that simply doesn’t make him a top ten player. Which is what the point of this whole conversation is about. I don’t think he is.

There is NO evidence to suggest he is, but plenty to suggest he isn’t. As… he is playing in a team that nearly got relegated and has terrible stats in said team, among players that are clearly better than him. And this is where your argument breaks down for me. 

Iwobi is a player that teams should be looking to, to help them achieve top ten. Yet he played on a team where there are many better players than him… suggesting they must also at least be top ten players….. but that team missed relegation by a last day goal. This is clear as day for me.

Iwobi isn't a player to get you into the top ten.

Now, put him in a team that can is capable of reaching the top ten, and he can be an asset from the bench or as cover. 

Im happy that you have a spot for him, he is a nice guy. And I actually like the guy. I just don’t rate him as a good player, but rather an average player. And average players play in the bottom half of the premier league. Funnily enough….. just where we finished.

Okay Einstein evidence. 
Everton player performances 22/23

1vs1 index out of 21 6th

goals out of 25 4th

assists out 25 1st

pass interceptions out of 25 6th

XG value out of 25 4th

pass progression value out of 21 1st

In 3 seasons where he played for Arsenal and was involved in well over 70% of the games and most as a starter and not a substitute, they finished well in the top 10 in all seasons, more than enough evidence that he is capable of being a top 10 player. 
I don’t have a spot for him I just recognise that he is one of our better players and have given you the stats that you have asked for and called terrible, yet no other player as finished 1st in 2 categories 4th in 2 and 6th in 2, so who are the many players that are clearly better that make him one of our worst players, and that makes my argument that he has been one of our better players break down. 
 

[Shukes]

So was Cenk Tosun involved in matches for us. 
Didn’t Arsenal sell him to us?

Wander how they’ve done since.

Most interceptions: Gana 1st

Tackle % Gana 1st

Pass completion Gana 1st

Most saves Pickford 1st

Headers won Tarks 1st

Goals McNeil 1st

And you’ve used 4th and 6th places in a failing team to show good Iwobi is. That’s usually called game over

Ill call it a day there on Iwobi and let you quit while your behind mate.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So was Cenk Tosun involved in matches for us. 
Didn’t Arsenal sell him to us?

Wander how they’ve done since.

Most interceptions: Gana 1st

Tackle % Gana 1st

Pass completion Gana 1st

Most saves Pickford 1st

Headers won Tarks 1st

Goals McNeil 1st

And you’ve used 4th and 6th places in a failing team to show good Iwobi is. That’s usually called game over

Ill call it a day there on Iwobi and let you quit while your behind mate.

Of course I have if you finish 1st twice and 4th and 6th twice out of 6 categories out of the whole squad then that makes you one of the better players in the team and certainly not one of the worst, so that’s not game over that’s called game on. Yes Arsenal did sell him to us, but that doesn’t mean the evidence isn’t there that he isn’t capable of playing in a top 10 team he did for 3 seasons, but like I said before it takes a team and not one player to get success. 

[Aidan]

Iwobi is obviously one of the better players in our squad, and he also isn't very good. Can we just settle on that?

[Goodison Glory]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

Okay Einstein evidence. 
Everton player performances 22/23

1vs1 index out of 21 6th

goals out of 25 4th

assists out 25 1st

pass interceptions out of 25 6th

XG value out of 25 4th

pass progression value out of 21 1st

In 3 seasons where he played for Arsenal and was involved in well over 70% of the games and most as a starter and not a substitute, they finished well in the top 10 in all seasons, more than enough evidence that he is capable of being a top 10 player. 
I don’t have a spot for him I just recognise that he is one of our better players and have given you the stats that you have asked for and called terrible, yet no other player as finished 1st in 2 categories 4th in 2 and 6th in 2, so who are the many players that are clearly better that make him one of our worst players, and that makes my argument that he has been one of our better players break down. 
 

 To state whether iwobi is a player worthy of a top 10 side we should compare him against the rest of the league not against our shit show of a team.

He's an attacker so I've just used those type of metrics. I've not cherry picked. 

Input

minutes played 98th percentile

Output

goals 48th percentile 

XG Scored 56th percentile

shot conversion 45th percentile 

assists 87th percentile

Pass Completion 57th percentile

cross completion 73rd percentile

Dribbles 86th percentile

Dribble completion 46th percentile

Tackles made: 70th percentile

times dispossessed: 32nd percentile (that's bad)

Goals Rank 227 / 442 qualifying players

AssistRank 67 / 442 qualifying players 

To me he seems average. Assists and Crosses are above average but passing, dribbling and scoring seems average. 

note: if you're interested, his stats the prior year were slightly worse. Assists/Crosses good, most others 50th percentile except losing the ball and passing - which were both <40th percentile (bad for a midfielder I'd think)

 

 

 

[Matt]

Iwobi is good enought to get us top half. His talent and application isn't really an issue, his decision making is. But that transforms with confidence.

The whole squad as it is, is a top 10 squad. It's "just" individual errors at the wrong time, haphazard choices and rash/panicked reactions that can be seen from the owner to the pitch. But the squad is much better than it has performed in recent years. 

[StevO]

11 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I like Iwobi, but he's ineffective on the wing. It's obvious he's best in the center, but we have better players there. That said, I would prefer to keep him and sign a player he can rotate with. I think he adds a creative spark even if he doesn't have a ton of end product. I think ST, CB, LB, and another CM are the current priorities over replacing him. 

The problem when he is in the middle is that every single time he gives the ball away we seem to concede.
He runs himself into blind alleys regardless of where he is on the pitch. But when he’s out wide the ball tends to go out for a throw in or goal kick, when he does it in the middle we are massively exposed to the counter. 
It’s very much risk and reward with him, unfortunately the risk when he’s in the middle is too high and the reward out wide isn’t high enough. 

[Goodison Glory]

21 minutes ago, StevO said:

The problem when he is in the middle is that every single time he gives the ball away we seem to concede.
He runs himself into blind alleys regardless of where he is on the pitch. But when he’s out wide the ball tends to go out for a throw in or goal kick, when he does it in the middle we are massively exposed to the counter. 
It’s very much risk and reward with him, unfortunately the risk when he’s in the middle is too high and the reward out wide isn’t high enough. 

Look at the stats I quoted in the prior page - his passing accuracy and consequently loss of possession rates are shocking for a midfielder...he def adds something going forward and we don't have funds to replace him so we should keep him but he does have some brain fart moments. 

[Romey 1878]

39 minutes ago, StevO said:

The problem when he is in the middle is that every single time he gives the ball away we seem to concede.
He runs himself into blind alleys regardless of where he is on the pitch. But when he’s out wide the ball tends to go out for a throw in or goal kick, when he does it in the middle we are massively exposed to the counter. 
It’s very much risk and reward with him, unfortunately the risk when he’s in the middle is too high and the reward out wide isn’t high enough. 

You would never guess that he came through Arsenal's academy.