Carlo Ancelotti

[c1982]

Ancelotti’s not getting carried away after that loss nor should any of us.

[DownUnderToff]

11 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Ancelotti’s not getting carried away after that loss nor should any of us.

Agree that the loss is not the end of the world, not a huge fan of the "we cannot play an open game" sentiment though.  Bit too defeatist.

[Btay]

3 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

Agree that the loss is not the end of the world, not a huge fan of the "we cannot play an open game" sentiment though.  Bit too defeatist.

I think he knows we need our best 11 to compete. Right tactics, unlucky with the OG as I thought we were starting to come into the game. Re group and go again.

[Romey 1878]

36 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Ancelotti’s not getting carried away after that loss nor should any of us.

I expected a loss and that sort of performance tbh. I'm not arsed in the slightest.

[DownUnderToff]

7 minutes ago, Btay said:

I think he knows we need our best 11 to compete. Right tactics, unlucky with the OG as I thought we were starting to come into the game. Re group and go again.

Outside of turning up for Liverpool, I think we've been pretty average for the last 7 games now.  We need a kick up the ass.

[c1982]

16 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

Agree that the loss is not the end of the world, not a huge fan of the "we cannot play an open game" sentiment though.  Bit too defeatist.

We couldn’t with what we have/had available.

[c1982]

13 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I expected a loss and that sort of performance tbh. I'm not arsed in the slightest.

Exactly how I feel - I’m just glad it was 2 and didn’t get to 4+ which it easily could have.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, c1982 said:

Exactly how I feel - I’m just glad it was 2 and didn’t get to 4+ which it easily could have.

That is exactly my thinking. I hoped we'd keep it to 1 but 2 isn't  the end of the world.

[c1982]

6 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

Outside of turning up for Liverpool, I think we've been pretty average for the last 7 games now.  We need a kick up the ass.

I agree but we’ve won some big games in that time. The next 3 league games are very winnable on paper - we’ll be right in the mix for the top 4 if we can win them.

[DownUnderToff]

8 minutes ago, c1982 said:

We couldn’t with what we have/had available.

(Genuine question) who are we missing that you think would have made all the difference to style/game plan? 

Coleman and Doucore are the only 2 that come to my mind, not sure he'd have started Rodriguez if fit (due to defensive gap).  It's a bit frustrating if 2 players are the difference between getting on the ball and consistently ceding possession.

Being better/stronger on the ball is not just about the Chelsea game; probably more so Brom, Southampton, and Fulham.

[Bailey]

2 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

(Genuine question) who are we missing that you think would have made all the difference to style/game plan? 

Coleman and Doucore are the only 2 that come to my mind, not sure he'd have started Rodriguez if fit (due to defensive gap).  It's a bit frustrating if 2 players are the difference between getting on the ball and consistently ceding possession.

Being better/stronger on the ball is not just about the Chelsea game; probably more so Brom, Southampton, and Fulham.

This. 

Our performances havent really changed regardless of personnel. We play as badly as we do regardless of who plays. 

The Utd side that had a go at Chelsea was as follows:

De Gea

Wan-Bissaka Lindelof Maguire Shaw

James Fred Fernandes McTominay Rashford

Greenwood

That isn't a side that is streets clear of the team that we played tonight. If you compare our available to squad to that team, how many players make it into our starting 11? 

Fernandes is the obvious one but the rest would be debatable for most on here. 

[c1982]

3 minutes ago, DownUnderToff said:

(Genuine question) who are we missing that you think would have made all the difference to style/game plan? 

Coleman and Doucore are the only 2 that come to my mind, not sure he'd have started Rodriguez if fit (due to defensive gap).  It's a bit frustrating if 2 players are the difference between getting on the ball and consistently ceding possession.

Being better/stronger on the ball is not just about the Chelsea game; probably more so Brom, Southampton, and Fulham.

In my opinion - without Doucoure alongside Allan, we’ll struggle to dominate most midfield battles let alone one of the strongest midfields in the league (probably Europe too). Without James we haven’t got much match-winning creativity. They’re the 2 obvious ones but I think Holgate being right back is a big negative attacking wise but I think Coleman can only play there with the protection of Doucoure and Allan controlling the midfield so partly Coleman’s absence - then I’d rather have Godfrey in ahead of Holgate at rb but obviously Mina’s out. Don’t get me wrong, Holgate has done well but right back is 100% the most important position to sort out this summer - we’ve not had that balance for most of the season and credit to Ancelotti for covering it tactically but I see it as a huge weakness and part of the reason why we struggle to dominate games.

Out of interest, how many minutes have Doucoure, Allan and James all played together? And Digne? Richarlison and Dom (and Gylfi to be fair) may get the goals but these 3/4 are the ones who help us dominate possession and create opportunities.

[c1982]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

This. 

Our performances havent really changed regardless of personnel. We play as badly as we do regardless of who plays. 

The Utd side that had a go at Chelsea was as follows:

De Gea

Wan-Bissaka Lindelof Maguire Shaw

James Fred Fernandes McTominay Rashford

Greenwood

That isn't a side that is streets clear of the team that we played tonight. If you compare our available to squad to that team, how many players make it into our starting 11? 

Fernandes is the obvious one but the rest would be debatable for most on here. 

Natural full-backs playing with natural wide men is a massive help.

[Romey 1878]

One thing that is apparent is that Doucoure can play without Allan but Allan is a hell of a lot less effective without Doucoure. Allan simply cannot do his job as well without legs next to him. So if Doucoure is out for the rest of the season it's going to be a big problem for us.

[London Blue]

I think that Chelsea side has the second best midfield in the league and any side would struggle. 

We were not as effective as we did not have the movement on the wings to create space and stretch Chelsea. If we had an attacking right back version of Dinge, plus a right wing Richarlison we would have had more threat and given them more of a game.

As it was we could not retain possession as the ball kept coming back. I think a midfield of Alan, Davies and Gomes would have been better as Davies would have complemented Alan, and Gomes could play slightly higher up.

This team is still a work in progress, and tonight's side was patched up. We still had some nice periods of play. Imagine how well we can play when we have a full team with a full pre-season and new signings in the areas we are short.

 

[Bailey]

22 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Natural full-backs playing with natural wide men is a massive help.

Coleman was on the bench and we don't play with "natural" wide men.

[Romey 1878]

5 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Coleman was on the bench and we don't play with "natural" wide men.

No he wasn't.

[Bailey]

21 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

No he wasn't.

Sorry @c1982 I didnt realise he wasn't available and what is worse, I hadn't realised that he wasn't on the bench for at least the last two games either! 

[Btay]

I don’t think there’s a lot to assess on this game. Our bench speaks volume of our depth. A proper right back, Doucoure in for Gomes, James for Gylfi and an electric right winger is what we were missing.

No point playing Iwobi and asking him to defend the whole time.

[Romey 1878]

33 minutes ago, Btay said:

I don’t think there’s a lot to assess on this game. Our bench speaks volume of our depth. A proper right back, Doucoure in for Gomes, James for Gylfi and an electric right winger is what we were missing.

No point playing Iwobi.

Fixed it for you.

[markjazzbassist]

Had richi scored it’s a different game.  We missed a few of our best players and made 2 mistake they capitalized on.  Move on and keep up the effort and try and beat burnley.  I’ll take Europa league I won’t thumb my nose at it.  

[StevO]

11 hours ago, DownUnderToff said:

(Genuine question) who are we missing that you think would have made all the difference to style/game plan? 

Coleman and Doucore are the only 2 that come to my mind, not sure he'd have started Rodriguez if fit (due to defensive gap).  It's a bit frustrating if 2 players are the difference between getting on the ball and consistently ceding possession.

Being better/stronger on the ball is not just about the Chelsea game; probably more so Brom, Southampton, and Fulham.

The big difference is if we had those three players in the starting 11 we might have had a better chance. The real gulf in class was that they brought on Mount, Kante and Pulisic. 
With our best 11 out the most we can bring on is King, Bernard or Gylfi. 
We don’t have the squad depth or options to change things. 

[FairWooney]

8 minutes ago, StevO said:

The big difference is if we had those three players in the starting 11 we might have had a better chance. The real gulf in class was that they brought on Mount, Kante and Pulisic. 
With our best 11 out the most we can bring on is King, Bernard or Gylfi. 
We don’t have the squad depth or options to change things. 

exactly, the commentator pointed it out when they brought on Mount or Pulisic.  Tuchel has rotated his side plenty since coming in and he has another player of similar quality in each position, we have at least 7 or 8 of the same players every game and we are very much a different team if we are short 1 or 2 key players, plus if one of your players isn't having a great game there's no replacement and if you want to do something different there's very little in the way of options.

Bernard really isn't favoured by Carlo but he's been forced into giving him game time and Davies while looking much better is not going to make a huge difference to anything.

Carlo knows he's lacking the quality also to match up to top teams, this is disappointing but he's managed to get plenty of points playing in a way that has worked against them.  Chelsea looked very good, pressing high and fast, quick breaks and never gave us any time to settle.  They don't look fully drilled yet and i'm sure he'll want to change a few players but I can see them competing for the title if they continue to progress from how they played last night next season.

We do definitely need a new right back, I'd rather have Coleman playing to be honest for what he brings going forward and I'd be disappointed if he didn't play against Burnley in a match where we need the wing back more.  Holgate can do the job at the back and while comfortable on the ball he's not a full back.  He had one chance where he got forward and put a cross that went way past everyone, if that was Digne or even Coleman it would have hit the 6 yard box. 

 

 

[StevO]

5 minutes ago, FairWooney said:

exactly, the commentator pointed it out when they brought on Mount or Pulisic.  Tuchel has rotated his side plenty since coming in and he has another player of similar quality in each position, we have at least 7 or 8 of the same players every game and we are very much a different team if we are short 1 or 2 key players, plus if one of your players isn't having a great game there's no replacement and if you want to do something different there's very little in the way of options.

Bernard really isn't favoured by Carlo but he's been forced into giving him game time and Davies while looking much better is not going to make a huge difference to anything.

Carlo knows he's lacking the quality also to match up to top teams, this is disappointing but he's managed to get plenty of points playing in a way that has worked against them.  Chelsea looked very good, pressing high and fast, quick breaks and never gave us any time to settle.  They don't look fully drilled yet and i'm sure he'll want to change a few players but I can see them competing for the title if they continue to progress from how they played last night next season.

We do definitely need a new right back, I'd rather have Coleman playing to be honest for what he brings going forward and I'd be disappointed if he didn't play against Burnley in a match where we need the wing back more.  Holgate can do the job at the back and while comfortable on the ball he's not a full back.  He had one chance where he got forward and put a cross that went way past everyone, if that was Digne or even Coleman it would have hit the 6 yard box. 

 

 

Agree with all of that mate. 
Id love is to get top four, but I would fear for how much of a kicking we would get unless we had some serious strengthening in the summer. Maybe we need to just get Europa League next season and try to progress through there, while trusting in Carlo to have us back competing. 

[Hafnia]

Analyse our squad Vs the likes of Chelsea Liverpool Man United etc etc.

We have a decent first 11 with no bonafide options for cover aside centre half 

The centre half situation is what we need in midfield, full back and attack. 

[Bailey]

I don't understand why people think we will play differently with other players in the starting line-up. This is us. Even when Coleman was fit Holgate or Godfrey played right back. Even when we had a winger available, Digne played left wing.

You just don't go from playing poorly to playing well because a couple of players come back into the team. We haven't just been outplayed by the big teams, we were outplayed by West Brom managed by Sam Allardyce. I feel like some of you lot need a good shake and to stop kidding yourself.

There is a lot more potential in this squad than our performances have shown. We have done incredibly well to pick up the amount of points that we have but that is by no means guaranteed to continue given how we are playing.

[markjazzbassist]

FFS bailey we had literally no right side, you put in coleman and james and all of a sudden we have creativity, width, and actual defense on the right side (from coleman, holgate was a ghost).  doucoure?  that midfield battle is completely different.  i can't tell if you can't see these things or your lawyer brain kicks in and you love to argue so much you just make shit up to argue and argue some more.

[c1982]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

I don't understand why people think we will play differently with other players in the starting line-up. This is us. Even when Coleman was fit Holgate or Godfrey played right back. Even when we had a winger available, Digne played left wing.

You just don't go from playing poorly to playing well because a couple of players come back into the team. We haven't just been outplayed by the big teams, we were outplayed by West Brom managed by Sam Allardyce. I feel like some of you lot need a good shake and to stop kidding yourself.

There is a lot more potential in this squad than our performances have shown. We have done incredibly well to pick up the amount of points that we have but that is by no means guaranteed to continue given how we are playing.

What’s playing well? Brighton are lovely on the eye but are in a relegation battle. We probably played our most effective football with 4 centre backs as a back 4 during December, where we picked up some key points but it wasn’t always pretty. Ancelotti knows how to win games - end of!

When we had our ‘strongest’ eleven at the beginning of the season, we played differently; we looked exciting and scored for fun but, obviously, injuries take their toll and we don’t have the squad (Ancelotti’s not had enough time to right the wrongs of previous misspending).

An obvious example of how exposed/light our squad is, is that Coleman needs the midfield cover of Doucoure and Allan to look effective as a right back in this team. Sign a natural right back who can defend and provide and we’re a better team instantly. Sign a more suited cm than Gomes and Sigurdsson (I actually think Davies has been a revelation) and the loss of Doucoure or Allan isn’t such a disaster.

I actually think most are showing a very good understanding of our current situation - this is by no means Ancelotti’s squad but he isn’t half making the best out of a mismatched bunch of square pegs for round holes. It’s not always pretty but it’s generally effective.

[Btay]

I don’t think we have been great but we have been extremely structured, which is credit to Carlo.

Personally I’m a big fan of the Martinez/Silva style football but we had no structure, players had no accountability for their tasks/jobs. 

Hopefully, another 2/3 quality additions to the team and we can a bit more possession, control and flair come into our games. 

[DavisJD]

1 hour ago, Btay said:

I don’t think we have been great but we have been extremely structured, which is credit to Carlo.

Personally I’m a big fan of the Martinez/Silva style football but we had no structure, players had no accountability for their tasks/jobs. 

Hopefully, another 2/3 quality additions to the team and we can a bit more possession, control and flair come into our games. 

When it was clicking with Martinez in his first season, we would see out games by not giving the ball back to the opposition, it was a joy to watch at times.

Now we employ block, and it terrifies me!