Carlo Ancelotti

[pete0]

9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Iwobi scored 3 and created 7 goals in the season before he joined us, playing 35 games in the league for an Arsenal side that finished 5th and 11 times scoring and creating 2 in a Europa League campaign that ended in the loss in the final. His problems have been since he joined Everton for which he has never got going. I don't think it was a coincidence that his best form came when he was played regularly.

Don't think it's about playing regularly. At Arsenal he was playing faster football, helped by their passing being more crisp and their players getting forward more. 

For me the two biggest problems are Richarlison who's runs are shite and doesn't pass the ball enough to link up play, and Sigurdsson who doesn't make forward runs and too often doesn't even make forward passes. 

[Romey 1878]

Digne a bad signing... I've heard it all now .

[markjazzbassist]

7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Digne a bad signing... I've heard it all now .

He had 1.5 good years, been league average since then.  For the wages he’s on he’s performing below that standard. You wanna have a pop at Carlo and everyone “he’s not above criticism” well neither is digne, he was ducking awful this year.  You could swap him with any other LB in the league and there wouldn’t have been any difference.  But go on about Carlo please

[Romey 1878]

2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

He had 1.5 good years, been league average since then.  For the wages he’s on he’s performing below that standard. You wanna have a pop at Carlo and everyone “he’s not above criticism” well neither is digne, he was ducking awful this year.  You could swap him with any other LB in the league and there wouldn’t have been any difference.  But go on about Carlo please

You sound really hurt by me being critical of our manager for not doing as well as he should be. Bit weird that.

But, carry on being a tit please. It's entertaining.

[markjazzbassist]

12 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You sound really hurt by me being critical of our manager for not doing as well as he should be. Bit weird that.

But, carry on being a tit please. It's entertaining.

Not hurt at all just love the selective criticism.  Everyone having a go at Richarlison and DCL and Carlo.  No one looking at brands digne and Coleman, they all get passes for some reason even though they have been as bad or worse.  Just the way TT goes, mob mentality.  Thank you for caring about me though, XOXO

[Romey 1878]

2 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Not hurt at all just love the selective criticism.  Everyone having a go at Richarlison and DCL and Carlo.  No one looking at brands digne and Coleman, they all get passes for some reason even though they have been as bad or worse.  Just the way TT goes, mob mentality.  Thank you for caring about me though, XOXO

Selective criticism... maybe, just maybe, I think Ancelotti deserves criticism and don't think Digne does. Hence me not criticising one of the best LB's in the league since he arrived. Mob mentality... you really do chat shite, Mark. I couldn't care less if there isn't a single person who agrees with my view on anything. I'll stand by it and put it out there regardless.

And I don't care about you at all. I find stupidity really annoying but others will enjoy it, so carry on with it, every place needs a clown.

[markjazzbassist]

52 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Selective criticism... maybe, just maybe, I think Ancelotti deserves criticism and don't think Digne does. Hence me not criticising one of the best LB's in the league since he arrived. Mob mentality... you really do chat shite, Mark. I couldn't care less if there isn't a single person who agrees with my view on anything. I'll stand by it and put it out there regardless.

And I don't care about you at all. I find stupidity really annoying but others will enjoy it, so carry on with it, every place needs a clown.

there's no need to try and put me down, i'm just expressing my views.

[MikeO]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

there's no need to try and put me down, i'm just expressing my views.

Just to put this out there mate, and I'm not trying to be your dad, is that sometimes your "opinions" are just plain provably wrong. Eg earlier today you said, talking about the people you described as "whopper" signings, "gbamin and delph barely playing, both had large injury records before we signed them."

Bailey then links a stat showing that Gbamin missed twelve games through injury in the six years before he signed for us, so what you've said was way wide of the mark. But instead of coming on and saying, "OK, my mistake" you ignore it, and if past experience is anything to go by you'll be back saying the same about what a dreadful signing he was in the next few weeks. There's views and there's facts, and if a view is factually disprovable it's a view that's going to get stick.

[Newty82]

Love it. Still the same old TT.

[markjazzbassist]

25 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Just to put this out there mate, and I'm not trying to be your dad, is that sometimes your "opinions" are just plain provably wrong. Eg earlier today you said, talking about the people you described as "whopper" signings, "gbamin and delph barely playing, both had large injury records before we signed them."

Bailey then links a stat showing that Gbamin missed twelve games through injury in the six years before he signed for us, so what you've said was way wide of the mark. But instead of coming on and saying, "OK, my mistake" you ignore it, and if past experience is anything to go by you'll be back saying the same about what a dreadful signing he was in the next few weeks. There's views and there's facts, and if a view is factually disprovable it's a view that's going to get stick.

mike if you read the link bailey sent it shows stats on how many days he was out and how many games he missed.  he missed 23 matches, where you getting the 12 games you say are fact?  as to bailey's points, allan's record is similar, which isn't true, go to the same site and look, allan has missed less matches (only 16) AND he's 5 years older than JP.  James there's no argument, but we didn't pay 25m for him, we paid nothing and there were other factors (commercial, big name, americas marketing, etc).  as far as saying my mistake i've done that plenty just read every rumorama thread and you'll see my record on signings is worse than ole Brands.  

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

mike if you read the link bailey sent it shows stats on how many days he was out and how many games he missed.  he missed 23 matches, where you getting the 12 games you say are fact?  as to bailey's points, allan's record is similar, which isn't true, go to the same site and look, allan has missed less matches (only 16) AND he's 5 years older than JP.  James there's no argument, but we didn't pay 25m for him, we paid nothing and there were other factors (commercial, big name, americas marketing, etc).  as far as saying my mistake i've done that plenty just read every rumorama thread and you'll see my record on signings is worse than ole Brands.  

I missed the knee injury he had in 2015 that made him miss eleven games so my mistake (see how easy it is?) but in the six seasons he played before he joined us for Lens and Mainz he played 193 games which averages 32 games per season. That's not a "large injury record" in anyone's book, so calling him a "whopper" of a signing is just plain daft.

[markjazzbassist]

13 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I missed the knee injury he had in 2015 that made him miss eleven games so my mistake (see how easy it is?) but in the six seasons he played before he joined us for Lens and Mainz he played 193 games which averages 32 games per season. That's not a "large injury record" in anyone's book, so calling him a "whopper" of a signing is just plain daft.

the transfer will be called a failure and it was Brands who signed him.  those are facts.  If you don't like the word whopper, than my mistake (see not a problem), use whatever non hamburger noun you'd like.  that doesn't change the outcome though and it doesn't change who's accountable for that.  

 

i went to look at more people for comparisons, doucoure and davies.  i'm not sure that site is accurate.  says davies has only missed 2 games in his whole career.  doucoure missed 4 with watford.  

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

the transfer will be called a failure and it was Brands who signed him.  those are facts.  If you don't like the word whopper, than my mistake (see not a problem), use whatever non hamburger noun you'd like.  that doesn't change the outcome though and it doesn't change who's accountable for that.

So you hold Brands accountable for him getting injured? He must be cursing not getting his crystal ball serviced the moron. Carry on, I give up.

[Aidan]

Can we all just agree that we collectively hate Delph and move on? 

At least we've all got some common ground here. 

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Can we all just agree that we collectively hate Delph and move on? 

At least we've all got some common ground here. 

Can't agree with that mate, big Delph fan me. No wait a minute that was dolphins, my eyesight is shot.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

So you hold Brands accountable for him getting injured? He must be cursing not getting his crystal ball serviced the moron. Carry on, I give up.

Good point here mike, all I can say is in a corporate environment (maybe this is cultural and it’s different in England so I could be totally wrong on this) regardless of the outcome if its within your duties and you make a mistake you are accountable regardless of the circumstances.  He’s paid millions of pounds a year, and like you said he doesn’t have a crystal ball but in my experience bosses don’t just let things like that slide.  Maybe in England they are more humane and understanding I dunno.

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

mike if you read the link bailey sent it shows stats on how many days he was out and how many games he missed.  he missed 23 matches, where you getting the 12 games you say are fact?  as to bailey's points, allan's record is similar, which isn't true, go to the same site and look, allan has missed less matches (only 16) AND he's 5 years older than JP.  James there's no argument, but we didn't pay 25m for him, we paid nothing and there were other factors (commercial, big name, americas marketing, etc).  as far as saying my mistake i've done that plenty just read every rumorama thread and you'll see my record on signings is worse than ole Brands.  

For the record I did say "recent" injury record so it is true.

Also I would be pretty sure Allan did get injured before he joined Napoli but it just isn't on record. 

Again, I still haven't seen an explanation as to why this is Brands fault and not the medical team? 

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

For the record I did say "recent" injury record so it is true.

Also I would be pretty sure Allan did get injured before he joined Napoli but it just isn't on record. 

Again, I still haven't seen an explanation as to why this is Brands fault and not the medical team? 

yeah i don't think it's the most accurate but i did a few google searches because i thought i remembered reading an article when we first signed him (Gbamin) about all his injury issues at Mainz, couldn't find it or i dreamt it up.

 

as i said above it happened on his watch.  just like a CEO is liable for all employees, he's liable for all incomings/goings/etc he's Director of Football.  that's his job that's why he's paid millions just like a CEO is.  unless as i stated above the work culture is different in england and execs aren't held to that high of a standard for accountability.  i've worked for japanese and american companies, and regardless of the issues i faced at the end of the day there are no excuses.  either you did the work and it was acceptable or you didn't and there was no excuse that would make that ok.  again this could be a cultural difference, maybe you europeans aren't as hard on people.

[Shukes]

We use route cause analysis over here generally MJB. There is blame to be had, but RCA generally gets to the bottom of any problem if done right.

Bit that’s usually reserved for bigger more experienced company’s. Smaller ones find it easy to put the blame at someone’s feet.

I remember working for Multisorb technologies (Buffalo based) and we had a visit from Jansen ( Johnson and Johnson ) and was asked about a RCA that was 50% complete. The Jansen guy asked if I had an idea what the cause was.... I made the mistake of saying it was down to human error! Damn I learnt a lesson that day haha.

Nothing to do with this thread like.... but no our season is over I have other thoughts entering my head haha! Might even start speaking to the missus and kids again for a few months!

[Wiggytop]

8 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Good point here mike, all I can say is in a corporate environment (maybe this is cultural and it’s different in England so I could be totally wrong on this) regardless of the outcome if its within your duties and you make a mistake you are accountable regardless of the circumstances

A DOF cannot be held accountable for a player getting injured, is Liverpool’s DOF accountable for VVD (the most recent serious injury I can think of at the moment) anymore than they would be for them being involved in an accident of some sort, or the player becoming seriously ill.

What they could be accountable for is signing a player with known injury history caused by no contact activity, even if they were, it’s a commercial risk. We signed Peter Reid who had a long history of injury, it was a risk, but that one turned out well.

[Zoo 2.0]

6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Either you did the work and it was acceptable or you didn't and there was no excuse that would make that ok.  again this could be a cultural difference, maybe you europeans aren't as hard on people.

Generally in the US and Japan work is the priority, ahead of family and anything else. The company is basically your life. 

It does seem to be the opposite (in my experience) in Europe which is the way it should be. I work so that I can live, I don't live so that I can work.

I may has misunderstood your post, so sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick but if the vibe is that Brands should be under some sort of pressure due to JPG's injury record then that is absolutely bonkers thinking.

[StevO]

12 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Good point here mike, all I can say is in a corporate environment (maybe this is cultural and it’s different in England so I could be totally wrong on this) regardless of the outcome if its within your duties and you make a mistake you are accountable regardless of the circumstances.  He’s paid millions of pounds a year, and like you said he doesn’t have a crystal ball but in my experience bosses don’t just let things like that slide.  Maybe in England they are more humane and understanding I dunno.

I don’t see any scenario where the guy who signed a player can be blamed for the player being injured on the pitch. Corporate environment or not, I work in a corporate environment and if I was blamed for something that for out of my control I’m looking for the door myself. Ridiculous to blame someone for something they are not in control of. Not humane or understanding, just logical. 

[Bailey]

11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

yeah i don't think it's the most accurate but i did a few google searches because i thought i remembered reading an article when we first signed him (Gbamin) about all his injury issues at Mainz, couldn't find it or i dreamt it up.

 

as i said above it happened on his watch.  just like a CEO is liable for all employees, he's liable for all incomings/goings/etc he's Director of Football.  that's his job that's why he's paid millions just like a CEO is.  unless as i stated above the work culture is different in england and execs aren't held to that high of a standard for accountability.  i've worked for japanese and american companies, and regardless of the issues i faced at the end of the day there are no excuses.  either you did the work and it was acceptable or you didn't and there was no excuse that would make that ok.  again this could be a cultural difference, maybe you europeans aren't as hard on people.

I am pretty sure if a CEO hires someone on a fixed 2 year contract and they get hit by a bus the next day, the board aren't going to be pointing the finger and blaming the CEO. Unless the CEO was driving the bus of course!

[StevO]

1 minute ago, Bailey said:

I am pretty sure if a CEO hires someone on a fixed 2 year contract and they get hit by a bus the next day, the board aren't going to be pointing the finger and blaming the CEO. Unless the CEO was driving the bus of course!

And which CEO hired Brands? Might have to take a bit of the blame for the Gbamin injury. Let’s not let them off the hook with Andre Gomes breaking his leg too. 

[markjazzbassist]

16 minutes ago, StevO said:

And which CEO hired Brands? Might have to take a bit of the blame for the Gbamin injury. Let’s not let them off the hook with Andre Gomes breaking his leg too. 

andre has played again, gbamin has been injured 3 different times and been out indefinitely and might never play a full 90 for us.  andre has offered return on the investment, gbamin has been nothing but a liability.  do you think in year end evaluations moshiri/rysantanov (sp?) just push signings and large wastes of money like that to the side, not caring?  "its ok mate, 25m and 60k a week wages, not a problem".  not to mention he was slotted to be a starter and messed up that whole campaign because we had a makeshift midfield (which is also on brands).  look we obviously don't see eye to eye and that's fine, you think he deserves more leeway, i don't.

[Hafnia]

4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

andre has played again, gbamin has been injured 3 different times and been out indefinitely and might never play a full 90 for us.  andre has offered return on the investment, gbamin has been nothing but a liability.  do you think in year end evaluations moshiri/rysantanov (sp?) just push signings and large wastes of money like that to the side, not caring?  "its ok mate, 25m and 60k a week wages, not a problem".  not to mention he was slotted to be a starter and messed up that whole campaign because we had a makeshift midfield (which is also on brands).  look we obviously don't see eye to eye and that's fine, you think he deserves more leeway, i don't.

MJB ..... Are you seriously calling Gbamin a failure???  There is absolutely nothing - other than a crystal ball that could have anticipated his injury.  

He had no previous issues, passed his medical. ..... How is this the fault of anyone? 

[markjazzbassist]

19 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

MJB ..... Are you seriously calling Gbamin a failure???  There is absolutely nothing - other than a crystal ball that could have anticipated his injury.  

He had no previous issues, passed his medical. ..... How is this the fault of anyone? 

i already explained many times over, someone has to be accountable.  what i am ascertaining is in your culture that is not the case.  in american sports GM's are accountable for all the players they bring in, and yes injuries play a big part in that.  they always say the same thing when they are fired "we had some injuries, some results didn't go our way, but at the end of the day it's my job to build the squad and put out a winning product and we didn't do that and that's on me".  they are accountable because that's their job and why they are paid millions.

[Shukes]

That’s a collective though mate. It is on them to get results.... regardless of one player getting an injury. 
The responsibility is for the team, not the individual player. 
 

Gbamin hasn’t ruined our season, the entire team hasn’t performed as expected... that that is on management and staff.

[MikeO]

46 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i already explained many times over, someone has to be accountable.  what i am ascertaining is in your culture that is not the case.  in american sports GM's are accountable for all the players they bring in, and yes injuries play a big part in that.  they always say the same thing when they are fired "we had some injuries, some results didn't go our way, but at the end of the day it's my job to build the squad and put out a winning product and we didn't do that and that's on me".  they are accountable because that's their job and why they are paid millions.

But your whole initial judgement was based on the premise that he had "large injury records" before we signed him, and if that was the case you might have a point; but, as has been shown, that wasn't the case. Therefore, by every logical measure, nobody is "accountable" because there's absolutely nothing to be accountable for.....in anybody's mind but yours it seems. 

If we employed a club soothsayer I'd be calling for his head, but as far as I'm aware we don't.

[StevO]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i already explained many times over, someone has to be accountable.  what i am ascertaining is in your culture that is not the case.  in american sports GM's are accountable for all the players they bring in, and yes injuries play a big part in that.  they always say the same thing when they are fired "we had some injuries, some results didn't go our way, but at the end of the day it's my job to build the squad and put out a winning product and we didn't do that and that's on me".  they are accountable because that's their job and why they are paid millions.

There is the crux of the problem. Your opinion on football is based on your experience of American sports. They aren’t even close to being run in the same way. The same way the American owners thought it would be ok to put their clubs into the super league, things are done different in football/Europe. They are football clubs, being run for and on behalf of the supporters, not being run for the profit of the owners. Yes, they are businesses, but not in the traditional sense. There isn’t always a direct responsibility for when mistakes are made. It’s not always that cut and dry.