Sean Dyche

[FairWooney]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

I think people just assume that a manager has a style and the players magically adapt. He'd probably walk before he was kicked with this lot. We need some discipline to reinstall some confidence, we have that guy. It just takes time. 

I think it depends on the manager, some a pretty stubborn in how they want to play where as others will adapt and may over time try to steer things to what they'd prefer.

A manager that can't adapt really isn't worth having unless they are coming into a side that matches their philosophy.  A smart side like Brighton ensured that they replaced Potter with a manager who could continue his job rather than wanting to change everything.  This also makes things much more simple so far as building a squad goes.

A flaw in Martinez was he tried to get players passing it round and playing possession football, at times it often ended with either mistakes leading to goals or fans screaming for players to hoof it forward because there players on the ball didn't have the nouse to know what to do with it when confronted by a wall of opposition players.

I don't think he'd have us top of the long ball table though!

Note on the above, Brentford also play a fair amount of long balls but a lot more of them reach a target!

Teams on our level in Bournemouth and Sheffield United have similarly low success rate but haven't attempted as many.

[StevO]

9 hours ago, FairWooney said:

I think it depends on the manager, some a pretty stubborn in how they want to play where as others will adapt and may over time try to steer things to what they'd prefer.

A manager that can't adapt really isn't worth having unless they are coming into a side that matches their philosophy.  A smart side like Brighton ensured that they replaced Potter with a manager who could continue his job rather than wanting to change everything.  This also makes things much more simple so far as building a squad goes.

A flaw in Martinez was he tried to get players passing it round and playing possession football, at times it often ended with either mistakes leading to goals or fans screaming for players to hoof it forward because there players on the ball didn't have the nouse to know what to do with it when confronted by a wall of opposition players.

I don't think he'd have us top of the long ball table though!

Note on the above, Brentford also play a fair amount of long balls but a lot more of them reach a target!

Teams on our level in Bournemouth and Sheffield United have similarly low success rate but haven't attempted as many.

Has that “long ball league” got Man City in third? Alright then!

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Has that “long ball league” got Man City in third? Alright then!

Yep. Cos it’s sorted by actual number of long passes, have a look at cities total of other passes. Have a look at the completion of long passes - near 70% so I’m guessing these are switches. 
 

city are that dominant that their pass numbers are just so much higher in general. 

[Shukes]

Their goalkeeper plays more accurate long balls than all of our defence.

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Shukes said:

Their goalkeeper plays more accurate long balls than all of our defence.

So does ours I bet. 

[Palfy]

All that matters about passing stats is the amount attempted and the number completed more than the distance. Brentford have attempted far more passes than us which could mean they have more possession than us in games, they have also successfully completed more passes than us which could mean they have more ability when in possession of the ball than us. So if passing stats are going to determine the outcome of this game we are going to lose, but the reality is those numbers will mean nothing when it comes to the next game and when whistle goes we have every chance as them to win this game, so pass that around

[Matt Tiger]

Finally got a result that underlying numbers have said we should’ve earned much earlier this season.

I still just can’t comprehend why anyone would be falling to sack Dyche. Not saying I love him but, again, these projects take time, and we haven’t given a single manager enough time to evaluate them since probably Martínez which was 7 damn years ago. Total lunacy.

[FairWooney]

On 22/09/2023 at 19:44, StevO said:

Has that “long ball league” got Man City in third? Alright then!

They are probably top in short and medium passes, if you have that much possession and pass the ball around like they do you will also clock up a fair few long balls.

Difference when they play a long ball is it's not a hopeful punt but a pass aimed at a player making a smart run (Walker for Foden's goal on Saturday).

 

[AnotherYank]

City is high on that list of long balls, but it's only 10% of their total attempts.  Almost 20% of our attempted passes are long balls.  There are only 8 clubs shown on that list, but 4 of them have completed more passes than we've attempted - including Fulham ffs.

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, AnotherYank said:

City is high on that list of long balls, but it's only 10% of their total attempts.  Almost 20% of our attempted passes are long balls.  There are only 8 clubs shown on that list, but 4 of them have completed more passes than we've attempted - including Fulham ffs.

Welcome to the pleasure dome. 

[StevO]

Last five games, winning three, draw one and lost one. Progress? 

[Matt]

14 minutes ago, StevO said:

Last five games, winning three, draw one and lost one. Progress? 

Patience paying off. 

[Romey 1878]

38 minutes ago, Matt said:

Patience paying off. 

Or not being a dick head is paying off.

Madness that there were calls to sack him. 

[Btay]

Fair play to him, hopefully puts an end to this Dyche 442 stigma as he tactically got it spot on.

[RuffRob]

I think the past couple of results are maybe a better reflection of how we have been playing this season and generally under Dyche. After the window, the squad is now probably more of a reflection of what he would like to be working with. 

Hard to count what happened last season as was it was well and truly backs against the wall for a weak squad (with DCL missing) and club in termoil from the moment he arrived. 

How nice it would be to go through at least one full season with the same manager and allowing him to develop a team over 3 or 4 transfer windows.

[Wall Writer]

He’s definitely earned some brownie points in the last two games.

We have a tendency to punt a few too many hopeful and ill-aimed balls forward, but maybe we can put that down to the team being in transition.

Obviously, if we keep this up, the energy and the creating (and putting away) chances then we’ll have a much better season than we have done recently.

I think we are still going to need to be lucky with injuries, or the lack thereof.

We’ve had two good performances and two good results. Now it’s the consistency over the next couple of games that I’ll be looking for.

Edit: I’ll add this as well. Although, I hope not to find us in this situation, I’ll be interested to see how we react to going behind. Have we got the mental strength to maintain belief in that situation.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Wall Writer

[RuffRob]

I think confidence is a massive thing - when a team has a bit of confidence, players want the ball, players what to get on the score sheet. A team low on confidence just simply struggle to execute any managers plan. Probably one of Dyche's toughest task it to get players confident, we are seeing some green shoots. Instead to making stupid mistakes you have a extra half yard and get stuck in defensivley, your head is up for farward balls rather than the safe ball sideways or backwards passing. 

If you want a couple of games at home to build from on the back of a couple of decent away wins - you can't ask for better than Luton or Bournmouth. Starting to looking forward to a game as opposed of seeing it as a potential banana skin, I am sure players will have a similar feel good factor. 

 

[Matt]

World exclusive! Manager given time to implement some ideas with a full squad available, results dramatically improve! Click here for the top 10 best reactionary bullshit posts! You won't believe number 7!

I should start a *news.co.uk site

[Bailey]

Football fans are so funny.

Bad couple of games, sack the manager, put the player in the reserves.

Good couple of games, glory times are coming, player is back and sign him up to a long term contract. 

[Hafnia]

I’ll keep my powder dry before proclaiming dyche is up to the job, just like I did before saying he’s not the right man for the job. 
 

let’s be fuckin clear…. His win rate was 26.1% with a very good sample size of games. Only Mike walker has a worse win rate. 
 

long may this resurgence continue 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

I’ll keep my powder dry before proclaiming dyche is up to the job, just like I did before saying he’s not the right man for the job. 
 

let’s be fuckin clear…. His win rate was 26.1% with a very good sample size of games. Only Mike walker has a worse win rate. 
 

long may this resurgence continue 

Let's be fuckin clear... he came into a shitshow of a club with no actual forward/striker 9 months ago. Once he had one, we've won 2 games and should have 2 more if not for officials and keepers. 

He joined 30th January 2023. Played 26, won 8, drawn 7 and lost 11 which is a win ratio of 30.77%. Nearly all that time with a toxic environment, no striker, no transfer budget to speak of, etc. Etc.

If anyone thinks any other manager could've turned us around in 26 games, you need that bump on the head seeing to.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Let's be fuckin clear... he came into a shitshow of a club with no actual forward/striker 9 months ago. Once he had one, we've won 2 games and should have 2 more if not for officials and keepers. 

He joined 30th January 2023. Played 26, won 8, drawn 7 and lost 11 which is a win ratio of 30.77%. Nearly all that time with a toxic environment, no striker, no transfer budget to speak of, etc. Etc.

If anyone thinks any other manager could've turned us around in 26 games, you need that bump on the head seeing to.

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion even those who you may disagree with or consider to have had a bump on the head, even those who like gloating and only chime in when things are going well, but either way no one on here is bigger or better than anyone else even if they may think so. So excuse me whilst I go to the doctors to have my bump looked at, if I’m lucky enough he might tell me it’s a brain which will put me in a very advantageous position than most

[Wiggytop]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Let's be fuckin clear... he came into a shitshow of a club with no actual forward/striker 9 months ago. Once he had one, we've won 2 games and should have 2 more if not for officials and keepers. 

He joined 30th January 2023. Played 26, won 8, drawn 7 and lost 11 which is a win ratio of 30.77%. Nearly all that time with a toxic environment, no striker, no transfer budget to speak of, etc. Etc.

If anyone thinks any other manager could've turned us around in 26 games, you need that bump on the head seeing to.

I think that’s well put and shows that he is doing a decent job, 11 defeats in 26 isn’t great but from where it shows progress, let’s hope today adds to the win ratio.

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Everyone’s entitled to an opinion even those who you may disagree with or consider to have had a bump on the head, even those who like gloating and only chime in when things are going well, but either way no one on here is bigger or better than anyone else even if they may think so. So excuse me whilst I go to the doctors to have my bump looked at, if I’m lucky enough he might tell me it’s a brain which will put me in a very advantageous position than most

Of course people are entitled to an opinion. But opinions that are not backed up by facts are worthless.

This isn't about gloating. It's about portraying the reality vs an interpretation. 

Edit: and as I've got in my sig, "context is for kings"...

[Matt]

18 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

I think that’s well put and shows that he is doing a decent job, 11 defeats in 26 isn’t great but from where it shows progress, let’s hope today adds to the win ratio.

And that's the point. I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy, I'm saying it's massive progress vs the last 2-3 years. More shots on target, more interceptions, a solid young spine of 20-26yr olds, less goals being conceded... it's solid, if somewhat unspectacular, positive progress. 

[Bailey]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

And that's the point. I'm not saying everything is fine and dandy, I'm saying it's massive progress vs the last 2-3 years. More shots on target, more interceptions, a solid young spine of 20-26yr olds, less goals being conceded... it's solid, if somewhat unspectacular, positive progress. 

I would add that it is probably the type of progress you would expect from Dyche (and Thelwell). He came in on the back of the side losing some really easy games and then faced a really tough run which included wins against top of the league Arsenal and a buoyant Brighton. 

There has been a clear improvement in performances under Dyche compared to what came before him. A majority of the players have also improved under him. McNeil and Doucoure are the obvious ones, where it has been like watching a different player, and a key thing for me is that those crap players in the squad that will make mistakes are making less of them and it is leading to fewer goals against. 

I think there will always be a limit to where Dyche can take a club but he provide structure and stability which is absolutely key for us at the moment. It feels like him and Thelwell are on the same page too which is really positive for the future. There is still a very long way to go and there will be a lot of bumps in the road but I am just hoping for a nice boring season of 40+ points. 

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

Of course people are entitled to an opinion. But opinions that are not backed up by facts are worthless.

This isn't about gloating. It's about portraying the reality vs an interpretation. 

Edit: and as I've got in my sig, "context is for kings"...

The facts and the stats 2 games ago made his record the worst of any manager I believe I’m right in saying in our recent history, I don’t know what other facts there are that make that record not admissible. He had the same players has Lamps did and he got the sack. I do get that managers need time but the first 4 league games of the season and lucky win against Doncaster were very good grounds for concern and criticism. 

[Matt]

Just now, Palfy said:

The facts and the stats 2 games ago made his record the worst of any manager I believe I’m right in saying in our recent history, I don’t know what other facts there are that make that record not admissible. He had the same players has Lamps did and he got the sack. I do get that managers need time but the first 4 league games of the season and lucky win against Doncaster were very good grounds for concern and criticism. 

Context is for King's, Palfy. The stats showed more shots on target etc etc. If you can't see the stark difference between Lampard, who was a lot more charismatic but also more inept, and Dyche then there's no point continuing really. 

[Shukes]

Everton have averaged 14.2 shots per game so far this season.

Their highest since 2013-14.

[Wiggytop]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The facts and the stats 2 games ago made his record the worst of any manager I believe I’m right in saying in our recent history, I don’t know what other facts there are that make that record not admissible. He had the same players has Lamps did and he got the sack. I do get that managers need time but the first 4 league games of the season and lucky win against Doncaster were very good grounds for concern and criticism. 

Gordon left in Jan, so that’s one down.

Not having a fit striker hurt us badly in the first 4 games, chances were being created, particularly against Fulham and Wolves, we lost all shape when DCL took the he’d injury at Villa. 
 

We have seen improvement, long may it continue starting this afternoon. I’m just about to leave for the ground now