Moise Kean

[Shukes]

28 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

I like DCL but this isn't a good argument. By this logic you wouldn't play Ronaldo over DCL because we've gotten results with him in the team. It's possible to consider individual performances and not just look at a scoreline. 

That’s the sign of a good manager bough isn’t it? 

If your on a run of wins, you dont just change it to bring in a bigger name as that could disrupt the results.

Personally I would play Niasse in goals if he didn’t concede a goal all season. Or would you rather play a big name keeper that conceded a shit load? 

I know that’s exaggerating a bit, or a lot, ok  loads. But the point stands. If we’re on a good streak of results, what’s more important? Keep it going or play a different striker because he isn’t scoring, and risk ending that run?

what if we drop DCL and play Tosun for example. Tosun scores three games on the trot, but we lose each one 1-2. So then we try Kean. Kean bangs in a hat trick each game in thoroughly exciting 3-4 losses. 

Im all for Kean starting... when he is ready. For the moment I would be happy with DCL as long as the results keep coming. This is real football, not FIFA 2020.

[Finn balor]

Good points shukes 

[Bailey]

18 hours ago, Finn balor said:

I give up. How many games do you want to give DCl? Really? I’m interested 20 games and he scores 3 at best?

I think he is on a 8 or 9 game goalless streak. Like others have said though the bigger problem is that he isn't getting any chances either. I don't think he had a shot at the weekend and I don't remember him having the ball in the box bar the cruyff turn in the box where he fell over (crap ball back to him from Siggy).

16 hours ago, pete0 said:

They played the ball to his feet because he kept dropping out of position, he drifted back and to the left. I don't think that was tactics as Sigurdssen shouted at him and was noticeably annoyed. 

As much as Kean looks to be a potential world beater his off ball has a lot to improve going from yesterday. 

This makes no sense. Poor off the ball yet he kept picking up the ball. You don't have to be moving to find space. 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

I like DCL but this isn't a good argument. By this logic you wouldn't play Ronaldo over DCL because we've gotten results with him in the team. It's possible to consider individual performances and not just look at a scoreline. 

By logic you would compare Moies Kean to Ronaldo. 

[SpartyBlue]

1 hour ago, Aidan said:

By logic you would compare Moies Kean to Ronaldo. 

You’re making a point that if a team gets good results you shouldn’t change the players. I’m giving you an example of why that isn’t necessarily the case. It’s great that DCL does a job for the team but his 1st responsibility is to score. If he can’t do that regularly and we have a better option than I don’t think he deserves a spot regardless of how many points we get. Besides, I don’t think anyone is arguing we are playing great at this point, particularly up front.

[SpartyBlue]

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

That’s the sign of a good manager bough isn’t it? 

If your on a run of wins, you dont just change it to bring in a bigger name as that could disrupt the results.

Personally I would play Niasse in goals if he didn’t concede a goal all season. Or would you rather play a big name keeper that conceded a shit load? 

I know that’s exaggerating a bit, or a lot, ok  loads. But the point stands. If we’re on a good streak of results, what’s more important? Keep it going or play a different striker because he isn’t scoring, and risk ending that run?

what if we drop DCL and play Tosun for example. Tosun scores three games on the trot, but we lose each one 1-2. So then we try Kean. Kean bangs in a hat trick each game in thoroughly exciting 3-4 losses. 

Im all for Kean starting... when he is ready. For the moment I would be happy with DCL as long as the results keep coming. This is real football, not FIFA 2020.

It has nothing to do with anyone being a “name”. A manager should play the team he thinks gives us the best chance to get the points.

I’ve never bought into this idea that you shouldn’t change a team if you are getting results. It’s a simplistic view. For one,  it ignores that different opponents may require different set ups. For two, it’s arbitrary. If a striker misses several easy chances and we win 1-0 it’s madness to say that he needs to stay in there because of the result. 

You seem to be making an assumption that if we are getting good results than everyone who is starting is equally responsible and so their individual performances can be overlooked. It is possible for us to win games with DCL (or anyone else) not performing well just as it’s possible to lose and still have certain players do a good job. I would hope Silva takes a more nuanced approach and doesn’t stick to an inferior lineup because of what amounts to superstition. 

Your example is baffling. If you were manager you’d take out a striker who was scoring a hat trick every game because we weren’t getting wins? Why on earth would you assign blame to the striker in that case? You’d create an environment where whether a player starts or not has little to do with how he performs. Beat Lincoln City 5-4 and everyone stays. Lose @ Man City  1-0 and change out the whole squad. 

[Palfy]

6 hours ago, Aidan said:

Look at our form over the last 10 games, there is no viable reason to drop him.

Of course there is we had the majority of the play 1st half yet our striker offers nothing when it comes to scoring, then 2nd half we are hanging on for the point. 

Then Watford who got hammered the week before at home 3-0, we score an early goal have all the possession 1st half, then again in the 2nd half we are hanging on again, DCL no attempts on target again I personally feel the team to a degree are carrying him, once we get a striker who can score it will become more evident. 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

This makes no sense. Poor off the ball yet he kept picking up the ball. You don't have to be moving to find space. 

He picked it up as he was dropping deep to get it. Similar to Rooney and Saha who were guilty of it at times. 

[Shukes]

9 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

It has nothing to do with anyone being a “name”. A manager should play the team he thinks gives us the best chance to get the points.

I’ve never bought into this idea that you shouldn’t change a team if you are getting results. It’s a simplistic view. For one,  it ignores that different opponents may require different set ups. For two, it’s arbitrary. If a striker misses several easy chances and we win 1-0 it’s madness to say that he needs to stay in there because of the result. 

You seem to be making an assumption that if we are getting good results than everyone who is starting is equally responsible and so their individual performances can be overlooked. It is possible for us to win games with DCL (or anyone else) not performing well just as it’s possible to lose and still have certain players do a good job. I would hope Silva takes a more nuanced approach and doesn’t stick to an inferior lineup because of what amounts to superstition. 

Your example is baffling. If you were manager you’d take out a striker who was scoring a hat trick every game because we weren’t getting wins? Why on earth would you assign blame to the striker in that case? You’d create an environment where whether a player starts or not has little to do with how he performs. Beat Lincoln City 5-4 and everyone stays. Lose @ Man City  1-0 and change out the whole squad. 

I understand your point. Not sure why it’s baffling to understand mine though. It’s very simple and you said it perfectly in your opening sentence.

A manager should play the team he thinks gives us the best chance to get points.

Aaand he’s been picking DCL. 

As I pointed out, it’s not just about one player, it’s about a rounded team. Team being the big factor in this. If you have a team that’s set up to provide a certain player with goals, and the team gets less goals than when the team is set up for several to score.... then again I would go for the team set up for several to score. It’s simplistic to think that adding a player who can score 20 goals a season to a team that scored 60, would net you 80 goals. (Not accusing you of this by the way) 

Like I said, I want to see Kean, I really do. But I also think the manager is correct the way he is managing him at the moment. Especially as we don't need to throw him in at the deep end yet.

 

Someone pointed out that they don’t think DCL is the type to take one chance and score. Yet they just witnessed Kean get his first shots off target. He is a very young lad and like has happened so many times before.... his confidence could easily be smashed by throwing him in the deep end and watching him sink. Let him grow into the premier league, let him grow into the team, let him understand what it is to be a premier league player.

Mainly, look after him.

[Shukes]

22 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Of course there is we had the majority of the play 1st half yet our striker offers nothing when it comes to scoring, then 2nd half we are hanging on for the point. 

Then Watford who got hammered the week before at home 3-0, we score an early goal have all the possession 1st half, then again in the 2nd half we are hanging on again, DCL no attempts on target again I personally feel the team to a degree are carrying him, once we get a striker who can score it will become more evident. 

Palfy. I am sure you said somewhere you coach football. Surely you understand that you need to set up the team to play to certain players strengths?

For example, it didn’t take a premier league manager to notice that when Kean came on, we visibly moved back ten yards. This was so we could defend in numbers to protect our lead, which then draws them out, allowing us to hit them on the counter attack. Which we did.

Before that, we played further up the pitch, which pushed them back and meant the doubles up on our forward line regularly. 

Do you think playing Kean from the start, we would have sat back and tried to hit them on the counter?

 

edit: Dont mean that to sound like an attack by the way. Just seeing if I’m explaining my point correctly and want to hear your views on it. 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Palfy. I am sure you said somewhere you coach football. Surely you understand that you need to set up the team to play to certain players strengths?

For example, it didn’t take a premier league manager to notice that when Kean came on, we visibly moved back ten yards. This was so we could defend in numbers to protect our lead, which then draws them out, allowing us to hit them on the counter attack. Which we did.

Before that, we played further up the pitch, which pushed them back and meant the doubles up on our forward line regularly. 

Do you think playing Kean from the start, we would have sat back and tried to hit them on the counter?

What are you saying that if we started with Kean we would have sat back from the start, we got pushed back and were hanging on because we didn’t turn our 1st half dominants into goals at Palace and home to Watford, so you advocate a striker who doesn’t score who doesn’t have an attempt on goal who doesn’t get assists. 

I we had a striker who scored we could but games to bed early, you don’t need a coaching badge to know that except in your case. 

[Shukes]

41 minutes ago, Palfy said:

What are you saying that if we started with Kean we would have sat back from the start, we got pushed back and were hanging on because we didn’t turn our 1st half dominants into goals at Palace and home to Watford, so you advocate a striker who doesn’t score who doesn’t have an attempt on goal who doesn’t get assists. 

I we had a striker who scored we could but games to bed early, you don’t need a coaching badge to know that except in your case. 

I’m saying the exact opposite. The manager set us up to push them back and utilise DCL and Gylfi. This wouldn't have worked with Kean up top. 

When Kean came on we were getting pushed back and we’re hanging on. Kean changed that by allowing us to sit and hit them on the break.

Surprised you can’t see that, it was blatantly obvious. Basics. Must be my coaching badge allows me to see it  

 

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I’m saying the exact opposite. The manager set us up to push them back and utilise DCL and Gylfi. This wouldn't have worked with Kean up top. 

When Kean came on we were getting pushed back and we’re hanging on. Kean changed that by allowing us to sit and hit them on the break.

Surprised you can’t see that, it was blatantly obvious. Basics. Must be my coaching badge allows me to see it  

 

I’ve said before you need to go to Specsavers. 

If anyone is equipped to hit teams on the break then it’s surly DCL, Kean was brought on to replace an ineffective DCL who contributed very little. 

[Shukes]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I’ve said before you need to go to Specsavers. 

If anyone is equipped to hit teams on the break then it’s surly DCL, Kean was brought on to replace an ineffective DCL who contributed very little. 

Normally I would agree to disagree, but this time your wrong, anyone watching that match could clearly see. Your about as spot on as your G... opinion here. 

You can show it simply though. Just need to show a simple highlight with DCL running at a lone defender. That would show that the we played the same while DCL was on as we did when Kean came on. Easy eh! 

(Save yourself the time Palf, you won’t find any)

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

You’re making a point that if a team gets good results you shouldn’t change the players. I’m giving you an example of why that isn’t necessarily the case. It’s great that DCL does a job for the team but his 1st responsibility is to score. If he can’t do that regularly and we have a better option than I don’t think he deserves a spot regardless of how many points we get. Besides, I don’t think anyone is arguing we are playing great at this point, particularly up front.

I'm making the point of let's stick with Dom until Kean is bedded into the team. 

So many people calling for his head after 2 games because we've signed a new exciting striker. It's not football manager, we have to be patient with Kean he is 19 years old and isnt used to the premier league and likely doesn't speak much English. 

DCL has given his all these past couple of years, but he isn't going to be the striker we want him to be. That doesn't mean we should hang him out to dry at the first opportunity. 

Dom has been doing his job and we have been getting results. Should he score more? Absolutely. Are we one of the most in form teams in the league since the end of last season? Absolutely. Why change a system that is working because we've signed a new player? 

Patience

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Of course there is we had the majority of the play 1st half yet our striker offers nothing when it comes to scoring, then 2nd half we are hanging on for the point. 

Then Watford who got hammered the week before at home 3-0, we score an early goal have all the possession 1st half, then again in the 2nd half we are hanging on again, DCL no attempts on target again I personally feel the team to a degree are carrying him, once we get a striker who can score it will become more evident. 

We had a striker who did score in Lukaku and people were still not happy. 

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, Aidan said:

We had a striker who did score in Lukaku and people were still not happy. 

I was very happy with Lukaku if you go back through the thread when he was here you’re find only 1 or 2 who weren’t. 

We’ve needed to replace his goals since he left and we haven’t, Tosun and Sandro fell short as has DCL. 

So is it no wonder when you get a new striker in you want to see if he can do the job, because the current incumbent can’t. 

[Palfy]

46 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Normally I would agree to disagree, but this time your wrong, anyone watching that match could clearly see. Your about as spot on as your G... opinion here. 

You can show it simply though. Just need to show a simple highlight with DCL running at a lone defender. That would show that the we played the same while DCL was on as we did when Kean came on. Easy eh! 

(Save yourself the time Palf, you won’t find any)

Not a fucking scooby do what your on about and I doubt you know yourself

[barryj]

He did look a little tired at the end of his cameo on Saturday.

[Palfy]

25 minutes ago, Aidan said:

We had a striker who did score in Lukaku and people were still not happy. 

This is crazy shit your 2 likes both rated Lukaku, I could only find 1 who was Haf I didn’t rate him, some more jumped on that when he started his 2nd season at United. 

So could you 3 wise men please enlighten me who these people were because I cannot find them. 

[Aidan]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

This is crazy shit your 2 likes both rated Lukaku, I could only find 1 who was Haf I didn’t rate him, some more jumped on that when he started his 2nd season at United. 

So could you 3 wise men please enlighten me who these people were because I cannot find them. 

I wish I didn't mention him! 

Its besides my point, I just don't want to rush Kean in that's all. 

[Shukes]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

Not a fucking scooby do what your on about and I doubt you know yourself

Do I ever?

[sydneyneil]

The argument that we are winning so we should stick with DCL is a reactive way of selecting a team. A more proactive approach would be to see that we are lacking penetration in the final third and we need something to change. It's like when we are playing well, creating chances but we aren't quite scoring and people say "we are going to give someone a hiding soon...." So we leave the team as it is knowing results will ultimately change. This is like the opposite of that.

Anyone who is watching us right now can see we are lacking goals. If you have the main striker not even getting himself in positions then his position comes under scrutiny regardless of how hard he works, or how professional and nice of a bloke he seems. Silva will know that DCL isn't the answer and will quite rightly nurture Kean into the starting line up. However, we are always going to be one scoring blank away from people wanting him in the starting line up asap.

Some players just have a knack of making things happen. Anyone remember Daniel Amokachi? Not the greatest of players by any stretch but did he have a knack of getting in scoring positions and turning drab games into a load of chances.  Hopefully Kean is like that but with better finishing...

[nutmegwolf203]

2 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

Some players just have a knack of making things happen. Anyone remember Daniel Amokachi? Not the greatest of players by any stretch but did he have a knack of getting in scoring positions and turning drab games into a load of chances.  Hopefully Kean is like that but with better finishing...

I think I read somewhere that Kean was a big fan of Obafemi Martins, which I personally think is awesome. That's as dynamic as it gets. I always thought he was really fun to watch and I can see some similarities in approach. 

[nutmegwolf203]

I hope he's given as much time as he needs to get used to things

[MikeO]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49423487

[Sibdane]

 

51 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49423487

I can't stand Raiola, but I'm at least happy that he has a good relationship with Kenwright and Brands. He represents some of the best players, and having him on our side can only be a good thing.

I think...

[StevO]

54 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49423487

Good read. I like the three tiered plan for new players and Brands making a detailed presentation to get them involved. Love that level of detail. 

[markjazzbassist]

I remember the lukaku deal when Raoila said kenwright was a gentleman and absolute pleasure to work with.  Brands sounds like a worldie in that article.  

 

I agree Ste I love that 3 tier plan, very smart.

[Finn balor]

Cracker of an article