Longest Thread! for Everton Discussion

[Newty82]

...if any clubs can learn anything of us & Forrest vs the likes of Citeh...

Don't admit guilt!

[Quinn31]

5 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

If it is today, which I hope it will be, then it should be pretty soon.

I'm expecting between 1 and 3 points to be deducted, but who knows!

like an oracle. The deduction is exactly between 1 and 3 points. 

 

I'm less fussed about 2 points being deducted this go around than I am the process in general. It's just been one giant circus.

[Hafnia]

Premier league pushed for 5 points, 17 points they have pushed for in total. We have a similar breach total to forest over the two breaches - yet we got double the points.

this committee actually allowed the war in Ukraine to be used as mitigation..... yet the other panel and appeal panel didn't? 
 

farce 

[RuffRob]

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2024/04/08/eef5f482-4d3a-473a-9e38-26f995059377/Premier-League-v-Everton-Decision-FY23.pdf

I have read it as -

3 points deduction for a breach plus 2 point deduction for the magnitute of the breach, deemed 'modest' rather than signficant (£16.6m). So before mitigation factors we have been given 5 point deduction. (Paragraph 180 then 187)

less 2 points becasue of the fact we have already been penilised in over part of this 3 year accounting period (para 206) and

less 1 point for an early plea to PSR breach (Para 260)

So final deduction of 2 points.

We got no consideration for the fact the USM sponsership go pulled due to UK sanctions of Russians or any other financial hit like anything argued towards the stadium. 

We got no consideration for 'exceptional co-operation' - our co-operation level was the 'level expected'. 

We also go no consideration from a sustainable 'New Recruitment Stratergy' that has been implemented at the club.  

 

[Sibdane]

The last few years of being a supporter has been an absolute drain on my love for the game. I hate conspiracy theories, but I can't feel anything other than we're absolutely being targeted by the PL. The inconsistent nature of these penalties is so laughable and obvious. 

I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that an appeal will knock it down to zero. I still think we'll stay up even if the 2 points stand though. 

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Two points apparently. We're appealing, quite rightly.

https://x.com/ALANMYERSMEDIA/status/1777320212229935188

Well that’s better than I expected as you can see from my post above. 
You could have been more considerate and posted this half hour earlier, then I wouldn’t have made my earlier comments

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, RuffRob said:

when you look back to forests 4 points, I think we have already been harshly treated with the 6 we have already had taken off us. 

It will be a real kick in the teeth to loose more points this season.

We should be sitting in a relatively relaxed position of 35 points with 7 games to go. 

Instead we are on a very uncomfortable 29 points, sweating on us having the 4 points earn taken this past week off us. 

1) The commision have a straight forward get out clause to give use zero points this time around - 6 points penalty (less 4 becasue we have been penilised for 2/3) plus 2 point off for being helpful (as Forest go). So 0 points deduction. Given we got a harsh 6 points last time, then a generouse 0 this time around would be fairer balance overall. A outside possibility, but I don't see this happening 

2) or 6 points (less to 2 points for being helpful), so 4  the same as Forest. Then factor in the 2/3 of the period already having been punished, so 1/3 being - 1.22 points - do they round to 1 point or take the 0.22 as a point as well - A case for 1 or possibly 2.

3) The give us exactely the same as Forst - substancial beach but we worked with the PL and they take no notice of the fact we have already been punished for two of the three years - 4 points - this would be very harsh.

4)All of our disclaimers on why the account are over this period (lost sponsorship due to Ukraine, Stadium costs etc) are upheld by the commission and we are found to be exhonorated of the charge in this accounting period. 0 points.

My gut feeling is we will get 1 point deduction based on arguement 2) and would only get 0 points if 4) us upheld. 

 

 

Nearly spot on Rob fair play mate

[RuffRob]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Nearly spot on Rob fair play mate

I would have though we should have got more than 2 points knocked off due to 'double jeaperdy' or maybe 1 also knocked off for the clubs intent to reduce spending on player trading and wages along with the Ukraine war effect. 

Para 100.5 suggest Everton would have taken a 1 point deduction. There was plenty of ways the Commison could have got the sanction to 1 point. We would have accepted this.  

I am pretty disappointed with 2 as I saw that at the maximum we would probabley get. 

[RuffRob]

4 hours ago, Hafnia said:

I'm thinking we get 4 points now - only reason being is that last night our odds on relegation were 7/1 - dropped to 6/1 this morning..... 

it suggests a fair whack of money has gone on us. 

The odds I have been following had us at 5/1 before this afternoons announcment - and now we are 4/1. That would suggest the 2 point deduction was on the harsh side.

[Sev]

Copied from The BBC Sport pages.

 

Everton's points penalty hurts the club at the worst time, according to former Toffees chief executive Keith Wyness.

A two-point deduction for breaching profit and sustainability rules has dropped the club to 16th in the Premier League.

They are two points above the relegation zone having already been hit with a six-point punishment, reduced from 10 after an appeal for an earlier breach.

Nottingham Forest, 17th in the table, were hit with a four-point deduction last month and are appealing.

"These clouds have been hanging over Forest and Everton and this is a time when you have players deciding if they are going to move on, it’s the time when they make these decisions with their agent," said Wyness, who was Everton's chief executive between 2004 and 2008.

"This goes way beyond a points deduction of 'two points and that’s all it is'. It impacts the club in so many ways. You can’t get sponsors to commit because they don’t know what division they will be in next year, you can’t get players to commit.

"The impact goes way beyond what should be considered a fair penalty for a breach."

 

And I fully agree. The psychological factor cannot be neglected.

[Gwlad]

14 minutes ago, Sev said:

Copied from The BBC Sport pages.

And I fully agree. The psychological factor cannot be neglected.

Asolutely this.

[Trigger]

3 hours ago, RuffRob said:

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2024/04/08/eef5f482-4d3a-473a-9e38-26f995059377/Premier-League-v-Everton-Decision-FY23.pdf

I have read it as -

3 points deduction for a breach plus 2 point deduction for the magnitute of the breach, deemed 'modest' rather than signficant (£16.6m). So before mitigation factors we have been given 5 point deduction. (Paragraph 180 then 187)

less 2 points becasue of the fact we have already been penilised in over part of this 3 year accounting period (para 206) and

less 1 point for an early plea to PSR breach (Para 260)

So final deduction of 2 points.

We got no consideration for the fact the USM sponsership go pulled due to UK sanctions of Russians or any other financial hit like anything argued towards the stadium. 

We got no consideration for 'exceptional co-operation' - our co-operation level was the 'level expected'. 

We also go no consideration from a sustainable 'New Recruitment Stratergy' that has been implemented at the club.  

 

Wow! I thought they just got a pair of Dice out, rolled them and went with result and then laughed and slapped themselves on the back about what a great deliberation they had as they no doubt got a big cheque for their work as well!

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, Trigger said:

Wow! I thought they just got a pair of Dice out, rolled them and went with result and then laughed and slapped themselves on the back about what a great deliberation they had as they no doubt got a big cheque for their work as well!

Think you might just've hit on a more rational way of doing it!

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Sev said:

Copied from The BBC Sport pages.

 

Everton's points penalty hurts the club at the worst time, according to former Toffees chief executive Keith Wyness.

A two-point deduction for breaching profit and sustainability rules has dropped the club to 16th in the Premier League.

They are two points above the relegation zone having already been hit with a six-point punishment, reduced from 10 after an appeal for an earlier breach.

Nottingham Forest, 17th in the table, were hit with a four-point deduction last month and are appealing.

"These clouds have been hanging over Forest and Everton and this is a time when you have players deciding if they are going to move on, it’s the time when they make these decisions with their agent," said Wyness, who was Everton's chief executive between 2004 and 2008.

"This goes way beyond a points deduction of 'two points and that’s all it is'. It impacts the club in so many ways. You can’t get sponsors to commit because they don’t know what division they will be in next year, you can’t get players to commit.

"The impact goes way beyond what should be considered a fair penalty for a breach."

 

And I fully agree. The psychological factor cannot be neglected.

Not to mention the 10 point deduction we had hanging over us for a large chunk of the season too.

[Romey 1878]

4 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Premier league pushed for 5 points, 17 points they have pushed for in total. We have a similar breach total to forest over the two breaches - yet we got double the points.

this committee actually allowed the war in Ukraine to be used as mitigation..... yet the other panel and appeal panel didn't? 
 

farce 

It's all a fucking joke. Everything that's happened since this whole debacle started doesn't make sense. It's nonsensical.

I'm glad we're appealing and dragging the PL through the mud for longer. Absolute knob heads.

[Newty82]

It's gonna be absolutely barmy if the season finishes with these appeals still to happen.

Imagine 'the best league in the world' potentially not knowing who's bring relegated at the end of the season?!

[Romey 1878]

 

[Romey 1878]

2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

It's gonna be absolutely barmy if the season finishes with these appeals still to happen.

Imagine 'the best league in the world' potentially not knowing who's bring relegated at the end of the season?!

I fucking hate them and I hope us, Forest, Leicester (and whoever they decide to target next while they avoid the big fish of City and Chelsea) bring the whole thing tumbling down.

[Newty82]

10 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

That's fuckin madness.

There's too many contradictions between the 4 hearings (Evertons 3 and Forrests 1) for this not to be taken further.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Premier league pushed for 5 points, 17 points they have pushed for in total. We have a similar breach total to forest over the two breaches - yet we got double the points.

this committee actually allowed the war in Ukraine to be used as mitigation..... yet the other panel and appeal panel didn't? 
 

farce 

It is a complete farce and fiasco. And still City get away with massive financial violations. The fact that two point deductions are applied in the same season ought to mean a legal challenge is warranted. 

[Romey 1878]

2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

That's fuckin madness.

There's too many contradictions between the 4 hearings (Evertons 3 and Forrests 1) for this not to be taken further.

It's absolutely maddening. We cannot let them get away with it.

[Romey 1878]

 

[Newty82]

Quite a telling paragraph from the clubs statement..

"Everton remains committed to working collaboratively with the League on all matters relating to PSR but is extremely concerned by the inconsistency of different commissions in respect of points deductions applied.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Newty82 said:

Quite a telling paragraph from the clubs statement..

"Everton remains committed to working collaboratively with the League on all matters relating to PSR but is extremely concerned by the inconsistency of different commissions in respect of points deductions applied.

They've been as consistent as the decisions their shite referees make on a weekly basis.

[Btay]

Well I’m guttered to see us lose points but that’s more to do with our recent poor run than the actual points. Another 4/6 points picked up in that run and we wouldn’t be stressed right now about relegation.

Earlier I said based off the 6 points deduction over 3 years that this deduction should be 2 given that 2/3 years have been accounted for.

However, when reading the reports and looking at the process - it’s an absolute farce. Asking for 5 points originally. They have wanted a total of 15 points off us this year, disgusting & absolutely out of proportion.

We do have to accept that we made our bed with the 2 charges this year given the dispensation given last season however, this second should never have eventuated due to double jeopardy & the actual structure of the charges.

I would have little issue with this is teams from 1st-20th are dealt with the same merit, however they clearly are not.

This is a time to rally together though, it’s been a tough couple of seasons at the foot of the table but staying up after all this is a massive fuck you to the PL. One that they undoubtedly deserve.

[Romey 1878]

I am 100% convinced that this all started when the sly 6 decided they were going to destroy the English footballing pyramid to enrich themselves and our club was the loudest voice in calling for them to be punished heavily.

Richard Masters was handpicked by the red cartel of United, the shite and Arsenal so it's no coincidence that after going hard for them publicly that their lapdog is going after us now.

[MikeO]

28 minutes ago, Btay said:

Asking for 5 points originally. They have wanted a total of 15 points off us this year, disgusting & absolutely out of proportion.

They wanted twelve first time around, so they were actually looking for seventeen in total.

[Hafnia]

59 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I am 100% convinced that this all started when the sly 6 decided they were going to destroy the English footballing pyramid to enrich themselves and our club was the loudest voice in calling for them to be punished heavily.

Richard Masters was handpicked by the red cartel of United, the shite and Arsenal so it's no coincidence that after going hard for them publicly that their lapdog is going after us now.

Yep. Plus the fact that our fans have ridiculed the smug looking prick at every opportunity means he's very unhappy that us plebs have the audacity to fight back. 

[Btay]

5 hours ago, MikeO said:

They wanted twelve first time around, so they were actually looking for seventeen in total.

Apologies I thought it was 10. Disgusting & completely irrational.

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Btay said:

Well I’m guttered to see us lose points but that’s more to do with our recent poor run than the actual points. Another 4/6 points picked up in that run and we wouldn’t be stressed right now about relegation.

Earlier I said based off the 6 points deduction over 3 years that this deduction should be 2 given that 2/3 years have been accounted for.

However, when reading the reports and looking at the process - it’s an absolute farce. Asking for 5 points originally. They have wanted a total of 15 points off us this year, disgusting & absolutely out of proportion.

We do have to accept that we made our bed with the 2 charges this year given the dispensation given last season however, this second should never have eventuated due to double jeopardy & the actual structure of the charges.

I would have little issue with this is teams from 1st-20th are dealt with the same merit, however they clearly are not.

This is a time to rally together though, it’s been a tough couple of seasons at the foot of the table but staying up after all this is a massive fuck you to the PL. One that they undoubtedly deserve.

Exactly this, let’s now channel our anger into coming together and galvanising our strengths to beat the drop and stick to fingers up to the PL, as the saying goes don’t get angry get even, let the higher hierarchy of the club fight an appeal, let the team and fans fight to win every point available to us before the end of the season.