Cuco Martina

[pete0]

Had Baines put in the same performance people would be giving him a solid 7, maybe 8, out of 10. He only played apart in conceding one goal and that was because his teammate let him down. Only problem is his past performances show the one(+)  mistake happens every week.  

[London Blue]

28 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Had Baines put in the same performance people would be giving him a solid 7, maybe 8, out of 10. He only played apart in conceding one goal and that was because his teammate let him down. Only problem is his past performances show the one(+)  mistake happens every week.  

Anybody who put in that level of performance would have got a 4 maybe 5 out of ten and been rightly slated.

The only person who let Coco down in conceeding the goal was.....

Coco

None of our players threw him to the floor, he was brushed off and fell to the floor himself.

[Bill]

I did notice that Gana stood and watched the tussle from two yards away,  and only made a move when Salah came away with the ball.  He was then wrong side of the man.

[Matt]

Just now, Bill said:

I did notice that Gana stood and watched the tussle from two yards away,  and only made a move when Salah came away with the ball.  He was then wrong side of the man.

Had he stepped in, Salah goes down and it's a pen. 

Honestly, I think people need to recognize a good goal by a player in form, rather than point fingers at our players

[StevO]

WAs a very good finish by Salah, my issue with Martina from the derby is he didn’t put one tackle in on him. He had chances to put a tackle in and left it. In a derby game we need to see a tackle, a bit of aggression and fight, but I didn’t see that from him. I don’t think his team mates did the way he got a telling off in the second half for pulling out of the 50/50 on the edge of his box. 

[pete0]

51 minutes ago, Matt said:

Had he stepped in, Salah goes down and it's a pen. 

Honestly, I think people need to recognize a good goal by a player in form, rather than point fingers at our players

If he's proactive he'd be in the right position before Salah runs in the box. As always he's behind the play and not cutting the angles. Keep goal side, you hear it shouted at kids every weekend. How Gana gets a game when he's so bad at the basics is beyond me. 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Had he stepped in, Salah goes down and it's a pen. 

Honestly, I think people need to recognize a good goal by a player in form, rather than point fingers at our players

Great point.

From a footballers point of view, your job would be show them the inside. The last thing you want is the attacker getting to the by line. Showing them the inside gives your teammates a chance to intercept.

Salah was shown the inside and managed to push Martina off. He times his gentle push just as Martina is on his heels, which he then loses balance. 

After that, Salahs class takes over. I really don’t think Gana was in any position to put a tackle in. If he does... it’s a penalty and down to ten men,,,, we get rolled over. 

[Shukes]

25 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If he's proactive he'd be in the right position before Salah runs in the box. As always he's behind the play and not cutting the angles. Keep goal side, you hear it shouted at kids every weekend. How Gana gets a game when he's so bad at the basics is beyond me. 

I agree he started in the wrong poaition to help his team mate. 

After that, it was a form player doing what he does.

[MikeO]

24 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If he's proactive he'd be in the right position before Salah runs in the box. As always he's behind the play and not cutting the angles. Keep goal side, you hear it shouted at kids every weekend. How Gana gets a game when he's so bad at the basics is beyond me. 

We were holding two lines of four, I'd argue that Williams should've reacted quicker to Cuco being done. And like Matt said if Gana had gone in Salah would've hit the deck and it'd be a pen and a red card (though I'm sure you'll argue we'd have been better with ten men rather than having him on the pitch).

[Shukes]

I just can’t wait till we have Cuco and Kone at the back. Will be worth it for Matts breakdown.

[markjazzbassist]

to his credit, he was playing against the top scorer in the league and most in form player in Salah.  Against Newcastle he won't have that, so his usual half-assed defending should be fine/enough.  i can't believe baines is out for that long.

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Great point.

From a footballers point of view, your job would be show them the inside. The last thing you want is the attacker getting to the by line. Showing them the inside gives your teammates a chance to intercept.

Salah was shown the inside and managed to push Martina off. He times his gentle push just as Martina is on his heels, which he then loses balance. 

After that, Salahs class takes over. I really don’t think Gana was in any position to put a tackle in. If he does... it’s a penalty and down to ten men,,,, we get rolled over. 

That's the opposite of what you're meant to do. You stop. Then coming in the box at all cost. Try to make them run the ball out or turn backwards. Not channel them into sight of goal. 

15 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I agree he started in the wrong poaition to help his team mate. 

After that, it was a form player doing what he does.

Exactly, if he stands in the right position we'd not be having this debate.. And might have actually won! 

13 minutes ago, MikeO said:

We were holding two lines of four, I'd argue that Williams should've reacted quicker to Cuco being done. And like Matt said if Gana had gone in Salah would've hit the deck and it'd be a pen and a red card (though I'm sure you'll argue we'd have been better with ten men rather than having him on the pitch).

Midfielders job looking at it. Williams is the last one of defense. 

[Shukes]

No it’s not PeteO. It’s footballing coaching basics... don’t let them hit the by line in the area.

I agree you should be trying to stop them getting there in the first place, but once in... and he was... your job is to slow them down and create  2 on 1s. Never let a player run in a natural angle. Always try to make them turn back.

You see defenders in the premier so it all the time, slide in to block a cross. The attacker has a chance to get the ball across or turn back.. which they do a lot. This isn’t a freak, it’s by design. Defenders know that in making a player turn back inside, they are taking an extra second. Just enough time for your teammate to get into position to block them.

I Agree with what your saying by the way. His teammate should have been in a position to back him up, and he wasn’t. Or as pointed out elsewhere, Williams should have been in position to block off the run. 

But let’s not forget Salah is on fire. He’s also apparently a very strong lad.

 

Edit: sorry I didn’t mean that to sound like I’m right and your wrong. It’s more how I have been taught and how I’m told to teach others. It’s different wherever you go I assume and at your end it could be the opposite from mine.

[pete0]

@Shukes

I'll not quote the whole lot. For me you run them into the corner flag and hope for a gk. Pressure them if they turn backwards. Number one stop them running into the box, number two stop them from getting a cross in. 

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

@Shukes

I'll not quote the whole lot. For me you run them into the corner flag and hope for a gk. Pressure them if they turn backwards. Number one stop them running into the box, number two stop them from getting a cross in. 

Not disagreeing with any of that mate.

[London Blue]

Can we all not agree that in an ideal (and hopefully soon to be realised world) that coco should not be at this club.

Until then we all have to despair at his obvious defensive shortcomings. 

[Shukes]

8 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Can we all not agree that in an ideal (and hopefully soon to be realised world) that coco should not be at this club.

Until then we all have to despair at his obvious defensive shortcomings. 

I agree. He isn’t as bad as people say, but for me he is a decidedly average player. And that isn’t where we want to be.

I hope Sam can pull something off in the transfer window.

[Shukes]

But we all have to agree on the next player to take the blame though.

[London Blue]

4 minutes ago, Shukes said:

But we all have to agree on the next player to take the blame though.

Bill will vote for Gana.....

[Wiggytop]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

But we all have to agree on the next player to take the blame though.

We shouldn't pick on players, but of course we're going to do cos we're passionate about our team. If he scored a worldly like he did for the saints against Arsenal, I'd be happier with him, but he just gives me the heebie geebees when he's near the ball 90% of the time, no other player does...... thankfully, yes I get pissed of with every single one at times, but no where near 90%

 

OK I did with Williams earlier in the season but he's been good the last 3 games, maybe being having Holgate alongside is the reason which I've said elsewhere.

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, MikeO said:

We were holding two lines of four, I'd argue that Williams should've reacted quicker to Cuco being done. And like Matt said if Gana had gone in Salah would've hit the deck and it'd be a pen and a red card (though I'm sure you'll argue we'd have been better with ten men rather than having him on the pitch).

Gana should have got him self between the player and the goal watch it again Mike he’s looking at the situation and he hasn’t reacted or preempted that if Salah gets through Martina he needs to back him up he doesn’t he stands in no mans land having no effect on the game not even marking a man then it’s to late when he realises where he needed to position him self, Martina is a shift LB we know that he knows that everyone knows that, but that shouldn’t let Gana off the hook for not having a football brain or the sense to read the danger and get him self between player and goal, for me he is just as much at fault if not more for his part in there goal. 

[Bill]

2 hours ago, London Blue said:

Bill will vote for Gana.....

 Just stating the scenario as I saw it in the Derby. I don't think I've ever commented on Gana before.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, Bill said:

I did notice that Gana stood and watched the tussle from two yards away,  and only made a move when Salah came away with the ball.  He was then wrong side of the man.

100% right he stood and watched he is completely reactive to a situation never proactive his positional sense is shocking he lacks the ability to read the game. 

[Newty82]

Stood and watched???

12 seconds in...at what point does he stand and watch? I get the point about some things you guys say about Gana but, fuck me, the guy was supposed to morph to a new position as soon as Martina falls on his arse? As per, it's OTT in the guy.

 

[Bailey]

I'd argue that when Martina gets the ball, the gap between him and Williams is too big so Gana should drop in a little. It' difficult because if Salah cuts the ball back and that person smashes one in from 30 yards everyone will moan at Gana for being too deep. 

At that moment though the biggest threat is Salah and I'd want to be in a position to move him away from goal rather than towards it.

[Palfy]

11 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Stood and watched???

12 seconds in...at what point does he stand and watch? I get the point about some things you guys say about Gana but, fuck me, the guy was supposed to morph to a new position as soon as Martina falls on his arse? As per, it's OTT in the guy.

 

No he should have been getting in there before he got done, he’s guilty of not reading the danger that Martina might get done and Salah would have a clear route to goal once he passes Martina the opportunity to block him off is gone as was proven 

[pete0]

39 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Stood and watched???

12 seconds in...at what point does he stand and watch? I get the point about some things you guys say about Gana but, fuck me, the guy was supposed to morph to a new position as soon as Martina falls on his arse? As per, it's OTT in the guy.

 

As soon as salah receives the ball he should drop back and occupy the space/close the sight of goal. Instead, as always,  he drifts towards the balls and then its too late to get in position. Once again he's caught the wrong side of the man. This is very basic of the ball defending, you'd mean at a 12 year old for doing it. 

This happens all the time so you can't blame him solely. The coaches should be addressing it, and the scouts should have avoided him in the first place. 

[Newty82]

7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

As soon as salah receives the ball he should drop back and occupy the space/close the sight of goal. Instead, as always,  he drifts towards the balls and then its too late to get in position. Once again he's caught the wrong side of the man. This is very basic of the ball defending, you'd mean at a 12 year old for doing it. 

This happens all the time so you can't blame him solely. The coaches should be addressing it, and the scouts should have avoided him in the first place. 

Yes, I get that. I can see that point a bit. Im not sure how effective it would have been, It still leaves Salah a lot of space to run at with pace. Which is generally a worse scenario. It's easy at pace to go by a player who has just stopped his run and will more than likely be a bit flat footed.

What you don't see in this clip, but can see on better highlight videos is that Salah sells Gana a very quick dummy, which is where Gana stumbles his feet a bit. On other videos, you can see another player sprinting towards the box, it's who Salah uses as the dummy. This player runs past DCL, who literally does just stand there and watch's.

Point being there are many scenarios that might have happened. But it was a very good goal from him. And i think that him in full flow in that area would have scored one way or another.

[Palfy]

Gana only cost 5.7M for a reason he's not good enough for this league or Everton as it's been said of other players we don't want average players at this club.

[Newty82]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Gana only cost 5.7M for a reason he's not good enough for this league or Everton as it's been said of other players we don't want average players at this club.

Yes. Because that was his release clause. We acted quick to trigger it.