Bill Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Thought that since he will be our manager for an unknown length of time he deserves a thread of his own. I like the way he is and I'm sure he will get lots of respect from the players. With Chelsea, Lyon, and fellow strugglers Leicester as his baptism, I think it could have been a better time for him if Koemans stayed for the Chelsea game. But anyway, welcome David I wish you lots of luck in your new venture. Sev and Aidan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I recall the first time I became aware of Unsworth - I had some sort of footy annual as a kid, he was interviewed as a 15/16 year old..... I recall him looking 20 not a teenager. Around 1994-1996 I thought he was absolutely superb.... I remember him out muscling John Fashanu on his first game for Villa, Fashanu was full of praise for him.... I recall him making Mark Hughes lose his rag and stamp on him.... He did a complete U Turn from villa to join Everton - was about to sign for them, as soon as he knew we were interested he told the manager "I want Everton". True blue.... Good luck Unsy pete0 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnno Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 he actually signed for villa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 44 minutes ago, johnno said: he actually signed for villa! that's right yeah cos John Gregory made a comment about his wife wearing the trousers or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Going off the presser I think he's got a very good chance of taking the role until the end of the season, performance dependant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 27 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said: Going off the presser I think he's got a very good chance of taking the role until the end of the season, performance dependant Missed it; hopefully be on EvertonTV soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, MikeO said: Missed it; hopefully be on EvertonTV soon. MikeO and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 26 minutes ago, Chach said: Absolutely chalk and cheese. Doesn't want to single anyone out, absolutely showers Ross with love (and actually sounded positive about him signing if he remained), he sounds like he has a very clear way of how he wants to play and wants to stamp his authority on the side. Every other word was win, there will be no sitting back and getting our arses handed to us. If we do get stuffed, it wont be for the want of trying. A lot has been made of Bainesy and his age and his legs but if he plays under Unsworth I am confident we will see him bombing up and down that touchline once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Thanks @Chach. Top stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Loved Unsworth as a player and really excited to see what he Ebbrell and Royle can do over the next 4 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 https://twitter.com/everton/status/922822091312975872 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I have already wondered whether Unsy would consider getting Dowell back in from loan but the last thing we need is another number 10! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 45 minutes ago, Bailey said: Absolutely chalk and cheese. Doesn't want to single anyone out, absolutely showers Ross with love (and actually sounded positive about him signing if he remained), he sounds like he has a very clear way of how he wants to play and wants to stamp his authority on the side. Every other word was win, there will be no sitting back and getting our arses handed to us. If we do get stuffed, it wont be for the want of trying. A lot has been made of Bainesy and his age and his legs but if he plays under Unsworth I am confident we will see him bombing up and down that touchline once again. He's done what he's done in the U23s by being very clear about how he wants to play, organising his sides properly, and going out to win football matches. Different level but a sound philosophy. I really hope he smashes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 27 minutes ago, Bailey said: I have already wondered whether Unsy would consider getting Dowell back in from loan but the last thing we need is another number 10! I don’t really get the clamour for Dowell tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said: Some kids can come in and mix it at a young age, like Tom Davies. Others need a bit more time to develop. Dowell is one of those players So the clamour for him is a bit misplaced then. He’s where he needs to be right now, playing regular first-team football. It’d be stupid to bring him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: So the clamour for him is a bit misplaced then. He’s where he needs to be right now, playing regular first-team football. It’d be stupid to bring him back. I only thought it because Unsworth is a big admirer of him and if there was an opening he would more than likely bring him back (but there isnt - and I wasnt suggesting he should). Dowell does look as though he has that eye for a pass not many others do. He plays more like he is Spanish than English. Physically he is nothing special so he just needs to mature a bit, so like you say, he is in the right place for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 25 minutes ago, Bailey said: I only thought it because Unsworth is a big admirer of him and if there was an opening he would more than likely bring him back (but there isnt - and I wasnt suggesting he should). Dowell does look as though he has that eye for a pass not many others do. He plays more like he is Spanish than English. Physically he is nothing special so he just needs to mature a bit, so like you say, he is in the right place for now. I know you weren’t saying he should be brought back, but plenty have and others that he shouldn’t have been loaned out in the first place. I couldn’t disagree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said: I know you weren’t saying he should be brought back, but plenty have and others that he shouldn’t have been loaned out in the first place. I couldn’t disagree more. No he definitely needed to be playing week in week out and he wasnt going to be doing that here. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Back to Unsworth I do absolutely love his attitude - I’ve said it before but his whole ethos is to win, nothing less. And that is something I can totally get behind. And you get the impression that players love to play for him, that they’d run through brick walls him because he’d ask them to do nothing he wasn’t willing to do himself for this club. i don’t know if he’s the long-term answer for us but I’m more than happy for him to come in temporarily. pete0, nutmegwolf203 and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 My choice would be Tuchel at the moment just because he's shown he can manage at a high level; however, how great would it be for Unsworth to go on a tear and prove that he, a true blue, is really ready for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, tonkaroost said: My choice would be Tuchel at the moment just because he's shown he can manage at a high level; however, how great would it be for Unsworth to go on a tear and prove that he, a true blue, is really ready for it? Well Tuchel isn’t ruling himself out according to SSN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Liked unsworth as a player. Wasn’t the greatest player but give you 100% every week and I think he will Instill that into the players. Koeman I don’t think ever got us a club, Martinez did more but going off what osman says about Martinez giving mirrallas a free licence not to track back etc you can’t allow passengers in your side. I hope he does the business and gets the job. If the right man isn’t available then just let him carry on with the job long term. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Finn balor said: Liked unsworth as a player. Wasn’t the greatest player but give you 100% every week and I think he will Instill that into the players. Koeman I don’t think ever got us a club, Martinez did more but going off what osman says about Martinez giving mirrallas a free licence not to track back etc you can’t allow passengers in your side. I hope he does the business and gets the job. If the right man isn’t available then just let him carry on with the job long term. Martinez did that to leave a 1 v 1 against the full back and an instant outlet. It's one of the things that won him the FA Cup as McManaman skinned the left back all game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Bailey said: I have already wondered whether Unsy would consider getting Dowell back in from loan but the last thing we need is another number 10! Was thinking this driving home today! It's a shame we have so many Dowell looks the dogs bollocks. As for Unsy, im very happy he is in temporarily and hope he does well and makes the role his own, But if he does it means we have to back him I January to bring in a striker, placing lots of money in his hands. Koeman had already pissed loads of it up the wall and I'm sure the board will be cautious. Best of luck rhino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just watched the press conference, thought he spoke really well, composed and talked about "us, the team, we" is what we need just now a leader who is a true team player. I really hope he does well, as fans we need to get behind the team, particularly at Goodison, on Sunday it felt as we were resigned to getting battered once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Dignified and spoke a lot of sense. Didn't want to be drawn but obviously looking to get the players on board with his philosophy. Really feeling positive now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Bailey said: Martinez did that to leave a 1 v 1 against the full back and an instant outlet. It's one of the things that won him the FA Cup as McManaman skinned the left back all game. Your talking about Wigan now, it didn’t have any success at our place did it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I felt he was holding back obviously. We is the big word though. I want him to succeed big time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, Finn balor said: Your talking about Wigan now, it didn’t have any success at our place did it? Yeh it did at times. He tried getting Geri or Mirallas isolated and prepared to take on their man but the quality of ball across was generally the problem. Someone on here used to moan all the time that x player wasnt coming back The most memorable example for us is the Arsenal game where Lukaku played wide against the full back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StevO Posted October 24, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Really impressive press conference. He does speak well. He’s probably not my first choice, but he’s got 100% of my backing and I’d love him to smash it! Romey 1878, Aidan, MikeO and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just watched, he did well, I’m guessing he will go 442. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Mirallas played his best game for us I can remember last time Unsy was in charge. hope we give this a go, best chance at Europe next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 A total class act. I love this guy already - he already seems to hold the honor and integrity that this club deserves, and that is something RK never had. The difference is 180. I know we are all looking at the big names we should be trying to get it, but if this bloke happens to be the right fit, then so be it. I wish him nothing but 100% success on whatever the length of his tenure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirony Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Feeling positive for the first time in a while. I really want Unsworth to smash it and get the job. If you look at Tuchels history he started as a youth manager before being promoted to first team management at Mainz where he spent a year or two before going onto Dortmund for a year or two. He has had success but there's no reason why we shouldn't believe that Unsworth or similar will make the transition successfully. Tuchel has the reputation because he was given the opportunity to step up from the u-23s team. Let's all get behind Unsworth and stop[ worrying about which 'big-name' manager we hope for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 I recall feeling underwhelmed when we first got Joe Royle..... yet he's the second best manager we have had in my lifetime after Kendall. What he achieved with that squad he inherited can never be underestimated - we were completely rudderless and heading for the drop. He essentially made each and every one of them play for the shirt.... his Everton side was a joy to watch. I think Unsworth can have the same impact - he knows what we are about.... he's a fan.... he loves us.... he ran through walls for us. Yeah I would be excited about a Tuchel coming in but no one will be able to impact the players in an Everton way more than Unsy. Those of you who think I'm negative or critical of certain things - weigh them up:- Phil Neville:- downplaying us.... Top 7 is a great finish for a club like Everton Moyes:- Penknives to gunfights.... never having a go at the top teams away from home Lukaku:- wanting to play for a "big club" from the get-go of his everton career Koeman:- going on holiday instead of signing his contract - talking himself as a barca manager, telling press lukaku needs to be at a bigger club Kenwright:- Overseeing a period of the club being used as a cash vehicle for Phillip Green, kings dock, NFL, Firtress fund, Kirby, Elstone:- worst CEO ive seen. Kitbag, chang. kirby Everton should be sat at the top table - we are still a big club and always have been..... people who tell me otherwise or operate us otherwise rile me... Sev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Moyes was a much better manager than Royle for us- granted no trophies but he took us from seeious relegation candidates to CL qualification on no budget at all- he tatted out on us in the end but that doesn’t hide what he done for this club. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 46 minutes ago, Paddock said: Moyes was a much better manager than Royle for us- granted no trophies but he took us from seeious relegation candidates to CL qualification on no budget at all- he tatted out on us in the end but that doesn’t hide what he done for this club. The problem Moyes has is that he just stayed around too long and that tainted his legacy. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, hafnia said: I recall feeling underwhelmed when we first got Joe Royle..... yet he's the second best manager we have had in my lifetime after Kendall. What he achieved with that squad he inherited can never be underestimated - we were completely rudderless and heading for the drop. He essentially made each and every one of them play for the shirt.... his Everton side was a joy to watch. I think Unsworth can have the same impact - he knows what we are about.... he's a fan.... he loves us.... he ran through walls for us. Yeah I would be excited about a Tuchel coming in but no one will be able to impact the players in an Everton way more than Unsy. Those of you who think I'm negative or critical of certain things - weigh them up:- Phil Neville:- downplaying us.... Top 7 is a great finish for a club like Everton Moyes:- Penknives to gunfights.... never having a go at the top teams away from home Lukaku:- wanting to play for a "big club" from the get-go of his everton career Koeman:- going on holiday instead of signing his contract - talking himself as a barca manager, telling press lukaku needs to be at a bigger club Kenwright:- Overseeing a period of the club being used as a cash vehicle for Phillip Green, kings dock, NFL, Firtress fund, Kirby, Elstone:- worst CEO ive seen. Kitbag, chang. kirby Everton should be sat at the top table - we are still a big club and always have been..... people who tell me otherwise or operate us otherwise rile me... Arsenal: 354m pounds in revenue for 2015-2016 (3rd) Chelsea: 335m pounds in revenue (4th) Liverpool: 302m pounds in revenue (5th) Manchester City: 392m pounds (2nd) Manchester United: 515m pounds (1st) Spurs: 210m pounds (6th) (and this will climb with their new stadium) Everton: 122m pounds (11th highest in the league) Sunderland: 108m pounds Bournemouth: 88m pounds (Lowest) Haf, we are much closer to bottom than we are to Spurs in the financial power of the club, at least per May 2016. We have a large and passionate fanbase, great history, but realistically we can't compete financially with the biggest clubs barring major changes. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Luckily we have a manager that believes Everton are a big club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: Arsenal: 354m pounds in revenue for 2015-2016 (3rd) Chelsea: 335m pounds in revenue (4th) Liverpool: 302m pounds in revenue (5th) Manchester City: 392m pounds (2nd) Manchester United: 515m pounds (1st) Spurs: 210m pounds (6th) (and this will climb with their new stadium) Everton: 122m pounds (11th highest in the league) Sunderland: 108m pounds Bournemouth: 88m pounds (Lowest) Haf, we are much closer to bottom than we are to Spurs in the financial power of the club, at least per May 2016. We have a large and passionate fanbase, great history, but realistically we can't compete financially with the biggest clubs barring major changes. If we only had £5.99 in our bank account we would still be bigger than 3 of those teams... Everton is royalty.... pioneered much of what is seen in the modern game, won more than most of the other teams could dream about. Unfortunately you are subscribing to the financial part of it all.... that's not even scratching the surface. Matt and Sev 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, hafnia said: If we only had £5.99 in our bank account we would still be bigger than 3 of those teams... Everton is royalty.... pioneered much of what is seen in the modern game, won more than most of the other teams could dream about. Unfortunately you are subscribing to the financial part of it all.... that's not even scratching the surface. I get your point that we are bigger historically/have more history than Spurs, Man City, Chelsea, but that is not what pays transfer fees and players wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: Arsenal: 354m pounds in revenue for 2015-2016 (3rd) Chelsea: 335m pounds in revenue (4th) Liverpool: 302m pounds in revenue (5th) Manchester City: 392m pounds (2nd) Manchester United: 515m pounds (1st) Spurs: 210m pounds (6th) (and this will climb with their new stadium) Everton: 122m pounds (11th highest in the league) Sunderland: 108m pounds Bournemouth: 88m pounds (Lowest) Haf, we are much closer to bottom than we are to Spurs in the financial power of the club, at least per May 2016. We have a large and passionate fanbase, great history, but realistically we can't compete financially with the biggest clubs barring major changes. Finances do not make you a big club, history and success do Sev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, Matt said: Finances do not make you a big club, history and success do Agreed, but finances do play a big part in determining your league position. Maybe I'm missing the point and that praising ourselves and calling ourselves a big club has less to do with on the pitch expectations as it does just stroking our own egos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Matt said: Finances do not make you a big club, history and success do the only people that feel that way are evertonians or fans of other "big" clubs that have fallen by the wayside (villa). soton, stoke, west ham, they all think they're as big as us. call them what you will, but they don't care about history. man city? neither do they. neutral fans? they don't give a fuck about 30 years ago, they think we are a mid sized mid table club. not trying to be an ass here, i get our great history and am proud of it, but the only ones that care about it is us and until we get fans to understand that and stop resting on those laurels well still be looked at as a mid table club. we need trophies/success NOW, that's the barometer of a big club. Look at Portsmouth, anyone think they are a big club? Forest? no, no one cares about their past success, their NOW succes is nothing. hence small time clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 20 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: Agreed, but finances do play a big part in determining your league position. Maybe I'm missing the point and that praising ourselves and calling ourselves a big club has less to do with on the pitch expectations as it does just stroking our own egos. Yeah, but they don't define the clubs stature. That's the point. Seems a lot of people relate rich to successful; they're 2 different things that can have link, but are separate entities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Matt said: Yeah, but they don't define the clubs stature. That's the point. Seems a lot of people relate rich to successful; they're 2 different things that can have link, but are separate entities. the only people who feel this way are clubs who don't have much money. sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, markjazzbassist said: the only people who feel this way are clubs who don't have much money. sad but true. Not even close to being true. In my experience, and in my case specifically, the people who think that have been following the game all their lives and remember the times before oil money etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 I would say in recent history we haven't been that successful, and I don't see how anyone can argue against that. Historically yes, we're a big club, but there are clubs bigger than us right now, as others have said. I think if we are going to say we are big club then we need to put "historically" before it, or we need to add a tier above "big," because we're just not at the same level (currently) as we used to be, and we rarely show up against the clubs above us. The good news is that we have an investor that is hopefully going to help us compete at the next level. I think the point I'm trying to make is yes, historically we're a big club, but finances have made some clubs around us bigger than us and that has diminished our stature a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Shukes said: Luckily we have a manager that believes Everton are a big club. Knows * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Matt said: Not even close to being true. In my experience, and in my case specifically, the people who think that have been following the game all their lives and remember the times before oil money etc. sure, but that's just a small part of the equation. Stadium, current success, revenue, trophies, champions league, all part of the equation as well. We don't do well in any of those either. so in reality history is the only thing going for us in the "big club" column. Quinn31 and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: sure, but that's just a small part of the equation. Stadium, current success, revenue, trophies, champions league, all part of the equation as well. We don't do well in any of those either. so in reality history is the only thing going for us in the "big club" column. Stadium is linked to both stature and revenue. We've got one of the oldest, most revolutionary grounds going and we'll have a new, hopefully more groundbreaking, stadium figuratively (and soon to be literally) on the horizon Competitions and current success are indeed part of the equation, but considering the club has been around longer than most, and we've got more success in competitions than most, we are a big club by definition. I'd argue that "current" success is not the way to look at it, because then you have to ask how far back do you want to go? If you want to define success on a specific timeline, you could say Man United aren't that big a club because it's been 5 years since they won a title. Is that true? Of course not, they're a massive club because of what they've won. Same as the shite too, unfortunately. To be honest, I'm kinda shocked this has to be explained on an Everton forum to fellow Evertonians. If you don't understand why we're such a big, club, you need to look back and learn. Just because we've not seen it in our lifetimes (in my case at least) does not discount the successes of the club through its lifetime. Sev and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Matt said: Stadium is linked to both stature and revenue. We've got one of the oldest, most revolutionary grounds going and we'll have a new, hopefully more groundbreaking, stadium figuratively (and soon to be literally) on the horizon Competitions and current success are indeed part of the equation, but considering the club has been around longer than most, and we've got more success in competitions than most, we are a big club by definition. I'd argue that "current" success is not the way to look at it, because then you have to ask how far back do you want to go? If you want to define success on a specific timeline, you could say Man United aren't that big a club because it's been 5 years since they won a title. Is that true? Of course not, they're a massive club because of what they've won. Same as the shite too, unfortunately. To be honest, I'm kinda shocked this has to be explained on an Everton forum to fellow Evertonians. If you don't understand why we're such a big, club, you need to look back and learn. Just because we've not seen it in our lifetimes (in my case at least) does not discount the successes of the club through its lifetime. I don't think anyone is discounting that the club has historical success, just that it can't be the only barometer for current stature and we've fallen behind relative to the other clubs above us. Liverpool is a big club, but are they as big as they once were? Quinn31 and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just for the record, I believe Everton are one of the bigger clubs in the league (obviously), but there is room for growth and think that's the whole point of this "debate." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, tonkaroost said: I don't think anyone is discounting that the club has historical success, just that it can't be the only barometer for current stature and we've fallen behind relative to the other clubs above us. Liverpool is a big club, but are they as big as they once were? Yes, they are as are we. Just curios then, how far back does current success cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, Matt said: Yes, they are as are we. Just curios then, how far back does current success cover? One side of the debate: Everton are a historically significant football club The other: Everton aren't financially equipped to buy the very best players in the world right now, and thus regularly compete with the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Man City for the PL title and Bayern, Barca, and Real Madrid for the Champions League title Part of me thinks this has been a debate between two sides addressing different questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: One side of the debate: Everton are a historically significant football club The other: Everton aren't financially equipped to buy the very best players in the world right now, and thus regularly compete with the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Man City for the PL title and Bayern, Barca, and Real Madrid for the Champions League title Part of me thinks this has been a debate between two sides addressing different questions I'm not dismissing that, that would be silly. But we still are a big club based on history. Can anyone tell me what the timescale is for "current" success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Matt said: Yes, they are as are we. Just curios then, how far back does current success cover? Okay, so on the other side of the equation... is Man City bigger now than they were before? If you say yes then you make the point that current success increases/decreases stature; if you say no then your point is that historical success is the only thing that matters. And I don't think there's a certain set of years that you look back on to determine current success... let's say 10 years if you want do define it. All of the factors come into play: historical success, current success, finances, fanbase, quality of squad, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 matt you're looking at this with blue tinted glasses, i'm not. from a neutral perspective we haven't won anything in over 20 years, have finished on average in that time mid table (ie not top 5), have an ancient small stadium (compared to "big clubs"), have continually sold our best players to fund transfers, have had maybe 2 world class players in the last 2 decades (rooney, lukaku), and haven't made a dent on the european stage for over 30 years. if i'm a neutral that's a mid table side. if i'm an evertonian we're the biggest club in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, tonkaroost said: Okay, so on the other side of the equation... is Man City bigger now than they were before? If you say yes then you make the point that current success increases/decreases stature; if you say no then your point is that historical success is the only thing that matters. And I don't think there's a certain set of years that you look back on to determine current success... let's say 10 years if you want do define it. All of the factors come into play: historical success, current success, finances, fanbase, quality of squad, etc. Yes, and then I'm making the point that they are bigger than before, not big in my opinion; they're rich, done well recently and have a squad to go on to be big. I remember them dropping down to league 2, and before 2011-12 they'd won 2 titles and 4 FA cups. Hardly an impressive CV. I'm saying success is success, over the whole history of a club. Even if you can define "current" success, then it's cherry-picking. 10 years is a good indicator of recent success, sure, but it's not a timeline to define how big a club is. That's based on the whole history. I'm going around in circles. Going to get the match ready. Just now, markjazzbassist said: matt you're looking at this with blue tinted glasses, i'm not. from a neutral perspective we haven't won anything in over 20 years, have finished on average in that time mid table (ie not top 5), have an ancient small stadium (compared to "big clubs"), have continually sold our best players to fund transfers, have had maybe 2 world class players in the last 2 decades (rooney, lukaku), and haven't made a dent on the european stage for over 30 years. if i'm a neutral that's a mid table side. if i'm an evertonian we're the biggest club in the world. I'm looking at it based on facts, no glasses needed. I would need glasses to only see what I want to see and ignore the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Unsworth has gone balls in tonight. The confident bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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