Summer Transfer Window

[StevO]

4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i wouldn't like him if he was togolese either.  he's no different than tim howard whom many on here considered to be average.  he was supposed to be a strong kicker, that lasted for half a campaign and now he is just as average with kicking as the rest of the league.  he makes the 1-2 brain farts every match that Tim Howard did, tim howard was a cheap keeper, he was not 30m and on big wages.  my point is we can get a replacement level keeper for cheaper and use the funds to better elsewhere. also it improves morale because the guy has a shitty attitude.  win win.  if you want an english keeper there are plenty that will be cheap and are the same quality.  look at pope.

I’ll keep asking, but how can anyone think we can sell Pickford (who’s going to buy him) and then buy a better keeper for less money? If any selling club knew he was replacing Pickford they would make sure he was more. 
If we bought the replacement first, any club buying Pickford would try to drive down the price as we would then have to sell him. 
Add into this equation that every single transfer is a risk, look at the many expensive flops in the team, what says we bring in a “better” keeper and they aren’t going to struggle and maybe not settle in and not be as good as Pickford was?

Anyone really convinced we sell Pickford for £30m and Burnley sell us Pope on the cheap? Not happening lads. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

I don’t particularly want an English keeper I want a good keeper and he fits the bill for me, when we have improved the more urgent area’s on the field then it maybe time to consider a new keeper, but imo that will be 18 months away at the earliest,  for now we have far bigger problems to sort out than our keeper. 

Couldn’t agree more mate. From the players we need in the squad, we have many bigger problems than in goal. No one in midfield can make a tackle. No one out wide can beat a man and cross a ball. For the good form our centre halves are now in, it’s not been permanent so nothing to suggest that this form will continue and four of them are needed anyway for adequate cover. 

[Aidan]

5 hours ago, Makis said:

On what do you base your claim he's one of the best? Makes more mistakes than any other keeper in the PL, one of the poorest save percentages, poor with crosses, not good positionally. 

Dubravka has the most errors leading to a goal at 5. Pickford tied in second with Ederson, De Gea, Bednerak and McCarthy with 3. Couldn't find just errors. Finished with 4 errors leading to a goal last season only Begovic and Leno with more at 5.

21 high claims makes him the 4th most in the league. Although that stay does not bolster any relevant point with regards to facing crosses. 

As for his save % 0.634 makes him 19th on the league best which is really poor, only Kepa has a worse record. Interestingly enough last season he ranked 17th in save percent with only McCarthy and Lossl doing worse in that department. 

The stats do not look good. 

[Bailey]

22 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Dubravka has the most errors leading to a goal at 5. Pickford tied in second with Ederson, De Gea, Bednerak and McCarthy with 3. Couldn't find just errors. Finished with 4 errors leading to a goal last season only Begovic and Leno with more at 5.

21 high claims makes him the 4th most in the league. Although that stay does not bolster any relevant point with regards to facing crosses. 

As for his save % 0.634 makes him 19th on the league best which is really poor, only Kepa has a worse record. Interestingly enough last season he ranked 17th in save percent with only McCarthy and Lossl doing worse in that department. 

The stats do not look good. 

Those stats don't really mean anything. Errors are subjective to start with. High claims will be based on how many high crosses are played (or failed to be stopped) and save percentage only measures how many shots to saves. The more good goal scoring chances that are faced are more likely to lead to more goals. I'd argue this stat gives you more of an indication as to the quality of the sides ability to defend than the keeper himself.

There is a stat out there that measures how well keeper does against the quality of the chance. Again this is subjective and will not take into account the game situation but its probably the most relevant stat out there. Given some of the errors made by Pickford this season, I would be surprised if he wasn't fairly low on that list this year. I imagine paper wrists Kepa is probably still worse. I have no idea how he cost as much as he did.

[Shukes]

Guys, just use your eyes.

[Romey 1878]

Ryan just made a mistake leading to a goal so I guess he’s no longer one of those keepers that’s better we could supposedly get cheaper than we could sell Pickford for. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

I’ll keep asking, but how can anyone think we can sell Pickford (who’s going to buy him) and then buy a better keeper for less money? If any selling club knew he was replacing Pickford they would make sure he was more. 
If we bought the replacement first, any club buying Pickford would try to drive down the price as we would then have to sell him. 
Add into this equation that every single transfer is a risk, look at the many expensive flops in the team, what says we bring in a “better” keeper and they aren’t going to struggle and maybe not settle in and not be as good as Pickford was?

Anyone really convinced we sell Pickford for £30m and Burnley sell us Pope on the cheap? Not happening lads. 

Simple economics.  We are in a pandemic in which most clubs have lost millions upon millions of pounds.  Also 3 teams are being relegated.  Ramsdale is on a relegated side and could be had for cheap.  Burnley has had money issues already due to covid and dyche spoke publicly about not having enough players on the bench and not extending contracts till the end of the campaign because the club has always been skint.  
 

pope and ramsdale are the same quality in my opinion.  Both will be cheaper.

[Hafnia]

57 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Ryan just made a mistake leading to a goal so I guess he’s no longer one of those keepers that’s better we could supposedly get cheaper than we could sell Pickford for. 

Maybe once he's made more mistakes leading to goals than any other keeper over 2 seasons then I'd say you may be right. 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Those stats don't really mean anything. Errors are subjective to start with. High claims will be based on how many high crosses are played (or failed to be stopped) and save percentage only measures how many shots to saves. The more good goal scoring chances that are faced are more likely to lead to more goals. I'd argue this stat gives you more of an indication as to the quality of the sides ability to defend than the keeper himself.

There is a stat out there that measures how well keeper does against the quality of the chance. Again this is subjective and will not take into account the game situation but its probably the most relevant stat out there. Given some of the errors made by Pickford this season, I would be surprised if he wasn't fairly low on that list this year. I imagine paper wrists Kepa is probably still worse. I have no idea how he cost as much as he did.

It is subjective, but it still doesn't paint a good picture. And as Shukes said, you just have to use your eyes. He is full of blunders... As well as arrogance 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Maybe once he's made more mistakes leading to goals than any other keeper over 2 seasons then I'd say you may be right. 

Haf, I find it hilarious how Pickford is that bad that we’re going to find a club that will meet our valuation (and let’s be honest, clubs will at least be starting the bidding at £50m if they want us to even think about it) and then we’re going to be able to take only some of that money and buy a better keeper than Pickford. So he’s that shit that another club will pay big money for him rather than go out and just pay less for the multitude of supposedly better keepers that are out there.

The logic seems a bit off here. 

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Haf, I find it hilarious how Pickford is that bad that we’re going to find a club that will meet our valuation (and let’s be honest, clubs will at least be starting the bidding at £50m if they want us to even think about it) and then we’re going to be able to take only some of that money and buy a better keeper than Pickford. So he’s that shit that another club will pay big money for him rather than go out and just pay less for the multitude of supposedly better keepers that are out there.

The logic seems a bit off here. 

Happens all the time, Jordan Ibe was a nothing for the shite yet Bournemouth had no problem paying up 25m.  John stones another great example, we were happy to get rid, got 50m from city.  Plenty of players sold on potential, Pickford would be just another.  

[Romey 1878]

11 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Happens all the time, Jordan Ibe was a nothing for the shite yet Bournemouth had no problem paying up 25m.  John stones another great example, we were happy to get rid, got 50m from city.  Plenty of players sold on potential, Pickford would be just another.  

My point is that you think he’s no good and that there are better out there that would cost less. Well, if it’s that bloody clear cut then no one will come in for him because they can just go and get that cheaper and better keeper themselves.

But he’s actually a very good goalkeeper so clubs coming in for him would be more than willing to pay the money.
 

Which makes me think we should hang on to him ourselves because, imo, you will not get better for less. We’d either get fucked on a fee for someone not as good and then have to go out and sign someone else eventually, or we pay  a massive fee (more than we bring in for Jordan) to get someone better. And seeing as our midfield is fucking shambolic at the moment I’d rather concentrate on that. 

[Romey 1878]

18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Happens all the time, Jordan Ibe was a nothing for the shite yet Bournemouth had no problem paying up 25m.  John stones another great example, we were happy to get rid, got 50m from city.  Plenty of players sold on potential, Pickford would be just another.  

Bournemouth are fucking stupid. They’ll pay anything for anyone. We were happy to get rid of Stones? Don’t rewrite history, we rejected a transfer request and wanted him to stay. That’s why we managed to get such a high fee. So a pretty terrible example, actually.

Pickford is 26, he’s hardly a new kid on the block and he’s had plenty of time to show he’s not very good apparently. So why is anyone going to come in for him?

[StevO]

3 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Simple economics.  We are in a pandemic in which most clubs have lost millions upon millions of pounds.  Also 3 teams are being relegated.  Ramsdale is on a relegated side and could be had for cheap.  Burnley has had money issues already due to covid and dyche spoke publicly about not having enough players on the bench and not extending contracts till the end of the campaign because the club has always been skint.  
 

pope and ramsdale are the same quality in my opinion.  Both will be cheaper.

So while the pandemic has hit clubs and they will be willing to sell their players for cheap, which club is going to buy Pickford off us for good money?

Your reasoning for making other keepers affordable is the same reason Pickford is unsalable. 

To add to the issue with Pope; Burnley are letting Hart go, they let Heaton go already because of how well Pope did, so why would they sell Pope for anything less than massive money?

[StevO]

Mark (Romey) trying time add reasonable logic to this argument clearly does not work.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

Mark (Romey) trying time add reasonable logic to this argument clearly does not work.

I never thought I’d be trying to add logic to anything. I usually leave that shit to Mike .

[StevO]

 

1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

I never thought I’d be trying to add logic to anything. I usually leave that shit to Mike .

Mike has been smart enough to not get involved in this ridiculous argument.

[Romey 1878]

4 minutes ago, StevO said:

 

Mike has been smart enough to not get involved in this ridiculous argument.

When I grow up I hope I’m as wise as he. 

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Ryan just made a mistake leading to a goal so I guess he’s no longer one of those keepers that’s better we could supposedly get cheaper than we could sell Pickford for. 

Depends whether it was one that would be recorded as such (I didn't see it). Guita made one against Chelsea the other day where he should have come out to collect an easy ball but didn't and that won't go down as an error leading to a goal. 

Anyone questioning Pickford and his rank in the league just need to watch more football. Lots of the replacement keepers touted make just as many, if not more mistakes. The grass isn't always greener.

[Hafnia]

13 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Haf, I find it hilarious how Pickford is that bad that we’re going to find a club that will meet our valuation (and let’s be honest, clubs will at least be starting the bidding at £50m if they want us to even think about it) and then we’re going to be able to take only some of that money and buy a better keeper than Pickford. So he’s that shit that another club will pay big money for him rather than go out and just pay less for the multitude of supposedly better keepers that are out there.

The logic seems a bit off here. 

I really couldn't give a shit if we take a loss on him.   Another blooper and a laugh and a smile.  Get him out.  It's only going to get worse.

This is no witch hunt. The lad lacks the most important 6 inches in goalkeeping.... between the ears. 

[Bailey]

6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I really couldn't give a shit if we take a loss on him.   Another blooper and a laugh and a smile.  Get him out.  It's only going to get worse.

This is no witch hunt. The lad lacks the most important 6 inches in goalkeeping.... between the ears. 

The reaction really incenses you doesn't it? 

You do realise its just an act. Its his way reacting emotionally to a mistake and bears absolutely no difference to thumping the ground or kicking the post etc.

[Makis]

Another Pickford masterclass today.

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The reaction really incenses you doesn't it? 

You do realise its just an act. Its his way reacting emotionally to a mistake and bears absolutely no difference to thumping the ground or kicking the post etc.

The "act" is what I've been pissed off about all along.  Joe Hart Lite..... focus on goalkeeping rather than being some alpha male wannabe.... no one told him to comment on allisson making mistakes, no one told him to tell his defenders to fuck off when he's being told to come out, no one told him to get involved with Newcastle or Liverpool fans.... 

We all know he can't handle mistakes. Just make yourself less of a target by being more humble. 

[Hafnia]

Btw... beaten near post again.... isn't his redeeming quality meant to be shot stopping. 

[Shukes]

13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The reaction really incenses you doesn't it? 

You do realise its just an act. Its his way reacting emotionally to a mistake and bears absolutely no difference to thumping the ground or kicking the post etc.

Disagree mate. It shows a complete lack of understanding. It shows a complete lack of respect for fans, management, and the club that pays you. He isn’t a 15 year old kid.

[Hafnia]

6 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Disagree mate. It shows a complete lack of understanding. It shows a complete lack of respect for fans, management, and the club that pays you. He isn’t a 15 year old kid.

I honestly think most of our supporters either weren't old enough or forgot what it was like to have Southall or Nigel Martyn.  Tim Howard was the last credible keeper and only credible keeper we've have in the past 20 years.   That lack of professionalism of this lad is startling. 

[StevO]

Laughing or pulling a tongue as a coping mechanism to deal with a mistake he’s made is not unprofessional. 

[Hafnia]

Just now, StevO said:

Laughing or pulling a tongue as a coping mechanism to deal with a mistake he’s made is not unprofessional. 

Telling his defenders to fuck off when being told to clear lines is.... continuing to engage with rival fans after mistakes is.

Tell me a top keeper who does shit like that?  He's juvenile. 

[Shukes]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Laughing or pulling a tongue as a coping mechanism to deal with a mistake he’s made is not unprofessional. 

Football is a spectators sport, always has been, always will be.

[Steve_E]

Financially, it's probably wisest to give Pickford an opportunity to get better.

Especially because the very clear priority should be to get a completely new starting midfield in. Two central midfielders, left wing, right wing. I'll roll with the same attack and defense next year to make that happen.