Shukes Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, Palfy said: His wages are on top of the 27 million not part of the 27 million we paid for him, they didn’t give us 4 million a year and pay his wages on top of that, they gave us jack shit and paid his wages, and whether they paid them in full is debatable we possibly still contributed a percentage. I’m pretty sure they do. Most loans incorporate a fee, and either pay the wages or pay a portion. Ive no idea the details of the last two, but that’s the usual deal. But as always, if I’m wrong… I’m wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: you and I both know if steve walsh did this he would be getting ripped apart on here, Brands does it and it's seen as a good move You would rather keep him sulking in the shadows? And keep paying his wage? Not for me. If he doesn’t want to play for us and isn’t going to add anything to the team… then I would rather he go. Don't really care who sells him, Brands, Rafa, Bill…. Makes no difference to me. Bad business would be to keep him and let his worth keep falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Shukes said: I’m pretty sure they do. Most loans incorporate a fee, and either pay the wages or pay a portion. Ive no idea the details of the last two, but that’s the usual deal. But as always, if I’m wrong… I’m wrong. Mate to be honest I’m not sure but we won today and that’s all that matters. Shukes and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, Palfy said: Mate to be honest I’m not sure but we won today and that’s all that matters. I thought I had read that in some article, but as I say…. I could be wrong and have got it mixed up with one of my books about Unicorns or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Shukes said: I thought I had read that in some article, but as I say…. I could be wrong and have got it mixed up with one of my books about Unicorns or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, Shukes said: You would rather keep him sulking in the shadows? And keep paying his wage? Not for me. If he doesn’t want to play for us and isn’t going to add anything to the team… then I would rather he go. Don't really care who sells him, Brands, Rafa, Bill…. Makes no difference to me. Bad business would be to keep him and let his worth keep falling. no no you misunderstand or i typed poorly. i'm with you, i want him sold. my issue (and it seems @Palfy as well) is that when we bought him we got him for what was considered a bargain fee for a player of his age, calibre, and with his ceiling. there was no doubting that. Brands did well to get the fee and all this and the media even said "good deal". we were also led to believe he could be worth well more than that if he continues his growth. he did that at PSG. at everton it's been up/down and some issues. so i'm expecting we sell him for his initial fee plus 5-10m because again he's better and has grown and did well at PSG but he didn't tear the roof off, so a little more than the fee. that's how most transfers are (hell even just regular old inflation too). here's where the issue is, now we are selling for less than we paid, but being told "good deal". i'm not buying that this is a good deal. minimum we should get the fee we sold him for, Juve have big time money and just sold ronaldo (lot of wages freed up). Palfy and Shukes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 To be honest, I’m just done with the whole saga and would like to see the back of him. He reminds me so much of a shit Balotelli! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 I get where your coming from Mark, I just think in this climate we’re not going to get much for him. Scenario. Occasional bench player for a mid table club. Would you pay 30+ for him? That’s what we’re asking others to do. How much did Inter pay for Correa? Or Man U for Ronaldo? This is the current climate and we need to accept we have to work a little differently. Again, I just want to see the back of him and it’s probably been aggravated by watching Richie today and realising it might be time to say goodbye to him as well. I actually feel the win has been dampened a bit by that incident and Kean making it look like we’re a terrible club to play for. dunlopp9987 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msloan78 Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 We bought a young lad, who was highly rated enough in Italy to be a full international. I think everyone has acknowledged that this is the model we needed to building on. Buy young, build them up and then sell for a profit. Som times it comes off and other times not. We're not one United, Chelsea, Arsenal or the shite who seem to be able sell bang average youth players for millions more than they're worth. Point me in the direction of the young speculators that Walsh bought for us please who made us so much money, because genuinely I can't think of any that he brought to the club. We spunked overs on Bolasie, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun etc instead who have probably cost us more as a club in the grand scheme. I don't know the ins and outs of loan deals, but always assumed the wages were paid for by the club alongside a fee. Happy to be proven wrong with facts... Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 51 minutes ago, msloan78 said: We bought a young lad, who was highly rated enough in Italy to be a full international. I think everyone has acknowledged that this is the model we needed to building on. Buy young, build them up and then sell for a profit. Som times it comes off and other times not. We're not one United, Chelsea, Arsenal or the shite who seem to be able sell bang average youth players for millions more than they're worth. Point me in the direction of the young speculators that Walsh bought for us please who made us so much money, because genuinely I can't think of any that he brought to the club. We spunked overs on Bolasie, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun etc instead who have probably cost us more as a club in the grand scheme. I don't know the ins and outs of loan deals, but always assumed the wages were paid for by the club alongside a fee. Happy to be proven wrong with facts... walsh regime bought dominic calvert lewin for 1.5m, Idrissa Gueye for 7.6m (sold for 27m), Lookman for 8m (sold for 16m), and Vlasic for 10m (sold for 14m). the DCL deal alone is remarkable. Gana for more than 3 times what we paid, lookman for double (could have had 3 times had we sold earlier), and vlasic for a small profit but a profit nonetheless. brands will be selling players he bought for big (gomes, mina, kean, etc) and all the values being rumored so far (bar mina) are less than what we paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msloan78 Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 Classic fee based off the back of a good loan at CSKA. Lookman fee based off the back of a good loan in Germany.E ssentially what has been tried to be achieved with Kean, no? The DCL transfer is the stuff dreams are made of to be fair, and I can't imagine their being many examples of such unbelievable rises. Shukes and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 24 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: walsh regime bought dominic calvert lewin for 1.5m, Idrissa Gueye for 7.6m (sold for 27m), Lookman for 8m (sold for 16m), and Vlasic for 10m (sold for 14m). the DCL deal alone is remarkable. Gana for more than 3 times what we paid, lookman for double (could have had 3 times had we sold earlier), and vlasic for a small profit but a profit nonetheless. brands will be selling players he bought for big (gomes, mina, kean, etc) and all the values being rumored so far (bar mina) are less than what we paid. 5 minutes ago, msloan78 said: Classic fee based off the back of a good loan at CSKA. Lookman fee based off the back of a good loan in Germany.E ssentially what has been tried to be achieved with Kean, no? The DCL transfer is the stuff dreams are made of to be fair, and I can't imagine their being many examples of such unbelievable rises. The DCL deal was all off the back of Unsworth who worked with him previously. msloan78 and London Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 A two year loan?! And only potentially a purchase at the end of it. We’re getting mugged off here. Newty82, pete0 and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 Honestly, not arsed who it is and all that but I'm proper fucked off with these loans over the last few years. We've been getting ripped off for fees then clubs, who aren't skint, get said players for next to fuck all year after year...until contracts run out or have minimal left. Palfy and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 Agreed. Chelsea have spent the summer shipping out the likes of Tomori to Milan for 30 million euros (fucking 30 million for him!) and Tammy Abraham to Roma for 40 million (?!?), Liverpool are mugging teams off for their dross like Shaqiri and Harry Wilson...and we're sending this kid out on a 2 year loan. I dunno, I'll have to trust that the board think this is the best we can do, but it's still annoying watching Chelsea build up a war chest on the backs of players who barely ever made their bench. markjazzbassist and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 51 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: A two year loan?! And only potentially a purchase at the end of it. We’re getting mugged off here. I just saw this and came on to say the same thing. All well and good until the obligation isn't met and your left with an unhappy but well paid player with no value. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 If they are required to sign him after the loan, id imagine we would have generated more money for him than if we sold him outright. If not, it'll be very frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted August 28, 2021 Report Share Posted August 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, Isaiah said: Agreed. Chelsea have spent the summer shipping out the likes of Tomori to Milan for 30 million euros (fucking 30 million for him!) and Tammy Abraham to Roma for 40 million (?!?), Liverpool are mugging teams off for their dross like Shaqiri and Harry Wilson...and we're sending this kid out on a 2 year loan. I dunno, I'll have to trust that the board think this is the best we can do, but it's still annoying watching Chelsea build up a war chest on the backs of players who barely ever made their bench. amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said: amen! In fairness Chelsea has much better players and bench than most squads. Lukaku was once third string there, for example. dunlopp9987 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 hours ago, SpartyBlue said: In fairness Chelsea has much better players and bench than most squads. Lukaku was once third string there, for example. Yeah, after they signed Lukaku, Abraham was their third choice striker. To put that in perspective, our third choice striker is Cenk fucking Tosun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyBlue Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 25 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said: Yeah, after they signed Lukaku, Abraham was their third choice striker. To put that in perspective, our third choice striker is Cenk fucking Tosun Yep. Man City’s bench would probably make Europe as another example. Just how it is when you outspend the rest of the world for a couple decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Newty82 said: Honestly, not arsed who it is and all that but I'm proper fucked off with these loans over the last few years. We've been getting ripped off for fees then clubs, who aren't skint, get said players for next to fuck all year after year...until contracts run out or have minimal left. And that’s why Brands isn’t all that he’s been cracked up to be, he gets all the praise when things go right though I’m struggling to think what they are, and a get out jail free card when they go wrong to many to mention. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 Same Chelsea that sold Lukaku when he was young and had great potential, then brought him back years later for huge money. Every team has mistakes in them. Simple logic. Kean is useless to us. He doesn’t get in his international squads. No ones banging the door down to buy him. He flopped in the premier league (for whatever reason, not playing ect). We NEED him off the wage bill so we can move in the transfer market. Take what we can and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 If it’s a two year loan or a full transfer we’ll still be getting plenty of money back for him. We’ll be taking at least £5m per season on loan. As long as it’s all tied up it’s fine. Even if they bought him they would still spread the payments, as we do with our purchases, so it all works out. London Blue and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 We get money from loan plus wages off the books, which gives us more transfer wiggle room. Matt and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 4 hours ago, London Blue said: We get money from loan plus wages off the books, which gives us more transfer wiggle room. What money do we get for loaning him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Palfy said: What money do we get for loaning him out. Loan fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, London Blue said: Loan fee. They won’t be paying us any loan fee, the same as PSG didn’t, but I will stand corrected if you can show me what they both paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 29, 2021 Report Share Posted August 29, 2021 35 minutes ago, Palfy said: They won’t be paying us any loan fee, the same as PSG didn’t, but I will stand corrected if you can show me what they both paid. Why would you think they didn’t pay a loan fee? It’s the absolute norm for clubs to pay a loan fee. The price is just rarely published unless it’s something really big. The only time teams tend not to is if it’s a goal keeper who may need to be recalled to his parent club. You can’t recall a player from a loan if a fee has been paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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