Demarai Gray

[Goodison Glory]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

Capped isn't removed, it's still wasted money

Agreed but with that perspective we won't sell anyone. Instead we will let their contracts run down and leave for free....oh wait....

[c1982]

17 minutes ago, Matt said:

Capped isn't removed, it's still wasted money

Agent fees are there with players we currently have - new contract = agent fees. It’s part of the game whichever way you look at it.

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Agent fees are there with players we currently have - new contract = agent fees. It’s part of the game whichever way you look at it.

Not the same scale as a new buy though. 

He would be a big return on investment, but any player that can do what he can is the fee+

[Shukes]

I do t tho k we would get a decent sun for Gray. Probably around 7-8m

Thats but nowhere near enough to replace a player of his ability.

Dyche didn't play him as he recognised we need fighters and grafters to get us out of the hole. A pre season and fresh start may see him utilise Gray better. 
 

Stay for me. One of our only game changers.

[Bailey]

If we get a good price, he should be moved on.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Yeah get rid, we have goal scorers all over the pitch, what do we need Gray for?

[Btay]

3 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Yeah get rid, we have goal scorers all over the pitch, what do we need Gray for?

9 goals in 67 games though…

[Shukes]

That makes him out top scorer then doesn’t it haha.

[Bailey]

9 hours ago, Btay said:

9 goals in 67 games though…

And at least a couple are penalties. 

Make the money on him, move on and re-invest. 

 

[Matt]

30 minutes ago, Bailey said:

And at least a couple are penalties. 

Make the money on him, move on and re-invest. 

 

Most of them got us a point or 3 too. 

Let's be really generous and say we get £20m for a 26 year old winger. Who are we getting in for that money who scores and assists more and plays more consistently? 

[Bailey]

16 minutes ago, Matt said:

Most of them got us a point or 3 too. 

Let's be really generous and say we get £20m for a 26 year old winger. Who are we getting in for that money who scores and assists more and plays more consistently? 

McNeill cost the same and contibuted 7 goals in one season. 

Eze signed for £18m and scored 10 goals in his first season for Palace.

Plenty of players out there.

Generally though Id argue that most wide players in the league can contribute just as much as Gray does. Id also argue that they would be much more team players too and could add more balance to the team generally.

Get Cole Palmer on loan from City. He would do just as well as Gray.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

McNeill cost the same and contibuted 7 goals in one season. 

Eze signed for £18m and scored 10 goals in his first season for Palace.

Plenty of players out there.

Generally though Id argue that most wide players in the league can contribute just as much as Gray does. Id also argue that they would be much more team players too and could add more balance to the team generally.

Get Cole Palmer on loan from City. He would do just as well as Gray.

Ok... so you're saying sell what we've got to spend the money on similar? Makes 0 sense to me. 

[Shukes]

Guys… we’re not going to get 20m for a player that hardly plays and cost very little.

Thos is my issue. It makes no sense to sell a player for 7-8m and buy a player of similar ability for 20m…. Which trust me, that’s what it will cost. 

Watch what happens next season. Then come back to this post. I’ll either be a mile off and Palfy can laugh at me….. which I get the feeling he seems to like. 
Or…we may be surprised and he has a decent contribution this season.

[Gwlad]

Let's face it the current players are going to have a preseason with Dyche and co who know what they have to work with. I am guessing they have a plan in place notwithstanding that outgoings and signings may alter it.

[Bailey]

On 11/06/2023 at 12:50, Matt said:

Ok... so you're saying sell what we've got to spend the money on similar? Makes 0 sense to me. 

Similar? 

They have both achieved in one season what Gray has achieved in two. Not to mention the much greater impact and balance on the team. 

[Matt]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

Similar? 

They have both achieved in one season what Gray has achieved in two. Not to mention the much greater impact and balance on the team. 

Yeah, similar. Because if you stuck Eze into our current team or last seasons, he'd perform just as poorly. Just like McNeil was awful before Dyche arrived. 

Unless of course you're only looking at your xWTF stats.

[Bailey]

13 hours ago, Matt said:

Yeah, similar. Because if you stuck Eze into our current team or last seasons, he'd perform just as poorly. Just like McNeil was awful before Dyche arrived. 

Unless of course you're only looking at your xWTF stats.

This implies Palace were a better attacking side for Eze which they werent. 

I accept the point about McNeil but there is a reason he starts and Gray doesnt. Gray has shown this pattern his whole career. 

I don't need any stats to tell you the issues with Gray, I was telling you all before he signed. 

[Matt]

30 minutes ago, Bailey said:

This implies Palace were a better attacking side for Eze which they werent. 

I accept the point about McNeil but there is a reason he starts and Gray doesnt. Gray has shown this pattern his whole career. 

I don't need any stats to tell you the issues with Gray, I was telling you all before he signed. 

Palace played with a striker, played 11 players. We played mostly with 10.

Not saying he's perfect. I'm saying there won't be many that are an upgrade in our team for the money we'd get for him.

He's 26, he's gonna find out this summer what he needs to do to get back into Dyches plans (which I think he will be) and we'll see what happens. 

[Btay]

It’s up to Gray, has the talent to be as good as he wants to be really. For now though the level he has shown he has to be a squad player for us to move up the table or become the player his talent deserves.

[Shukes]

We were close to the lowest scoring teams in the premier last season.

We need to add firepower, not get rid of it. Those are the type of decisions why we want to board out in the first place…. Let’s not keep making the same mistakes.

[RuffRob]

We where low on attacking numbers at the end of last season and he hardly got on the pitch so it's obvious he is not a 'Dyche player'. Dyche IS going to be the manager next season, so if you can make a decent profit on a player who in all likelihood would be a bit part player it is the sensible thing to do, transfer fee and wages are simply better used elsewhere. 

I don't have a particular problem with Gray, as he arrived for a very modest fee and has more than matched the fee paid for a 24 year old. However, he has been a fairly integral part of a team who have been in a relegation battle for two seasons on the run - our playing personnel have to be changed to help move on from this.

We have to assume that the club will be looking at bringing in one or two forwards and perhaps a right winger in any case as part of the priority transfers needed.

He is now a fringe player who could perhaps bring in a fee possibly approaching £10M, so to me if other players for the attacking third are coming in, then it would be the right time to move Gray on. With limited funds, we simply can't hang on to OK players if we want other players in the club that knock him further down the pecking order.

 

[Sibdane]

I’m not selling Gray unless he wants to go. We have a depth problem, and £10M won’t bring us in a better replacement in today’s market unless we’re extremely lucky. 

[Shukes]

RuffRob it’s not that he’s not a Dyche player, but that we were about to be relegated and needed a different type on the pitch. 
If Dyche starts this season trying to fight off relegation… then he’ll be gone in three months.

He will start this season with a clean slate and be able to shape his team now. 
 

let me take you back to a certain little Spaniard. It doesn’t matter how much money you can sell a player for and make profit… it’s what it takes to replace that player. 
 

We have a very inexpensive squad player that is capable of changing a game. Selling him and buying an expensive player as a risk, isn’t something I expect Dyche to go for.

[Bailey]

18 hours ago, Matt said:

Palace played with a striker, played 11 players. We played mostly with 10.

Not saying he's perfect. I'm saying there won't be many that are an upgrade in our team for the money we'd get for him.

He's 26, he's gonna find out this summer what he needs to do to get back into Dyches plans (which I think he will be) and we'll see what happens. 

Palace went on a run of a handful of games without a shot on target.

I disagree about him, I think a lot of players would be an upgrade because what he promises and what he delivers are completely different things.

7 hours ago, Shukes said:

We were close to the lowest scoring teams in the premier last season.

We need to add firepower, not get rid of it. Those are the type of decisions why we want to board out in the first place…. Let’s not keep making the same mistakes.

He isn't firepower! 2 open play goals and 0 open play assists is not firepower.

I think it would be a failure of the board to keep a player like this at the club if a good offer comes on the table. I said it last summer too when his value was higher.

Part of our failure as a club has been to not make the most of these opportunities, in the same way Brighton did with us for Maupay or Arsenal with Iwobi. We did it this January with Gordon and that is how we need to operate.

[Shukes]

That o it counts if a good offer comes in for him Bailey. That’s obvious for any player in the team. 
 

I actually think we would be looking at 7-8m for him. Which isn’t enough these days to replace him with a teenager. That would be terrible business, absolutely shocking.

Now if we’re offered 15m for him then yes we would be foolish not to cash in.

But if we were offered the right price for any player, the same counts. 

[Palfy]

51 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Part of our failure as a club has been to not make the most of these opportunities, in the same way Brighton did with us for Maupay or Arsenal with Iwobi. We did it this January with Gordon and that is how we need to operate.

You can only do what you are saying if the offers are coming in, you can’t sell if no one is buying, I’m sure if the right concrete offer came in as happened with Richarlison and Gordon we would have taken it. Every player is only worth in monetary terms what someone is prepared to pay for them, and sometimes you have to make the decision not to sell if what they could be sold for is way below what it would cost to replace them and gamble why sell. Unfortunately things aren’t always as simple as we would like them to be. 

[Matt]

41 minutes ago, Shukes said:

That o it counts if a good offer comes in for him Bailey. That’s obvious for any player in the team. 
 

I actually think we would be looking at 7-8m for him. Which isn’t enough these days to replace him with a teenager. That would be terrible business, absolutely shocking.

Now if we’re offered 15m for him then yes we would be foolish not to cash in.

But if we were offered the right price for any player, the same counts. 

And who do we get for £15m (minus other fees and bonuses)?

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

And who do we get for £15m (minus other fees and bonuses)?

That’s my point Matt, even for 15m we would struggle find someone of his quality. To be honest I just threw that figure out there without even thinking about it.

My opinion is that he is low cost and seems happy to sit on the bench. 
 

It would cost a decent amount to replace him.

[Matt]

43 minutes ago, Shukes said:

That’s my point Matt, even for 15m we would struggle find someone of his quality. To be honest I just threw that figure out there without even thinking about it.

My opinion is that he is low cost and seems happy to sit on the bench. 
 

It would cost a decent amount to replace him.

Was just reinforcing your point mate

 

[Matt]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Palace went on a run of a handful of games without a shot on target.

I disagree about him, I think a lot of players would be an upgrade because what he promises and what he delivers are completely different things.

He isn't firepower! 2 open play goals and 0 open play assists is not firepower.

I think it would be a failure of the board to keep a player like this at the club if a good offer comes on the table. I said it last summer too when his value was higher.

Part of our failure as a club has been to not make the most of these opportunities, in the same way Brighton did with us for Maupay or Arsenal with Iwobi. We did it this January with Gordon and that is how we need to operate.

No striker and a club in turmoil with a clueless manager. He is firepower, the club has been a bucket of water over the gunpowder. That's true for all of them to be honest. 

But still, you don't rate him. Who, for £15-20m, do we get to improve on him and want to come to this shitshow of a club?

Ill wait...