Matt Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, StevO said: How is he proving his worth? By putting in more effort in friendlies than other players? if he starts when the real games kick in and does a good job, then he’ll be proving his worth. He’s showing his intent if he’s putting more effort into the friendlier and standing out. That shows he has the right attitude at the very least. He’s also got a lot more talent than you give him credit for (wrong phrase to use, you don’t give him credit for anything!) Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 hours ago, sibdane said: I loved the no-look pass to Kenny in the game against Lille (I think?). I view him as a player that's not afraid to try things, and that's a good attribute to have. I really hope he kicks on. In the same game though he tried to take his man down the left hand channel in his own half and lost it and we gave away a chance. I dont have a problem with players taking chances but they need to be in the right areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 43 minutes ago, StevO said: How is he proving his worth? By putting in more effort in friendlies than other players? if he starts when the real games kick in and does a good job, then he’ll be proving his worth. And passing the ball with purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, pete0 said: And passing the ball with purpose. Thats his greatest strength ahead of Gana and Schneiderlin. Besic looks up first and is more natural at playing directly. Matt, Romey 1878, markjazzbassist and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt said: He’s showing his intent if he’s putting more effort into the friendlier and standing out. That shows he has the right attitude at the very least. He’s also got a lot more talent than you give him credit for (wrong phrase to use, you don’t give him credit for anything!) Mirallas has also put in the effort in preseason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Makis said: Mirallas has also put in the effort in preseason... And good on him for that. Mirallas with the right head on his shoulders is a good player to have. Romey 1878, pete0 and Shukes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, Makis said: Mirallas has also put in the effort in preseason... Then he'll have earned a place as well. It's a clean slate for everyone this summer. Shukes and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Totally agree with smart here. Players showing more intent in friendlys is surely what the manager is looking for. Here, have a go. Show me you want it and give me a reason to pick you. As Bailey said, his forward passing is his strength, and that’s why he looks much better than the others in friendlys.... because our biggest weakness is our inability to turn and play a quick thinking forward pass. This is what Besic can add. Imagine that quick turn, simple forward pass to an already running Richarlison, who puts in an early cross for a hungry Cenk. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Matt said: He’s showing his intent if he’s putting more effort into the friendlier and standing out. That shows he has the right attitude at the very least. He’s also got a lot more talent than you give him credit for (wrong phrase to use, you don’t give him credit for anything!) I never question his attitude Matt, I love his work ethic. But at the same time it’s his attitude and work ethic that pulls him out of position leaving a big gap in the midfield, that make him try to play a ball he can’t. I’ve seen people call players like Ross Barkley thick and not having a football brain. Mo doesn’t have that football brain either, he doesn’t have enough ability to be a top level premier league player. I’ll never skate how hard he works, but trying too hard doesn’t help him and his lack of ability is my big issue. It’s no coincidence our other managers thought the same and no one is forming a line for his signature. He has some nice tattoos though, I wonder if he had a chat with Stirling about gun tats over the summer? Without my usual moan about him, he’s just not anywhere near as good as Schneiderlin, Gana, Davies or McCarthy. I don’t see him keeping any of them out of the team, and I think we’ll bring in one more anyway if we can find one. At his age he needs to play, I think he’ll be disappointed not to have been offered the chance to go back to Boro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, StevO said: I never question his attitude Matt, I love his work ethic. But at the same time it’s his attitude and work ethic that pulls him out of position leaving a big gap in the midfield, that make him try to play a ball he can’t. I’ve seen people call players like Ross Barkley thick and not having a football brain. Mo doesn’t have that football brain either, he doesn’t have enough ability to be a top level premier league player. I’ll never skate how hard he works, but trying too hard doesn’t help him and his lack of ability is my big issue. It’s no coincidence our other managers thought the same and no one is forming a line for his signature. He has some nice tattoos though, I wonder if he had a chat with Stirling about gun tats over the summer? Without my usual moan about him, he’s just not anywhere near as good as Schneiderlin, Gana, Davies or McCarthy. I don’t see him keeping any of them out of the team, and I think we’ll bring in one more anyway if we can find one. At his age he needs to play, I think he’ll be disappointed not to have been offered the chance to go back to Boro. I see him as a mix of all 4 midfielders you mentioned, and if he can stay fit I think he’ll prove a lot of people wrong. The skill is there, he just needs to find consistency and that comes from staying fit and getting game time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Matt said: I see him as a mix of all 4 midfielders you mentioned, and if he can stay fit I think he’ll prove a lot of people wrong. The skill is there, he just needs to find consistency and that comes from staying fit and getting game time Do you genuinely think he’ll be playing for our first team this season Matt? If so, who is alongside him in the two? I think we all accept Gylfi is in front of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 I can't see Silva getting rid of him, then keeping Schneiderlin. We need some bite in the middle of the park. We've been accused of not providing chances for our forwards, that's because our midfield are easily walked over and pushed too deep, they've got no bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, StevO said: Do you genuinely think he’ll be playing for our first team this season Matt? If so, who is alongside him in the two? I think we all accept Gylfi is in front of the two. I'm with you. I'd like him to stay but I don't see where he fits in. Especially if we are in for another CM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, StevO said: Do you genuinely think he’ll be playing for our first team this season Matt? If so, who is alongside him in the two? I think we all accept Gylfi is in front of the two. With Silva emphasising competition for places being very important, yes I do. If his attitude and drive to prove himself only serves to make the others around him step up their game, then he’s already proving to be useful. If they don’t, we’ve got competent and willing player stepping in. It’s win win so far as I can see Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 It will be interesting to see how he does when the quality steps up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Doesn't have to step up much to be better than Schneiderlin. Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Love the lads attitude and ethic but personally I don't think he's good enough for our level His concentration slips and wonders out of position to much, he doesn't have the mental discipline imo and ability wise he's a notch below what we should be aiming for imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 I would definitely keep him around. The lad didn't had a proper run at Everton and actually we know very little about his football qualities, which is a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 6 hours ago, StevO said: Do you genuinely think he’ll be playing for our first team this season Matt? If so, who is alongside him in the two? I think we all accept Gylfi is in front of the two. I would see him alongside Schneiderlin. Gana is too similar to him. He needs a disciplined player alongside him, so he can use his forward passing and runs to provide upfield. I don’t see him starting against the better sides as we will need less adventurous players. But against any team we are looking to win matches, then I don’t see any reason he shouldn’t be given games. The only other player we have like him is McCarthy... and I don’t think we can think about him until he has had plebty of time to recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Haiku said: I would definitely keep him around. The lad didn't had a proper run at Everton and actually we know very little about his football qualities, which is a shame. This is a big point for me, we don’t actually know enough of his ability as he never has a run in the team. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Shukes said: I would see him alongside Schneiderlin. Gana is too similar to him. He needs a disciplined player alongside him, so he can use his forward passing and runs to provide upfield. I don’t see him starting against the better sides as we will need less adventurous players. But against any team we are looking to win matches, then I don’t see any reason he shouldn’t be given games. The only other player we have like him is McCarthy... and I don’t think we can think about him until he has had plebty of time to recover. I see him differently. The only position he can reasonably play and be an asset is at DM. If he plays the box to box role Gana has in the past, he will struggle just like Gana has in the past. They are defensive players and whilst Besic has a bit more about him from an offensive point of view, he was ultimately a defender to start his professional career and expecting him to contribute to attacks under pressure (which he has a lot less of at DM). Its a case of one of those 3 in the one position, otherwise we have the same problems as last season. And dont insult McCarthy like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 McCarthy is done, too injury prone now. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Bailey. Good points, but I feel his football has moved on from being a DM. He looks far more comfortable when he is allowed to dribble, pass forward, and even shoot. His weaknesses are in his defensive work as he can be reckless. The position needs a very disciplined player, and for me, Besic is too adventurous for that position. His strengths lend to a more attacking role. Ok people will remember him marking Messi etc, but since he has been at our club his strengths have been in his ability to turn into attack. People were suprised at him taking people on, but he’s always had that in his locker, it just needs a manager that can see past his Fifa stats one numbers. During his appearances in friendlies, he has been loitering outside the opposition penalty area, even trying to make room for shots. I think he himself thinks he should be played in a more forward role. And I would never insult McCarthy...... Mick was a very solid performer nyblue23 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Shukes said: I would see him alongside Schneiderlin. Gana is too similar to him. He needs a disciplined player alongside him, so he can use his forward passing and runs to provide upfield. I don’t see him starting against the better sides as we will need less adventurous players. But against any team we are looking to win matches, then I don’t see any reason he shouldn’t be given games. The only other player we have like him is McCarthy... and I don’t think we can think about him until he has had plebty of time to recover. Funny, I think he’s more similar to Morgan with more effort and would partner him with Gana Btay, markjazzbassist and Shukes 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 39 minutes ago, Matt said: Funny, I think he’s more similar to Morgan with more effort and would partner him with Gana I could see him working with Gana against less attacking teams, as I think gana naturally wants to sit back. But the two of them against the top six teams could leave a few holes. Good to get a few opposing views on him though, it shows he is doing something right and isn’t irrelevant anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Shukes said: I could see him working with Gana against less attacking teams, as I think gana naturally wants to sit back. But the two of them against the top six teams could leave a few holes. Good to get a few opposing views on him though, it shows he is doing something right and isn’t irrelevant anymore. I think he’d be good against the more attacking teams too, he’s got the energy to do a McCarthy type pressing and have Gana sit in front of the back 4. But yeah, he gives us options which is exactly what Silva will want. Shukes and nyblue23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Matt said: I think he’d be good against the more attacking teams too, he’s got the energy to do a McCarthy type pressing and have Gana sit in front of the back 4. But yeah, he gives us options which is exactly what Silva will want. That’s a real point. The fact I didn’t think of I shows how dull our football has become over the last few years. We do need to go out and attack these teams. Our choice is sit back and lose.... or have a go and have the chance of earning points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Shukes said: Bailey. Good points, but I feel his football has moved on from being a DM. He looks far more comfortable when he is allowed to dribble, pass forward, and even shoot. His weaknesses are in his defensive work as he can be reckless. The position needs a very disciplined player, and for me, Besic is too adventurous for that position. His strengths lend to a more attacking role. Ok people will remember him marking Messi etc, but since he has been at our club his strengths have been in his ability to turn into attack. People were suprised at him taking people on, but he’s always had that in his locker, it just needs a manager that can see past his Fifa stats one numbers. During his appearances in friendlies, he has been loitering outside the opposition penalty area, even trying to make room for shots. I think he himself thinks he should be played in a more forward role. And I would never insult McCarthy...... Mick was a very solid performer I agree that his positioning can be suspect and that is what I am hoping Silva can drill into him and if he cant do that then I dont see him being good enough at this level because his passing, shooting and attacking intelligence arent good enough to be better than that. I actually like a DM who can take a player on, it can open up counter attacks as they can take players out of the game. He definitely thinks he is more offensive, in fact I think he thinks he can do anything! Shukes and London Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 I think he might have taken a step towards the door yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoat Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Bailey said: I think he might have taken a step towards the door yesterday. I agree. I like him a lot and have wanted to see him get some steady time on the pitch. Now maybe the players around him weren't getting into space, and the positioning was off leaving him no one to link up with, but whatever it was, he looked awful yesterday, too long on the ball and turning it over. Worst game I have seen from him to date, which was a surprise after a pretty good preseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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