Tom Davies

[SpartyBlue]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Really don't get this myth that he can't pay. If anything he's one of the best passes of the ball in the team. More so if you judge them on both feet and vision. 

Of the centre mids we've had in the last 10 years how many are noticeably better at shooting? I can only think of Arteta and Barry.

Strength wise one moment that sticks out for me was he was the player we looked to to shield the ball in the corner and he did it very well. 

I disagree with your whole take here but that isn’t even my biggest issue with Davies. The biggest issue for me is that he consistently makes poor decisions.  He gives it away routinely in bad areas of the pitch, he’s often safe and boring when he has an opportunity to move the ball forward, he is a bit headless at times when pressing and commits rash fouls. Maybe all of those things would get better as he matures or in a better side  (maybe not) but we shouldn’t carry a player who has had 100+ games for us because maybe some day he can be OK. I wish every player had Davies tenacity and heart. Unfortunately  that doesn’t make up for what I view as a poor footballing brain and ability that isn’t up to our standard. 

[London Blue]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

McCarthy and Gana off the top of my head. But please don’t go on a bullshit rampage. 

Gana I agree but McCarthy was brilliant in his first season then so inconsistent after that. Injuries played a big part in that I Know but he like Morgan he was very up and down.

Maybe its an Everton midfield curse?

[pete0]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

McCarthy and Gana off the top of my head. But please don’t go on a bullshit rampage. 

Assume you're just fishing now as even the most staunch Gana fan wouldn't argue about his shooting abilities. Even the player himself laughed at his own shooting fifa stat being higher than a teammates. 

 

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

I disagree with your whole take here but that isn’t even my biggest issue with Davies. The biggest issue for me is that he consistently makes poor decisions.  He gives it away routinely in bad areas of the pitch, he’s often safe and boring when he has an opportunity to move the ball forward, he is a bit headless at times when pressing and commits rash fouls. Maybe all of those things would get better as he matures or in a better side  (maybe not) but we shouldn’t carry a player who has had 100+ games for us because maybe some day he can be OK. I wish every player had Davies tenacity and heart. Unfortunately  that doesn’t make up for what I view as a poor footballing brain and ability that isn’t up to our standard. 

Poor decisions? More often than not he's the only one showing for the ball so ends up being played into danger as there's no pass on when he gets the ball. Add to that he looks forward more than his teammates and his passing percentage is fine. Looking at Gomes in comparison who plays deeper and safer he had an 85% pass rate compared to Davies' 79%. 

[SpartyBlue]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Assume you're just fishing now as even the most staunch Gana fan wouldn't argue about his shooting abilities. Even the player himself laughed at his own shooting fifa stat being higher than a teammates. 

 

Poor decisions? More often than not he's the only one showing for the ball so ends up being played into danger as there's no pass on when he gets the ball. Add to that he looks forward more than his teammates and his passing percentage is fine. Looking at Gomes in comparison who plays deeper and safer he had an 85% pass rate compared to Davies' 79%. 

So you seem to agree Davies gives the ball away a lot you just think it’s his teammates fault. 
 

Davies is OK on the ball when nobody is close to him. When he has any pressure at all he’s going backwards. Even today vs Fleetwood he came on  and within a few minutes made two errors which is more than the entire team made in the first half. 
 

We aren’t likely to agree on him so I’ll bow out for now. Hope he proves me wrong some day. 

[Hafnia]

He's a busted flush sadly.  There is no point in trying to make him appear something that he isn't.  I admire him for the reasons that Delph, Gomes and Siggy pissed me off last season .... He's got courage and honesty. 

Ability wise he's tidy enough, positionally disciplined, has zero pace, no strength, balance is poor. I wish him really well but he's not good enough right now, maybe he will get stronger etc and come again. 

[SpartyBlue]

9 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

He's a busted flush sadly.  There is no point in trying to make him appear something that he isn't.  I admire him for the reasons that Delph, Gomes and Siggy pissed me off last season .... He's got courage and honesty. 

Ability wise he's tidy enough, positionally disciplined, has zero pace, no strength, balance is poor. I wish him really well but he's not good enough right now, maybe he will get stronger etc and come again. 

I think Davies will never get the hatred some others get because of the attitude you mention. We can accept a player who tries hard but simply isn’t good enough. There is no excuse for a lack of effort and commitment. 

[Bailey]

7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Really don't get this myth that he can't pay. If anything he's one of the best passes of the ball in the team. More so if you judge them on both feet and vision. 

Of the centre mids we've had in the last 10 years how many are noticeably better at shooting? I can only think of Arteta and Barry.

Strength wise one moment that sticks out for me was he was the player we looked to to shield the ball in the corner and he did it very well. 

He is nothing of the sort. I agree he has the vision and one of his best attributes is being able to take the ball on the half turn and dribble, but whatever comes after that is usually a let down. He had 3 really simple passes in today's game, 2 were inaccurate and the player had to chase after the ball and another he scuffed into the ground so that it bobbled up at shin height to our player. 

In terms of shooting, I'm not sure there is one worse. Gana is the obvious example but he at least caught it sweet every now and then. 

He was out "muscled" by Manete (or something like that) today. The Fleetwood player was small but he was able to shrug Davies aside and then expose Davies' lack of pace to start a half chance. 

Davies definitely does have some good attributes, he wouldnt have made it this far of he didnt, but he is at best a good Championship midfielder in my eyes.

[London Blue]

Thought he played well tonight. Shored up the midfield and helped us get control back.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

So you seem to agree Davies gives the ball away a lot you just think it’s his teammates fault. 
 

Davies is OK on the ball when nobody is close to him. When he has any pressure at all he’s going backwards. Even today vs Fleetwood he came on  and within a few minutes made two errors which is more than the entire team made in the first half. 
 

We aren’t likely to agree on him so I’ll bow out for now. Hope he proves me wrong some day. 

How do you interpret him having 6% less than Gomes, a player who takes less risks and tends to have easier passes to make, to mean he gives it away a lot? 

Of players under pressure he's been our best cm. How many times has he managed to dribble out of a situation, I'd bank on it being more than Gomes and Sigurdssen put together. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

He is nothing of the sort. I agree he has the vision and one of his best attributes is being able to take the ball on the half turn and dribble, but whatever comes after that is usually a let down. He had 3 really simple passes in today's game, 2 were inaccurate and the player had to chase after the ball and another he scuffed into the ground so that it bobbled up at shin height to our player. 

In terms of shooting, I'm not sure there is one worse. Gana is the obvious example but he at least caught it sweet every now and then. 

He was out "muscled" by Manete (or something like that) today. The Fleetwood player was small but he was able to shrug Davies aside and then expose Davies' lack of pace to start a half chance. 

Davies definitely does have some good attributes, he wouldnt have made it this far of he didnt, but he is at best a good Championship midfielder in my eyes.

Can only think of one pass you mentioned, the wayward cross field ball. Wouldn't make an issue given it was a one off. As for the bobble, the commentators mentioned that was the pitch on a few passes in general. 

Gana was laughable in front of goal to the point teams in his final season didn't even bother to mark him and would double up on Sig or whoever. He was getting aloud to have free shots from distance as they were never going in. 

Assume you're on about the bit were the player already had the run and Davies tried to apply pressure. Grasping at straws if so. What would any other player have managed to do? 

[SpartyBlue]

15 minutes ago, pete0 said:

How do you interpret him having 6% less than Gomes, a player who takes less risks and tends to have easier passes to make, to mean he gives it away a lot? 

Of players under pressure he's been our best cm. How many times has he managed to dribble out of a situation, I'd bank on it being more than Gomes and Sigurdssen put together. 

I’m simply reading what you posted. You said he gets played into danger and there are no outlet passes for him in response to the contention he gives it away a lot. Seems like you’re in agreement he does, you’re just offering an explanation.

I have no data on how often a player dribbles out of danger but it’s not what I see when I watch him play. He  didn’t start with several of our starting midfielders rested today. Wasn’t selected over Bernard or Siggy or Delph. A regular starter last season is now benched for a game against Fleetwood. I’ll take Carlo’s actions as a sign he’s not very high on Davies right now.

 

[Bill]

Or he's saving him for the Palace game.

[Hafnia]

It really makes me sad this thread.  

1. He's not good enough

2. I'm sad that he's not good enough cos I would really like him to be great. 

3. He doesn't deserve the criticism and shite that he gets because he was over promoted to cover players who didn't have his bottle who are potentially going to get to stand on the shoulders of better players that we bought in. 

[Romey 1878]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/tom-davies-everton-transfer-news-19048746

[London Blue]

Glad to see he is part of the squad, and hopefully Carlo can help him improve like Dom.

[Palfy]

Davies will grow with the likes of Allan and Doucoure to learn from. 

[Hafnia]

He deserves to be looked after. 

[Btay]

Think he’s shown some serious maturity the last few years and perhaps tried to carry to much of weight some of our more senior pro’s wouldn’t take on. 
 

He played a very good game and stepped into RB seamlessly to see out the game. Happy for him.

[RuffRob]

As Tom Davies has been on the scene so long it is easy to forget how young he is, only turning 22 this summer. He made his debut from the bench under Martinez so including interim managers has now played under 7 different managers since his 2016 debut. It would be fair to say he has not had the most stable or consistent environment in which to grow as a player. How many different ways he been asked to play for these different managers? 

A lot has been put on on his very young shoulders, in what has been a turbulent period. A few have alluded to the fact he has been the one who has been rolling his sleeves up, when well paid seasoned pros have gone missing any shirked their responsibility. Davies has been throw in at the deep end a little and a little unfair to expect him to fix our midfield. 

Given how far he has come with the club, I think at the very least he deserves a chance to mature and develop over the next 18months in more prolonged stable environment under Ancelotti and the better quality midfielders he now has around him as his senior role model. Lets give him half a season with this new look midfield and see how he comes on. 

He will either sink or swim.

[Bill]

Fair comment but with the midfield we have now and also bgamin ( sp ) to come back from injury,  I can't see him getting many minutes tbh.

[Hafnia]

Personally as much as I don't believe he is good enough - this stems from watching him try and play with footballers who were hiding when the team needed them to show courage. 

For his courage and commitment to the shirt I want to see us patch him up. Playing with better players may help him get back to something like we thought he was.  

I think his attitude and everything he brings from an application is an example to players who are looking to step up.  We shouldn't be casting him off as that sends the wrong message, be brave, be committed and you will get looked after. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Fair comment but with the midfield we have now and also bgamin ( sp ) to come back from injury,  I can't see him getting many minutes tbh.

Close. Gbamin

[marcgallifa]

He scored today on the 3-3 draw against the mighty Andorra U21 

[Sibdane]

5 minutes ago, marcgallifa said:

He scored today on the 3-3 draw against the mighty Andorra U21 

May just be Andorra, but hopefully it gives him a boost!

[Bailey]

39 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

May just be Andorra, but hopefully it gives him a boost!

I don't think anyone in that side will come off the pitch happy after drawing with Andorra!

[Sibdane]

Just now, Bailey said:

I don't think anyone in that side will come off the pitch happy after drawing with Andorra!

Ouch. Didn't realize they got a draw. 

[Bailey]

Just now, Sibdane said:

Ouch. Didn't realize they got a draw. 

Then you should read the post you quoted!

[Sibdane]

6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Then you should read the post you quoted!

I don't have time for that... 

[markjazzbassist]

I think Tom is a good locker room guy. I’ve seen a lot of team videos and other ones on Twitter and the like and he seems to get on with all the players.  A year or 2 ago there was a party and he was their with oumar and gana, both a bit older and more settled than he is, but he was hugging em and you could tell they all got on well.

 

 I mention this because after mina’s goal he gave him a big hug and they embraced and you could tell they are mates.  For all his faults it’s good to have guys like Tom that live for the badge and are the glue in the team.

[Btay]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

I think Tom is a good locker room guy. I’ve seen a lot of team videos and other ones on Twitter and the like and he seems to get on with all the players.  A year or 2 ago there was a party and he was their with oumar and gana, both a bit older and more settled than he is, but he was hugging em and you could tell they all got on well.

 

 I mention this because after mina’s goal he gave him a big hug and they embraced and you could tell they are mates.  For all his faults it’s good to have guys like Tom that live for the badge and are the glue in the team.

I’m willing to give him a clean slate to be honest.
22 for starters

Played in a shit house midfield and has taken on so much responsibility for this club despite his younger years. Plays any position asked and always tries heart out.

Really want it to work out for him.