Tom Davies

[Aidan]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Please accept. Please accept. Please accept. 

If I remeber right it was this account which first put out the doucoure link. There could be credibility in it. 

[SpartyBlue]

36 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

I think a year away on loan would do him good, would rather it be at a premier league club, think he has played enough games already at this level and championship would be a step backwards for him. A promoted club would be ideal. If he had a year as a regular starter, i think by the end of the season we would then know if he had a future at the club. 

He was a regular starter for us this past season. He’s had plenty of game time at this level by now and we’ve seen what he has. Seems like a good guy and can’t fault the effort but The quality just isn’t there to be playing for a team with our ambition. Lower premier league squad player or championship player in my opinion.

[SpartyBlue]

27 minutes ago, Aidan said:

If I remeber right it was this account which first put out the doucoure link. There could be credibility in it. 

I would prefer to just sell him outright but Davies looking for other opportunities seems best for all.

[barryj]

In my opinion he’s been afforded more leeway than some other players who also haven’t performed. He doesn’t lack effort or hides like some others but his decision making, passing under pressure and being caught on the ball I can live without. I believe I’ve seen enough that I don’t think he’ll make it at Everton but if it were true a loan to Watford would be good for him. Watford would be one of the teams fighting for the top few spots and it might be good to see how he fares in a dominant side with lower quality opposition. I think some of the comments as always though on social media by some are verging on a disgrace. Why some people feel the need to be insulting and personal never fails to surprise me. 

 

 

[markjazzbassist]

3 hours ago, London Blue said:

Season long loan yes, as it will help him develop and he needs first team football, but not with option to buy as he has too much potential for us.

 

same here, loan sure, but i'm not ready to call it a day on davies yet.  

[Aidan]

8 hours ago, barryj said:

In my opinion he’s been afforded more leeway than some other players who also haven’t performed. He doesn’t lack effort or hides like some others but his decision making, passing under pressure and being caught on the ball I can live without. I believe I’ve seen enough that I don’t think he’ll make it at Everton but if it were true a loan to Watford would be good for him. Watford would be one of the teams fighting for the top few spots and it might be good to see how he fares in a dominant side with lower quality opposition. I think some of the comments as always though on social media by some are verging on a disgrace. Why some people feel the need to be insulting and personal never fails to surprise me. 

 

 

Bolasi had the same this week with people saying vulgar things about his family. Supposedly 'fans' 

[Romey 1878]

22 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Bolasi had the same this week with people saying vulgar things about his family. Supposedly 'fans' 

Absolutely no need to abuse someone. Not rating them is one thing but shit like that isn’t on. 

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, barryj said:

In my opinion he’s been afforded more leeway than some other players who also haven’t performed. He doesn’t lack effort or hides like some others but his decision making, passing under pressure and being caught on the ball I can live without. I believe I’ve seen enough that I don’t think he’ll make it at Everton but if it were true a loan to Watford would be good for him. Watford would be one of the teams fighting for the top few spots and it might be good to see how he fares in a dominant side with lower quality opposition. I think some of the comments as always though on social media by some are verging on a disgrace. Why some people feel the need to be insulting and personal never fails to surprise me. 

 

 

The amount of criticism he gets is ridiculous.

The lad lost out on a world cup medal cos he got fast tracked.  In the time here he has had siggi, Schneiderlein, Delph, klassen, Gomes, Barkley, Besic and cleverly to "learn" from...... Instead he's had to play instead of as most of them are shit of woefully inconsistent.

He's a kid. Yet Everton fans choosd him as a Scape host whilst the likes of gylfi does fuck all and hides till there's a corner of free kick to take.

Is he good enough? No.  But he's in good company but at least he can hold his head up as he isn't a fookin coward like the overpaid pricks who disgraced our badge. 

 

[SpartyBlue]

4 hours ago, Hafnia said:

The amount of criticism he gets is ridiculous.

The lad lost out on a world cup medal cos he got fast tracked.  In the time here he has had siggi, Schneiderlein, Delph, klassen, Gomes, Barkley, Besic and cleverly to "learn" from...... Instead he's had to play instead of as most of them are shit of woefully inconsistent.

He's a kid. Yet Everton fans choosd him as a Scape host whilst the likes of gylfi does fuck all and hides till there's a corner of free kick to take.

Is he good enough? No.  But he's in good company but at least he can hold his head up as he isn't a fookin coward like the overpaid pricks who disgraced our badge. 

 

When you end your comments by acknowledging he isn’t good enough it undercuts your point. There is plenty of criticism voiced for Siggy and others. The difference is that Siggy, Gomes, Delph etc.. have all proven they can be valuable contributors at this level. Davies has not. He’s had 100 appearances for us. He’s not a kid in terms of Everton experience. The frustration for me lies in his lack of progress. He does not seem to have developed any from when he debuted and some would argue he’s gotten worse. Yes, he’s had to deal with a lot of turnover in  midfield partners. Yes, he’s had to deal with several managers. Those are factors. How much opportunity does he get though? 200 appearances? At what point does the responsibility lie on his shoulders as well? Most everyone likes Tom Davies personally but we aren’t running a charity. He’s gotten a ton of opportunity and has done nothing with it. There is a long list of players who were much more established in the game and got much less opportunity at Everton who were buried far earlier by the supporters. He has been treated very fairly in my opinion, he’s simply not up to the standard we require. 

[Hafnia]

25 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

When you end your comments by acknowledging he isn’t good enough it undercuts your point. There is plenty of criticism voiced for Siggy and others. The difference is that Siggy, Gomes, Delph etc.. have all proven they can be valuable contributors at this level. Davies has not. He’s had 100 appearances for us. He’s not a kid in terms of Everton experience. The frustration for me lies in his lack of progress. He does not seem to have developed any from when he debuted and some would argue he’s gotten worse. Yes, he’s had to deal with a lot of turnover in  midfield partners. Yes, he’s had to deal with several managers. Those are factors. How much opportunity does he get though? 200 appearances? At what point does the responsibility lie on his shoulders as well? Most everyone likes Tom Davies personally but we aren’t running a charity. He’s gotten a ton of opportunity and has done nothing with it. There is a long list of players who were much more established in the game and got much less opportunity at Everton who were buried far earlier by the supporters. He has been treated very fairly in my opinion, he’s simply not up to the standard we require. 

Doesn't undercut my point at all  Players who have "proven" they are up to much better levels are given allowances?  That is exactly the reason why our club and culture on the pitch is so shit.   It's an absolute farce and disgrace that such flippant disregard for the shirt is allowed.

I'll progress this point to make it clear where I stand.  Schneiderlein for example was capable of 9/10 or 10/10 levels of performance as is Gylfi and likewise Delph (,I'll leave Gomes for now).   All 3 have them have given 3/10 levels of performances which can be attributed to nothing other than not giving a shit.  If any 3 of them applied the effort and courage Tom Davies does then they are 6 or 7 out of 10 on their worst games.

Tom Davies rarely gets an 8/10  but will never sink to the levels  of those 3 because he has a bit of integrity and professionalism about him.  I wonder why he was made captain eh? Yeah... As a kick up the arse to the others. 

He's had 100 appearances because the so called superstars are shit. The only reliable player to do a certain containing job at times. 

Our fans are embarrassing themselves all over Twitter making jokes about him in all the giddiness of us getting 3 new midfielders in.... Let's be clear - his spot is not under threat - because his spot should have been on the bench getting the odd minutes here and there to develop.... Not 90 minutes to play babysitter to shithouse mercenaries that will have cost the club a fortune.  These are the players getting replaced.

Hopefully Davies gets done headspace to recover from this awful experience, a loan away and maybe recapture some of the early sparkle that got ruined. 

[SpartyBlue]

27 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Doesn't undercut my point at all  Players who have "proven" they are up to much better levels are given allowances?  That is exactly the reason why our club and culture on the pitch is so shit.   It's an absolute farce and disgrace that such flippant disregard for the shirt is allowed.

I'll progress this point to make it clear where I stand.  Schneiderlein for example was capable of 9/10 or 10/10 levels of performance as is Gylfi and likewise Delph (,I'll leave Gomes for now).   All 3 have them have given 3/10 levels of performances which can be attributed to nothing other than not giving a shit.  If any 3 of them applied the effort and courage Tom Davies does then they are 6 or 7 out of 10 on their worst games.

Tom Davies rarely gets an 8/10  but will never sink to the levels  of those 3 because he has a bit of integrity and professionalism about him.  I wonder why he was made captain eh? Yeah... As a kick up the arse to the others. 

He's had 100 appearances because the so called superstars are shit. The only reliable player to do a certain containing job at times. 

Our fans are embarrassing themselves all over Twitter making jokes about him in all the giddiness of us getting 3 new midfielders in.... Let's be clear - his spot is not under threat - because his spot should have been on the bench getting the odd minutes here and there to develop.... Not 90 minutes to play babysitter to shithouse mercenaries that will have cost the club a fortune.  These are the players getting replaced.

Hopefully Davies gets done headspace to recover from this awful experience, a loan away and maybe recapture some of the early sparkle that got ruined. 

I agree that with Davies and with our players in general we have a percentage of our fan base who like to just pile on the criticism and seem to revel in it. There has been a ton of that in regards to Siggy as well in recent days as these new signings are coming in and it makes me cringe. The irony is that the same people who require undying loyalty from the players are the most brutal towards them when a replacement comes in

You're missing my point a bit in regards to the criticism Davies receives vs more established players. There is a difference between comments made about veteran players who are not performing up to their own level and ones made about a player like Tom Davies who has yet to prove he's capable in the Premier League. Our disagreement seems to boil down to whether Davies has been given enough of an opportunity to prove himself at this point. I suppose we aren't far off as we both feel he shouldn't play a significant role in our midfield at this point.

[Palfy]

9 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

I agree that with Davies and with our players in general we have a percentage of our fan base who like to just pile on the criticism and seem to revel in it. There has been a ton of that in regards to Siggy as well in recent days as these new signings are coming in and it makes me cringe. The irony is that the same people who require undying loyalty from the players are the most brutal towards them when a replacement comes in

You're missing my point a bit in regards to the criticism Davies receives vs more established players. There is a difference between comments made about veteran players who are not performing up to their own level and ones made about a player like Tom Davies who has yet to prove he's capable in the Premier League. Our disagreement seems to boil down to whether Davies has been given enough of an opportunity to prove himself at this point. I suppose we aren't far off as we both feel he shouldn't play a significant role in our midfield at this point.

Also the more established stars like Gomes for instance are given a free ride when they play abysmally, he’s been piss poor of late yet hardly a raised eyebrow, yet a young lad who has been given an opportunity, but not through his own fault isn’t really ready or good enough gets completely slaughtered, and yet he is giving his all but the fact he’s surrounded by dross isn’t helping him, but many would quite happily slaughter him and say nothing about Gomes. 

[Shukes]

I think we’re all missing a lot due to our own blinkers guys.

Davies gets a lot of credit for his application. Yes he gets criticised, but generally on his ability. There are a few who go to far.

Gomes has had loads of criticism since he returned from injury, but people tend to give him a bit of leeway due to his injury. But people have been questioning his performance’s still.

What the signings do show, is that we have a lot of players who aren’t up to the level we need. Not because they are freeloaders, or crap.... but just not good enough for what we want.

[SpartyBlue]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Also the more established stars like Gomes for instance are given a free ride when they play abysmally, he’s been piss poor of late yet hardly a raised eyebrow, yet a young lad who has been given an opportunity, but not through his own fault isn’t really ready or good enough gets completely slaughtered, and yet he is giving his all but the fact he’s surrounded by dross isn’t helping him, but many would quite happily slaughter him and say nothing about Gomes. 

Well Gomes bought some slack with good performances upon his arrival and also we tend to give a little leeway for injuries (I know he wasn’t at his best before he went down). I don’t think it’s a like for like comparison.

I get why Davies has defenders. He’s young, he’s local, he tries hard. The thing is that none of those facts change the reality that he is simply not good enough to be near our starting eleven. The fact that he puts in work every game is a benefit to his character but it’s a condemnation of his ability. If he’s trying as hard as he can but still putting in mostly poor performances and not offering much what else is there to say 100+ appearances into his career? DCL broke out this past season and had detractors but you could at least see he had attributes and was progressing before that.  
If you want to argue that Davies deserves less criticism because he’s doing the best he can while other players aren’t putting in his  effort then OK but that’s not at all a case for deserving a spot at Everton. We are in the business of getting as high up the table as we can. Sentiment shouldn’t factor into it. 

[barryj]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Doesn't undercut my point at all  Players who have "proven" they are up to much better levels are given allowances? 

Really who? Siggy, Delph, Pickford, DCL, Coleman, Sidibe, Keane - even Lukaku and Gana by some on here My point is people’s opinions differ but I don’t feel ‘special’ allowance are given unless they are earned. If it happens as a one off then it should be treated as such however if there’s a pattern then it normally gets picked up upon. As you know Haf the bigger the sample size the more accurate the result. So generally more people of the same opinion is usually the correct one even if it contradicts yours. Things like media can influence this but not with the the ‘Thinking Evertonians’ on here!

[SpartyBlue]

6 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I think we’re all missing a lot due to our own blinkers guys.

Davies gets a lot of credit for his application. Yes he gets criticised, but generally on his ability. There are a few who go to far.

Gomes has had loads of criticism since he returned from injury, but people tend to give him a bit of leeway due to his injury. But people have been questioning his performance’s still.

What the signings do show, is that we have a lot of players who aren’t up to the level we need. Not because they are freeloaders, or crap.... but just not good enough for what we want.

Agree with all of this. I think it even applies to someone like Siggy. It’s not necessarily that he doesn’t try, his body is just not what it once was. I have more criticism for a player like Iwobi who has ability and the physical tools but seems to lack intensity and is afraid of making a mistake. 

[Matt]

Gylfi will be good competition so I want him to stay. 

Tom needs a break from a fucked up situation. The fact that he’s been continually played despite poor performances is a testament to his mental strength. He will only ever be a squad player, but like Ossie was; he’ll give his all and sometimes that works. He needs a loan.  

Gomes needs some consistency himself, which should be achieved with better players around him. His under confidence is an issue but with better around him, it’ll help massively. He’s still an exceptional player. 
Gbamin needs a chance and to stay fit. 
 

think that covers all the players in our midfield. 

[Bailey]

I dont really buy it that Davies gets more stick than anyone. I think on the whole we are a very fair bunch. A few go one way or another on a player but on balance a player gets stick where it is due and praise where it is due. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Gylfi will be good competition so I want him to stay. 

You want him to give up that number 10 shirt though don’t you?

[StevO]

2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I dont really buy it that Davies gets more stick than anyone. I think on the whole we are a very fair bunch. A few go one way or another on a player but on balance a player gets stick where it is due and praise where it is due. 

I disagree. Evertonians can be horrible with players. 
All of us. 

[Bailey]

6 minutes ago, StevO said:

I disagree. Evertonians can be horrible with players. 
All of us. 

I wouldn't say that we as a club are any worse than any other? Likewise I wouldnt say we on here are as a collective anywhere near as bad as some of the scumbags on social media.... except Palfy

[Matt]

12 minutes ago, StevO said:

You want him to give up that number 10 shirt though don’t you?

If it means James plays better, then yeah. Though that raises its own questions. Shirt numbers are irrelevant, they’re a nice-to-have. The badge is the most important thing. 

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

If it means James plays better, then yeah. Though that raises its own questions. Shirt numbers are irrelevant, they’re a nice-to-have. The badge is the most important thing. 

True enough, the player himself is the only person who can't see the number on his back during the game, so while being given a significant number may be a matter of personal pride it shouldn't make a damn bit of difference when on the pitch.

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, barryj said:

Really who? Siggy, Delph, Pickford, DCL, Coleman, Sidibe, Keane - even Lukaku and Gana by some on here My point is people’s opinions differ but I don’t feel ‘special’ allowance are given unless they are earned. If it happens as a one off then it should be treated as such however if there’s a pattern then it normally gets picked up upon. As you know Haf the bigger the sample size the more accurate the result. So generally more people of the same opinion is usually the correct one even if it contradicts yours. Things like media can influence this but not with the the ‘Thinking Evertonians’ on here!

The biggest single issue we have had in our side for the past few years is lack of character ... Not lack of talent.  We've had talented players who don't give a shit  ... This has cost us. 

Look at results when Dunc ran them and literally flogged them..... That was the difference between good effort from no effort. It wasn't sustainable but non the less shows you the importance of character and attitude.  

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

Well Gomes bought some slack with good performances upon his arrival and also we tend to give a little leeway for injuries (I know he wasn’t at his best before he went down). I don’t think it’s a like for like comparison.

I get why Davies has defenders. He’s young, he’s local, he tries hard. The thing is that none of those facts change the reality that he is simply not good enough to be near our starting eleven. The fact that he puts in work every game is a benefit to his character but it’s a condemnation of his ability. If he’s trying as hard as he can but still putting in mostly poor performances and not offering much what else is there to say 100+ appearances into his career? DCL broke out this past season and had detractors but you could at least see he had attributes and was progressing before that.  
If you want to argue that Davies deserves less criticism because he’s doing the best he can while other players aren’t putting in his  effort then OK but that’s not at all a case for deserving a spot at Everton. We are in the business of getting as high up the table as we can. Sentiment shouldn’t factor into it. 

I’ve supported Everton for 54 years and it wasn’t to long ago that not giving your all would never be accepted by the faithful, you could lose but as long as you tried you would be forgiven, and if you weren’t good enough that was a decision for the manager to sort out, but now there is an element of support for players who don’t give their all every time they put the shirt on, because of what they did a few games ago and what they say about the club in the media, if that isn’t based on sentiment then I don’t know what is. 
I don’t think Davies deserves his place in the team I don’t pick the team, I don’t believe he deserves the flack he gets when he puts maximum effort in, and the guy next him doesn’t yet comes out unscathed from criticism. For me that’s not the way it should be at Everton. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

True enough, the player himself is the only person who can't see the number on his back during the game, so while being given a significant number may be a matter of personal pride it shouldn't make a damn bit of difference when on the pitch.

Completely agree. Its an ego thing. Some it might be superstition I suppose but either way it doesn't matter. 

Its not even like the players could say its due to its history either as most of them probably wouldn't know who the players were let alone which number they wore.

[Zoo 2.0]

Seems to be gaining a lot of traction on Twitter, I would have been happy selling him to Newcastle if that rumour was true but suppose that it can't harm sending him out on loan either, Premier League club with guaranteed minutes you'd hope. 

Must add that if we do sell him, we should rinse whoever is interested as he's English and therefore would command a bonkers fee in today's market. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

2 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Seems to be gaining a lot of traction on Twitter, I would have been happy selling him to Newcastle if that rumour was true but suppose that it can't harm sending him out on loan either, Premier League club with guaranteed minutes you'd hope. 

Think that would be a great move , he gets game time in the prem and a rival drops loads of points!

[Matt]

40 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Seems to be gaining a lot of traction on Twitter, I would have been happy selling him to Newcastle if that rumour was true but suppose that it can't harm sending him out on loan either, Premier League club with guaranteed minutes you'd hope. 

I'd rather loan him, put him in the shop window. It would be the make or break season before selling him 

[SpartyBlue]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

I'd rather loan him, put him in the shop window. It would be the make or break season before selling him 

He's coming off a season where he played a ton of games for us. I'm not sure his value will ever be higher. If he goes to Soton and isn't much of a factor we probably won't get much for him in a sale. That said I'm all for him going elsewhere for us and for his own career.