Tom Davies

[Matt]

11 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

He's coming off a season where he played a ton of games for us. I'm not sure his value will ever be higher. If he goes to Soton and isn't much of a factor we probably won't get much for him in a sale. That said I'm all for him going elsewhere for us and for his own career.

Out of necessity and with a team and club that was a shambles. I don’t want to see a local lad leave, I think he can do a job. But a loan would really give him an opportunity to experience life elsewhere which might bring the best out of him and he comes back much improved or show (as I imagine) that he’s not going make it here. Either way it’s wins all round. 

[SpartyBlue]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

Out of necessity and with a team and club that was a shambles. I don’t want to see a local lad leave, I think he can do a job. But a loan would really give him an opportunity to experience life elsewhere which might bring the best out of him and he comes back much improved or show (as I imagine) that he’s not going make it here. Either way it’s wins all round. 

My point is just that he is more attractive to other clubs after 30+ starts in the premier league last season vs. a year on the bench somewhere. I think we all wished it would happen for Davies at Everton but after 100+ games for us we've seen what he offers in my opinion. Even with some improvement I just can't see him making an impact for a team with our ambitions. I think the writing is on the wall as far as his time with the club.

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

My point is just that he is more attractive to other clubs after 30+ starts in the premier league last season vs. a year on the bench somewhere. I think we all wished it would happen for Davies at Everton but after 100+ games for us we've seen what he offers in my opinion. Even with some improvement I just can't see him making an impact for a team with our ambitions. I think the writing is on the wall as far as his time with the club.

Don’t disagree. Just hoping for the best for him. He’s always given us his all, and that goal will never be forgotten 

[pete0]

Pace aside he's better than average in every part of his game. Why get rid now when we've got a proper central midfield that can make up for his only downfall? 

[Wiggytop]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Pace aside he's better than average in every part of his game. Why get rid now when we've got a proper central midfield that can make up for his only downfall? 

Agreed, would much rather Delph moved on, if he can walk OK that is.

[Hafnia]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

Don’t disagree. Just hoping for the best for him. He’s always given us his all, and that goal will never be forgotten 

Agreed.  He's probably at his lowest value right now... He has potential to get better and rediscover confidence. 

Loan him out and look after him - he deserves that much. 

[London Blue]

Loan season at a decent premium league side. Gets game time and a chance to prove himself. Comes back a decent option in midfield for us.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Pace aside he's better than average in every part of his game. Why get rid now when we've got a proper central midfield that can make up for his only downfall? 

Agreed, I don’t want to lose him.  I want him learning under carlo

[Matt]

42 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Agreed, I don’t want to lose him.  I want him learning under carlo

So do I but I don't see a place for him. He could've been an Osman type (hard worker, etc) but with the reinforcements we've made, I don't see him getting any game time other than coming on to waste minutes at the end of games. Loan, then sell is the best solution for all concerned 

[markjazzbassist]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

So do I but I don't see a place for him. He could've been an Osman type (hard worker, etc) but with the reinforcements we've made, I don't see him getting any game time other than coming on to waste minutes at the end of games. Loan, then sell is the best solution for all concerned 

i'm fine with a loan if he can play weekly, i'm not convinced he will at soton.

[Matt]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

i'm fine with a loan if he can play weekly, i'm not convinced he will at soton.

they lost the lad to Spurs, I think they'll want someone like him. 

Side thought - send him to Palace? I don't particularly want Zaha, but with Tom's experience, and youth still on his side, his value could mean lowering Zaha's price to something palatable. Tom on loan (option to buy), Bolasie + Delph + Walcott + Tosun sounds like a good deal to me  

[markjazzbassist]

Just now, Matt said:

they lost the lad to Spurs, I think they'll want someone like him. 

Side thought - send him to Palace? I don't particularly want Zaha, but with Tom's experience, and youth still on his side, his value could mean lowering Zaha's price to something palatable. Tom on loan (option to buy), Bolasie + Delph + Walcott + Tosun sounds like a good deal to me  

at soton maybe, but he must start if he's loaned.  otherwise he can be on our bench.  he's not getting in over mcarthur and mccarthy at palace, they have played together for a long time there and wigan.  their understanding is not something Roy will break up.

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

at soton maybe, but he must start if he's loaned.  otherwise he can be on our bench.  he's not getting in over mcarthur and mccarthy at palace, they have played together for a long time there and wigan.  their understanding is not something Roy will break up.

True. I was more thinking wishfully than realistically with that post 

[Romey 1878]

I wonder what excuse will be made if he goes there and still looks shite... the South coast air messed with his hair?

In all seriousness, I hope he goes somewhere and remembers how to play football because it’s become a rarity from him. 

[Palfy]

I would send him out on loan this season to hopefully to get plenty of game time for his development, then if that went well bring him back to work with Rodriguez and Allan. 
I realise that he is going to struggle to get into the team with our 3 new signings, but let’s not forget 2 are 29 years old and may only give us 2-3 years max, Davies is a young man who we should keep and let him develop in the presence of these top players. 
Buying older players and selling young up and coming players isn’t going to get us a settled team let’s make the most of these older talents and allow them to impart their talents on our younger prospects instead of selling them. 

[London Blue]

43 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I wonder what excuse will be made if he goes there and still looks shite... the South coast air messed with his hair?

In all seriousness, I hope he goes somewhere and remembers how to play football because it’s become a rarity from him. 

Our midfield didn't play football last season.

Tom will go there and regain his form and confidence, and come back as an option for us. I genuinely believe this.

If he does not then he can move on to find the right club for him.

But I believe he will succeed. 

[SpartyBlue]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

at soton maybe, but he must start if he's loaned.  otherwise he can be on our bench.  he's not getting in over mcarthur and mccarthy at palace, they have played together for a long time there and wigan.  their understanding is not something Roy will break up.

I don't think this will be looked at as a developmental loan by the club or at least not as the reason for letting him go out somewhere. You cross your fingers and hope of course but he's had nearly 3 seasons worth of games in the league at this point. For me this would be a loan we do because we don't want to pay his wages and are giving him a better chance at games elsewhere. It also clears a bench space for a Gbamin or a Gordon who are likely to be more useful.

[London Blue]

8 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

I don't think this will be looked at as a developmental loan by the club or at least not as the reason for letting him go out somewhere. You cross your fingers and hope of course but he's had nearly 3 seasons worth of games in the league at this point. For me this would be a loan we do because we don't want to pay his wages and are giving him a better chance at games elsewhere. It also clears a bench space for a Gbamin or a Gordon who are likely to be more useful.

Gambin and Gordon play different roles, one is an attacking player, the other  sits in front of the back four. Tom is an all round midfielder. 

[SpartyBlue]

1 minute ago, London Blue said:

Our midfield didn't play football last season.

Tom will go there and regain his form and confidence, and come back as an option for us. I genuinely believe this.

If he does not then he can move on to find the right club for him.

But I believe he will succeed. 

But...why? He's gotten all the opportunity a player of his age could ever ask for. Yes the midfield has been inconsistent in his time with the first team but he still played with Gana, Siggy, Gomes etc..when they were on form. At what point do we look at a player who has shown little/no development and say that he's simply not good enough? 200 games? People are ready to bury Moise Kean who has had maybe 4 or 5 games worth of playing time in the league but Davies gets more support despite consistently poor/mediocre performances over a sample 25 times that large. 

[SpartyBlue]

Just now, London Blue said:

Gambin and Gordon play different roles, one is an attacking player, the other  sits in front of the back four. Tom is an all round midfielder. 

I'm not suggesting they are like for like replacements, only that they are likely to offer more than Davies does from the bench. It is a kindness if we send Davies on loan as I expect he won't make the squad very often otherwise.

[Romey 1878]

14 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Our midfield didn't play football last season.

Tom will go there and regain his form and confidence, and come back as an option for us. I genuinely believe this.

If he does not then he can move on to find the right club for him.

But I believe he will succeed. 

I’ve never seen him have any form to regain, LB. I don’t think he’s progressed in any way since he made his debut and I struggle to see what anyone else sees in him.

Out of more than 100 games for us you can probably count his good games on one hand. So it wasn’t just last season with him and a loan isn’t likely to do anything other than get him a permanent move elsewhere. I’ll be happy to be proven wrong though. 

[London Blue]

1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

I’ve never seen him have any form to regain, LB. I don’t think he’s progressed in any way since he made his debut and I struggle to see what anyone else sees in him.

Out of more than 100 games for us you can probably count his good games on one hand. So it wasn’t just last season with him and a loan isn’t likely to do anything other than get him a permanent move elsewhere. I’ll be happy to be proven wrong though. 

 

8 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

But...why? He's gotten all the opportunity a player of his age could ever ask for. Yes the midfield has been inconsistent in his time with the first team but he still played with Gana, Siggy, Gomes etc..when they were on form. At what point do we look at a player who has shown little/no development and say that he's simply not good enough? 200 games? People are ready to bury Moise Kean who has had maybe 4 or 5 games worth of playing time in the league but Davies gets more support despite consistently poor/mediocre performances over a sample 25 times that large. 

First off I know its a game of opinions, and I respect both of yours.

In my opinion he is a good midfielder, which is supported by the fact that he got MOTM 51 times last season and was the top placed midfielder. Not much competition in an underperforming midfield I know, but stats are stats.

Second he is still a young player, plenty of time to develop and show his worth.

Last he was as mentioned above playing in a poor midfield under far too many managers in his formative years.

I know I am not going to convince you otherwise and you are not going to convince me. So lets hope he gets the loan and then Tom can have the final word.

[SpartyBlue]

9 minutes ago, London Blue said:

 

First off I know its a game of opinions, and I respect both of yours.

In my opinion he is a good midfielder, which is supported by the fact that he got MOTM 51 times last season and was the top placed midfielder. Not much competition in an underperforming midfield I know, but stats are stats.

Second he is still a young player, plenty of time to develop and show his worth.

Last he was as mentioned above playing in a poor midfield under far too many managers in his formative years.

I know I am not going to convince you otherwise and you are not going to convince me. So lets hope he gets the loan and then Tom can have the final word.

Fair enough. I really am rooting for the kid. Hopefully he can be a solid premier league midfielder one day even if it's not ultimately here.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

But...why? He's gotten all the opportunity a player of his age could ever ask for. Yes the midfield has been inconsistent in his time with the first team but he still played with Gana, Siggy, Gomes etc..when they were on form. At what point do we look at a player who has shown little/no development and say that he's simply not good enough? 200 games? People are ready to bury Moise Kean who has had maybe 4 or 5 games worth of playing time in the league but Davies gets more support despite consistently poor/mediocre performances over a sample 25 times that large. 

There's the problem, not forgetting Schneiderlin too. He looked a real prospect with Barry next to him and played a big part in turning our season around when Gana went to Africa. 

Bar Barry none of the players next to him have been good enough to help him with their experience. Gomes is a confidence player who more often than not doesn't turn up, and the rest of them hide from the ball. No surprise that the one he played well with is also the one who takes responsibility. Look at the rest of them and Davies is the one who takes responsibility. 

Give him a chance with proper players round him and play to his strengths. He was miles ahead of his age group to the point Koeman stopped him from going the u23 world cup. Funnily enough we have one of the players who did go the kids world cup and most our fans didn't believe in him, yet we're now playing to his strengths and laughing off £80m bids. Hopefully Davies gets a chance and shows us wrong just as DCL did. 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I’ve never seen him have any form to regain, LB. I don’t think he’s progressed in any way since he made his debut and I struggle to see what anyone else sees in him.

Out of more than 100 games for us you can probably count his good games on one hand. So it wasn’t just last season with him and a loan isn’t likely to do anything other than get him a permanent move elsewhere. I’ll be happy to be proven wrong though. 

With you mate. Won't make it here and doubt he will make it in this league. I'm sure a premier league club will gamble on him first though. 

[StevO]

The shame for him is that when he first broke into the team he was fearless, he would try creative passes or to beat a man and move us up the pitch. But he turned into a player who’s very very safe; constantly playing the simple ball to the man next to him or behind him. There is a place for the simple game in the midfield, but there has to be a player who can do the forward passes and move up the pitch and we’ve not had that, and he’s ended up being neither a player who sits or a player who progresses the team forward. He’s now a bit of a nothing midfielder. 
I hoped to see him play a cup game next to Allan to see if he can rediscover that excitement but I doubt we will now. 
 

It’ll be interesting to see him play alongside Ward-Prowse. Did they play together for the under 21s or am I still imagining Ward-Prowse is a young lad?

[Bailey]

23 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Think that would be a great move , he gets game time in the prem and a rival drops loads of points!

22 hours ago, pete0 said:

Pace aside he's better than average in every part of his game. Why get rid now when we've got a proper central midfield that can make up for his only downfall? 

He can barely pass to a team mate at times and he has the strength of a gnat. He also can barely strike a ball at goal.

The rest of the league must be terrible if Davies is average.

[pete0]

9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

He can barely pass to a team mate at times and he has the strength of a gnat. He also can barely strike a ball at goal.

The rest of the league must be terrible if Davies is average.

Really don't get this myth that he can't pay. If anything he's one of the best passes of the ball in the team. More so if you judge them on both feet and vision. 

Of the centre mids we've had in the last 10 years how many are noticeably better at shooting? I can only think of Arteta and Barry.

Strength wise one moment that sticks out for me was he was the player we looked to to shield the ball in the corner and he did it very well. 

[Matt]

McCarthy and Gana off the top of my head. But please don’t go on a bullshit rampage. 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

This conversation is fascinating! Despite the fact it's been disheartening to see him regress and struggle, I'm in the keep-camp because for me he is still our best CM option off the bench. Our CM depth until January is Davies, Siggy, Delph, Besic, Beni. Seems reckless to send Davies out...if Doucoure pulls a hammy then what?