Tom Davies

[Romey 1878]

I've struggled to even see a squad player in him ever since he broke into the side but he is, at the very least, showing he can be that for us. He's stepped in for Allan and there hasn't been much of a step down at all. That's something we've been hit hard by in recent times - the drop off from the first 11 to those stepping in.

I'm really pleased for him and happy that it looks like I'll be wrong about him.

[RuffRob]

I think what we all want is to see consistency of performance.

If you look through the team pretty much everybody is now playing better - look more comfortable and look as if they are enjoying it more. 

Pickford, Mina, Keane, Gomes, Gylfi, Awobi, DCL and now Davies are all looking much better players than when Ancelotti first arrived. 

I don't think there has every been a better collection of signings James, Allan, Doucoure and Godfrey - all of them hitting the spot.

As people have said Davies still only 22 and now has a much better quality of player around him in both training and in games, I can only see his level of performance improving now he has both a quality manager and players around to learn from, if these don't help him become the best player he can over the next 18months - then it will never happen. Fingers crossed for him. 

 

 

 

[pete0]

Compare him to players his age and you can appreciate there's a player there. Shared the pitch with Mctominay, Rice and Winks and not one of them has been fit to shine his boots.

[Romey 1878]

Very, very impressed with him again tonight. Could maybe have done better for their fourth because it was a bit powderpuff the way he tried stopping the cross from Son but the engine and drive from him tonight was something else so I'm not going to hold it against him.

Allan might find himself on the bench on Sunday.

[c1982]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Compare him to players his age and you can appreciate there's a player there. Shared the pitch with Mctominay, Rice and Winks and not one of them has been fit to shine his boots.

He’s been excellent but I do like Rice - cracking player when used correctly e.g not alongside Henderson in front of a back 3 for England.

[c1982]

Just now, Romey 1878 said:

Allan might find himself on the bench on Sunday.

Nice problem to have!

[Hafnia]

Probably the first time in his career he's been properly coached and had teammates who can teach him 

[London Blue]

Made up for him, third or fourth game in a row he has really performed this season. My joint man of the match.

[Wiggytop]

Tom like most of the team, looks like he is benefiting from having an experienced manager at the helm, I think Tom has had 5 managers since that goal against Man City, lack of stability and direction will have had a huge negative impact on him. Carlo has taken him out of the limelight for a while and has slowly reintroduced him, ( without the crowd who historically have given him a hard time, me included, but I groan at every bad pass) .

I don’t think he will become a superstar, but will develop into a solid player who we can depend on.

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

Compare him to players his age and you can appreciate there's a player there. Shared the pitch with Mctominay, Rice and Winks and not one of them has been fit to shine his boots.

I like McTominay from what I’ve seen, not sure about the other 2 though.

[London Blue]

Its great to see players who are mates on and off the pitch and celebrating their success's!! 

[Bailey]

He still has to cut out the big errors he is making though. It is a common theme with the side as a whole, but he made plenty of mistakes despite having one of his better games for us. He hasn't suddenly turned into a better player over the course of a couple of games and IMO he still has a long way to go before you would be comfortable starting him week in week out.

[London Blue]

6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

He still has to cut out the big errors he is making though. It is a common theme with the side as a whole, but he made plenty of mistakes despite having one of his better games for us. He hasn't suddenly turned into a better player over the course of a couple of games and IMO he still has a long way to go before you would be comfortable starting him week in week out.

We don't see the work that goes into his training every day with Carlo and the coaches. Clearly this has had a very positive effect as the Tom Davies we have seen this season is a vast improvement over the Tom Davies we have seen over the last couple of years. Lets not forget he is only 22......

Given his recent performances I would be happy with him to start, and more importantly so is Carlo as he started him against Utd away and Spurs at home, where in many peoples opinion he was MOTM in both.

[Palfy]

Him and DCL are the two most improved players from last season, and what makes it sweeter is Davies is one of our own. What I love about Davies play more than anything is he is always trying to be positive in his play he wants to go and get us going forward, hardly any negative backward passes, Ancelotti must love that part of his game as he himself has criticised that part of our game when we haven’t taken the forward pass and gone for the negative backwards ball. 
If he can keep this improvement up what a player we will have as a 25 year old.  

[Matt]

 

[Btay]

14 hours ago, Bailey said:

He still has to cut out the big errors he is making though. It is a common theme with the side as a whole, but he made plenty of mistakes despite having one of his better games for us. He hasn't suddenly turned into a better player over the course of a couple of games and IMO he still has a long way to go before you would be comfortable starting him week in week out.

I think his positional play has improved a lot. Along with his range of passing. Looks a lot more confident, directing the play around. I think there could be a very strong midfield with him sitting in front of the back 4 while Allan & Doucoure buzz around doing their thing. Regardless, he is showing that he is a viable option and saving us money that can be spent elsewhere 

[Hafnia]

22 hours ago, Bailey said:

He still has to cut out the big errors he is making though. It is a common theme with the side as a whole, but he made plenty of mistakes despite having one of his better games for us. He hasn't suddenly turned into a better player over the course of a couple of games and IMO he still has a long way to go before you would be comfortable starting him week in week out.

Much of it is confidence.

Let's make this clear.... This lad has got fucking huge balls.  If he was related to me I'd have told him what I would have told Barkley - "you didn't become a player for your boyhood team to get all this shit - get yourself away".

He was given an opportunity to go to Southampton and decided to stay.

Similar to Jordan Henderson - this lad backs himself and is brave. Henderson had a similar situation and decided to fight.

I take my hat off to the kid. Bravo Tom - you deserve a top career. 

[Bailey]

On 11/02/2021 at 14:39, London Blue said:

We don't see the work that goes into his training every day with Carlo and the coaches. Clearly this has had a very positive effect as the Tom Davies we have seen this season is a vast improvement over the Tom Davies we have seen over the last couple of years. Lets not forget he is only 22......

Given his recent performances I would be happy with him to start, and more importantly so is Carlo as he started him against Utd away and Spurs at home, where in many peoples opinion he was MOTM in both.

The last two games have been an improvement, before that he was largely hit and miss just as he was before. Don't forget he also made some pretty big errors in the Spurs game. 

His output in big parts of the last two game has been great but it takes a lot more than that to impress me given what came before that. No doubt another poor game will be around the corner and then the knives will be back out again.

13 hours ago, Btay said:

I think his positional play has improved a lot. Along with his range of passing. Looks a lot more confident, directing the play around. I think there could be a very strong midfield with him sitting in front of the back 4 while Allan & Doucoure buzz around doing their thing. Regardless, he is showing that he is a viable option and saving us money that can be spent elsewhere 

I agree about his positioning. I watched that a fair bit in the Spurs game and it was chalk and cheese. Too often before we see him get attracted to the ball and dive in (as he did do in the Spurs game) but he has done a lot of work on covering the angles and slowing down the attack rather than taking himself out of the defensive line.

As I said above, he has to do a lot more to show he is anything other than a squad player. Hopefully he can keep this run of form up prove that he can do it.

[London Blue]

15 minutes ago, Bailey said:

No doubt another poor game will be around the corner and then the knives will be back out again.

This is what saddens me, this guy, an Everton fan never moans, never complains, always goes out and gives his all for the team. He works hard and improves and then so called fans are ready to "Get the knives out" the next time he has a bad performance.

Some of our fans aren't worthy of the title of fan.

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, London Blue said:

This is what saddens me, this guy, an Everton fan never moans, never complains, always goes out and gives his all for the team. He works hard and improves and then so called fans are ready to "Get the knives out" the next time he has a bad performance.

Some of our fans aren't worthy of the title of fan.

He’s not the only player that happens to sadly, but I suppose that’s football and shit happens, and we are all slightly guilty of double standards at times but some take the biscuit. 

[SpartyBlue]

11 minutes ago, London Blue said:

This is what saddens me, this guy, an Everton fan never moans, never complains, always goes out and gives his all for the team. He works hard and improves and then so called fans are ready to "Get the knives out" the next time he has a bad performance.

Some of our fans aren't worthy of the title of fan.

This is quite off the mark for me. No player is above criticism and Davies has certainly earned his. For most of his time with the first team he has simply not been good enough. He isn’t singled out though. Everyone in the club who doesn’t do the job gets the same treatment. Siggy? Pickford? DCL at times? Etc.. It’s just part of the deal at every club and to handle criticism is part of your job as a professional athlete being paid millions to play a game for a living.  It is possible to be critical of his contribution on the pitch and to also think he’s a hard worker and a true Evertonian who we would all love to see succeed. It is because of these factors that he gets more defenders than others. I didn’t see a lot of talk about “not being worthy of the title of fan” when people were going off on Sandro or Klassen or a dozen others.

Full credit to Tom for his attitude and his improvement but nobody is above reproach when the goal is to advance as a club. To suggest otherwise reveals your own bias. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Don't forget he also made some pretty big errors in the Spurs game. 

The fact all them have been highlighted shows how much our fans have it out for him. Just like Mina and Pickford every bad moment gets picked apart. They have no more bad ones than any player for us.

The back four minus Digne, Olsen and Sigurdsson had much bigger faults.

[SpartyBlue]

9 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The fact all them have been highlighted shows how much our fans have it out for him. Just like Mina and Pickford every bad moment gets picked apart. They have no more bad ones than any player for us.

The back four minus Digne, Olsen and Sigurdsson had much bigger faults.

It’s not “our fans”. Every single club is critical when their players don’t perform. It is not unique to us. Davies gets less benefit of the doubt because he’s had well over 100 games for our first team and I would say that, comfortably, most of them were not good enough. If he’s gonna change that narrative it’s going to take more than a handful of games. Nothing but the best is good enough is our motto and it’s why we are critical. For better or worse we expect to be competing for cups and titles. If a player is not advancing us towards that goal then we want someone in there who will.
 

For the same reason I’m not going to bury Richarlison for a mediocre  season, I’m not going to overly praise Davies for a couple good performances. It’s about the body of work. Look at Michael Keane. He was heavily criticized upon arrival and it was well deserved. Now that he’s been much improved over a significant length of time he has changed minds. Nothing shuts people up like doing your job well. If Davies continues to do so the same will happen for him. 

[London Blue]

There is a difference between honest criticism, which everyone is entitled to make, and having knives out waiting to strike when someone has a bad game. There is not an Everton player I have not criticised over the years, because they have all had patches where they have played poorly and deserved criticism. 

I have criticised Siggy in the past, and to be fair he has put in some awful performances, and I don't just mean  played badly, but lacked effort. I waxed lyrical about his shitness and wanted him gone from this club.

However he has improved, worked hard and under Carlo he has flourished and I now think he is a valued member of our squad. When he has a bad game, which he will do at some time as he is human, I will criticise him but I will not "Have the knife out for him".

As I said players like Tom, who don't run to the press to complain, who don't have a tantrum, but actually work hard to improve and give their all to the team, deserve support. If they are not good enough they will go. But you still recognise that they try their best. If they improve then that needs to be recognised too.

When people ignore these players efforts, when they fail to acknowledge a players improvement and continually dismiss it as a fluke or luck and just wait to slag them off the moment they have a bad game then, I will exercise my right to criticise their behaviour because in my opinion they are not fans they are twats.

Players like Delph who simply do not give a shit, and play poorly and just collect their money I am more than happy to have the knife out for. In fact I will hand out the knives to anyone who forgot to bring one. Because their attitude and lack of effort and commitment deserve it.

 

 

 

 

[SpartyBlue]

1 minute ago, London Blue said:

There is a difference between honest criticism, which everyone is entitled to make, and having knives out waiting to strike when someone has a bad game. There is not an Everton player I have not criticised over the years, because they have all had patches where they have played poorly and deserved criticism. 

I have criticised Siggy in the past, and to be fair he has put in some awful performances, and I don't just mean  played badly, but lacked effort. I waxed lyrical about his shitness and wanted him gone from this club.

However he has improved, worked hard and under Carlo he has flourished and I now think he is a valued member of our squad. When he has a bad game, which he will do at some time as he is human, I will criticise him but I will not "Have the knife out for him".

As I said players like Tom, who don't run to the press to complain, who don't have a tantrum, but actually work hard to improve and give their all to the team, deserve support. If they are not good enough they will go. But you still recognise that they try their best. If they improve then that needs to be recognised too.

When people ignore these players efforts, when they fail to acknowledge a players improvement and continually dismiss it as a fluke or luck and just wait to slag them off the moment they have a bad game then, I will exercise my right to criticise their behaviour because in my opinion they are not fans they are twats.

Players like Delph who simply do not give a shit, and play poorly and just collect their money I am more than happy to have the knife out for. In fact I will hand out the knives to anyone who forgot to bring one. Because their attitude and lack of effort and commitment deserve it.

 

 

 

 

I understand what you’re getting at but I think it’s a bad look when you start saying that people aren’t fans because they express themselves differently than you would like. Having just gone through a divisive election in the states it reminds me of people saying that X is “not a real American” for whatever opinion they hold.
 

I don’t disagree that a little more leeway should be given to a player like Davies. Both for his age and the fact that he works hard. Even for him being a true Blue. But there is still a bias that exists there. We want so badly for him to succeed that he gets defended in a way that other hard working players simply do not. At the end of the day it’s about our goals. If we want to advance as a club then we can not afford to carry players because they give it 100% or have a nice smile while performing poorly. I’m not saying Davies is that, he’s shown enough to put that in doubt, but we have to be ruthless in this regard. Would we pass on a world class striker because we all really like DCL? I hope not. 

We are all going to take issue with what another supporter says at times. In some dark hole somewhere a person is yelling “Carlo out!” That’s just the nature of fandom. We will see a player or a game differently. In the end  we all want the same things even if we might disagree on what is necessary to get there.

[London Blue]

My point is, and perhaps I am not expressing it well enough is that:

1) Criticism is fine, nobody is above being criticised.

2) Wanting this club to succeed and have the best players is great.

3) Being overly critical to the point of ignoring any improvement or effort is bad.

 

[SpartyBlue]

2 minutes ago, London Blue said:

My point is, and perhaps I am not expressing it well enough is that:

1) Criticism is fine, nobody is above being criticised.

2) Wanting this club to succeed and have the best players is great.

3) Being overly critical to the point of ignoring any improvement or effort is bad.

 

Fair enough. I agree that your last point is annoying but it bothers me more in different circumstances. Like when a player is new to the first team, new to the club, coming off a major injury. People can be awfully reactionary in those circumstances and I pretty much always want to see a meaningful sample before I pass judgement.

[London Blue]

3 minutes ago, SpartyBlue said:

Fair enough. I agree that your last point is annoying but it bothers me more in different circumstances. Like when a player is new to the first team, new to the club, coming off a major injury. People can be awfully reactionary in those circumstances and I pretty much always want to see a meaningful sample before I pass judgement.

King for example, some people writing him off before he has started a match for us.

[SpartyBlue]

3 minutes ago, London Blue said:

King for example, some people writing him off before he has started a match for us.

Yeah, precisely. Always strikes me as odd. If you changed companies at work or had months off you would expect there to be some time to acclimate. Why is it different for an athlete?

[London Blue]

1 minute ago, SpartyBlue said:

Yeah, precisely. Always strikes me as odd. If you changed companies at work or had months off you would expect there to be some time to acclimate. Why is it different for an athlete?

Fans 

[StevO]

21 hours ago, SpartyBlue said:

It’s just part of the deal at every club and to handle criticism is part of your job as a professional athlete being paid millions to play a game for a living. 

Absolutely does my head in when the wages an athlete earns is brought in to how they should handle part criticism. 
It’s not even closely relevant to how someone should be treated. 
 

it’s part of the job of being a professional athlete to accept criticism. End of the sentence. Even that’s at a push.