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Tom Davies


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8 hours ago, nogs said:

But what does the last 5 years matter? I'm talking about now and the fact that young players can't get in our side even though we're not very good!

Leicester - Chilwell, Barnes, Choudary

Chelsea - Abrahams, Mount, Tomori, Loftus-Cheek

Man Utd - Rashford, Lingard, McTominay, Tuanzebe, Greenwood, (Pogba) 

Arsenal - Maitland-Niles, Nelson, Willock, Saka have all played in the Prem this year. 

I cba looking up West Ham but when you add Liverpool, City and Spurs, that's 7 clubs. 

Anyway, my point is not to get drawn into a debate about whether our current youngsters are good enough for the Prem. IMO we are stood still as a club atm, potentially in danger of going backwards, and two key areas I think always need looking at when that happens is youth development and recruitment. For one thing, I don't think there's enough competition for places in our squad to keep certain 'senior pros' on their toes, and for that reason alone I'd like to see more youngsters coming through. 

 

I use the 5 year analogy because I am looking at the most recent young lads to come through at a time when more and more money is coming into the game. I also said week in week out regular starters over a period of years. You have Chilwell and Rashford. McTominay is on the cusp under Solksjear but he wont play when they sign more players. The rest are just like Davies and Kenny and what may or may not be Dowell next season. When you consider we had Barkley come through before that its not shabby at all. Its in line with all of those clubs you have mentioned.

Where do you also draw the line for competition for places. We signed 3 number 10's a couple of seasons back! I would agree about some lopsided recruitment and I think Brands is addressing that issue. We are stood still because the players and the managers that we have signed over the last few years haven't bee good enough and that is the bottom line.

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38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I use the 5 year analogy because I am looking at the most recent young lads to come through at a time when more and more money is coming into the game. I also said week in week out regular starters over a period of years. You have Chilwell and Rashford. McTominay is on the cusp under Solksjear but he wont play when they sign more players. The rest are just like Davies and Kenny and what may or may not be Dowell next season. When you consider we had Barkley come through before that its not shabby at all. Its in line with all of those clubs you have mentioned.

Where do you also draw the line for competition for places. We signed 3 number 10's a couple of seasons back! I would agree about some lopsided recruitment and I think Brands is addressing that issue. We are stood still because the players and the managers that we have signed over the last few years haven't bee good enough and that is the bottom line.

Barnes is playing every game for Leicester. McTominay has played loads for Man Utd over the past year plus and has been widely rated as one of their better players through a generally shit period. Mount, Abraham aren't going anywhere.

Anyway, you make my point for me. "The players we have signed have not been good enough" - so why are we sticking with them rather than blood youngsters? And using the three 10s we signed is a strange point to make coz two of them have been shipped out because they are shit and the mega bucks star should be dropped coz he is badly out of form, but we apparently don't have anyone else! 

I agree that recruitment has been a massive problem. And I go back to the point Shukes makes, for whatever reason we're not signing players with the hunger or personality to improve us. 

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The 18-20yr old players that make it into a top half premier league team are pretty rare (or in an "unsexy" position).

Take a look at where the majority of our current starters were at 18 - 20.  They were playing regularly, in lower leagues/teams.

Richarlison's are rare enough, but even he went via Fluminense and Watford.  Mount and Tomori spent 2-3 years on loan.  Sancho had to leave.

Regular, senior, competitive football is a critical part of their development.  We're holding on to kids for too long in u18s & u23s.  If we think they're potentially good enough but aren't willing to risk playing/developing them, then we need to be loaning them out.

Whether you think he's good enough or not, don't think anyone can argue that DCL hasn't improved since getting increased senior minutes.

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On 01/10/2019 at 21:37, nogs said:

Barnes is playing every game for Leicester. McTominay has played loads for Man Utd over the past year plus and has been widely rated as one of their better players through a generally shit period. Mount, Abraham aren't going anywhere.

Anyway, you make my point for me. "The players we have signed have not been good enough" - so why are we sticking with them rather than blood youngsters? And using the three 10s we signed is a strange point to make coz two of them have been shipped out because they are shit and the mega bucks star should be dropped coz he is badly out of form, but we apparently don't have anyone else! 

I agree that recruitment has been a massive problem. And I go back to the point Shukes makes, for whatever reason we're not signing players with the hunger or personality to improve us. 

Last season DCL was playing every game for us. Davies was playing every game a couple of seasons ago. Just because they are playing now it doesn't mean they are going to make a career at that club. Most youngsters come in, do well and then fade out. Look at Winks, playing roughly every other game for Spurs but their fans are turning on him now. Utd fans wouldn't want McTominay if they had a half decent player to replace him with. Rashford is probably the same. Mount and Abraham might have great careers at Chelsea but they could just as easily end up at West Ham in a couple of seasons. 

All of our young lads have had a decent amount of first team action and I don't think any of them are good enough to be high end Premiership footballers. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.clubcall.com/premier-league/everton/2019/10/21/silva-reserves-special-praise-for-evertons-davies/

The West Ham game was probably only the second game I have ever thought "yeah, there's a player in there."

I really hope that he goes on to prove me wrong about all I've said about him. I'd love nothing more than for a lad to come through the academy and be an integral player for us (and save us millions in the process).

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https://www.football365.com/news/premier-league-winners-and-losers-120

Quote

 

It has been a rotten 2019 for Davies, who before Saturday had not started a Premier League match since February 6. The issue seemed to be one of circumstance rather than failure of effort or ability. Marco Silva describes him as an excellent box-to-box midfielder, but with three attacking midfielders behind a striker, Everton’s manager has preferred two more defensive midfielders to hold the fort.

 

Saturday was evidence of why Davies could be so vital. So far this season, Everton have looked stunted in possession. Fabian Delph and Morgan Schneiderlin, with 11 league starts between them, might be effective screens for the defence but they are far less mobile and tend to both play safe, sideways passes. It’s all very well having four attacking players on the pitch, but if they have to drop so deep to pick up the ball that the opposition can easily get organised then it becomes counter-productive.

Judging Everton on one performance would be hasty, particularly given how poor West Ham played, but Silva deserves credit for the success of his plan. Richarlison, Bernard, Theo Walcott and Alex Iwobi were told to press high up the pitch to win possession, meaning that Everton stopped inviting their opponents onto them as they have at times this season. Richarlison, Bernard and Walcott made nine tackles between them. Gylfi Sigurdsson was dropped, but still made the difference coming off the bench.

Silva still needs to get the balance right. Andre Gomes and Davies were both booked and both are more progressive midfielders than holders. The loss of Idrissa Gueye and subsequent injury to Jean-Philippe Gbamin at least partly explains Everton’s poor form, and Gbamin is likely to be out until January. But there’s no doubt that Davies’ intensity gave Everton a lift, and his league start was long overdue. Would Silva consider switching to a 4-3-3 and playing three midfielders and wide forwards (Bernard and Iwobi) who had licence to drift infield and allow the full-backs to overlap?

 

 

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13 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I would love to see us play a 433 with a midfield of Gomes, Davies, and Gambin with a top 3 of Richarlison, Bernard and Iwobi.

Competition from Walcott, Kean, DCL, Siggy, Delph, Morgan.

We could really hurt allot of teams with that formation, IF we play with the same intensity and attitude as we did against West Ham.

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14 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://www.clubcall.com/premier-league/everton/2019/10/21/silva-reserves-special-praise-for-evertons-davies/

The West Ham game was probably only the second game I have ever thought "yeah, there's a player in there."

I really hope that he goes on to prove me wrong about all I've said about him. I'd love nothing more than for a lad to come through the academy and be an integral player for us (and save us millions in the process).

I’m of exactly the same view. It was a strange game in that I don’t rate either Davies or Walcott particularly but both played really well. First game of the season (& maybe Wolves) where I sit that everyone around me was positive and there was a buzz after the game outside Goodson. 
 

I’ll be furious if Marco tinkers with that team for the next match unless there’s an injury. We need consistency and to send a message to the winning first 11 that if they play well and win then they’ll keep their place in the starting lineup next time out. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

As an aside, I'm guessing one of the U23s will have to step up as cover as we're really short in midfield now. Beni seems most likely, but is he too similar to Delph/Schneiderlin? Anyone else with a bit more creativity who is ready for some game time from the bench? Evans, Charsley? 

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1 hour ago, nogs said:

As an aside, I'm guessing one of the U23s will have to step up as cover as we're really short in midfield now. Beni seems most likely, but is he too similar to Delph/Schneiderlin? Anyone else with a bit more creativity who is ready for some game time from the bench? Evans, Charsley? 

Got to be Gordon, surely?

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Just with you wanting creativity in there I was suggesting Gordon.

Didn't we release Charsley in the summer but then gave him another year and have been letting him play with the U23s so he can showcase himself or something?

I dunno the ins and outs of it but yeah he was released and re-signed. One things for sure if we get another injury in midfield before Xmas one of the kids will get a chance. 

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2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

I can't see Tom coming in to replace Gomes. Honestly I think he would be better suited to spending a season abroad, like Lookman, but hopefully not leaving.

If it were me I would be dropping Gylfi into centre mid alongside Delph/Schneids and playing Iwobi as the number 10 if we are gonna stick with 4-2-3-1. At least Gylfi will have a forward pass in him and is a hard worker 

I really don't see Sigurdsson playing a deeper role. I mean we might have to try it, but even then we'd need Davies as backup. I see him playing a lot of football for us the rest of this season. 

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3 hours ago, nogs said:

I really don't see Sigurdsson playing a deeper role. I mean we might have to try it, but even then we'd need Davies as backup. I see him playing a lot of football for us the rest of this season. 

If he keeps playing balls like the one for Walcott in the second half against Spurs you’ll be right. That was sexy. 

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