Bailey Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 On 28/10/2019 at 08:35, Btay said: Took his goal well to be honest. Snuck under the radar a bit this year but 10 games 5 goals @ a goal every 120 minutes... One of them was 90% over the line to start with, 2 against a lower league side and the one at the weekend, whilst an excellent run and good technique on his weak foot, was poor from the keeper. I think he has had less impact than last season if I am honest and I have been disappointed with him, albeit as I have been with the lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Bailey said: One of them was 90% over the line to start with, 2 against a lower league side and the one at the weekend, whilst an excellent run and good technique on his weak foot, was poor from the keeper. I think he has had less impact than last season if I am honest and I have been disappointed with him, albeit as I have been with the lot of them. If he gets 15 goals this season at the expense of him looking a bit better I'd take it. He has had the best run of goals I can remembering him having and shouldn't have been dropped for the game at Brighton. More nonsensical actions by Silva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Aidan said: If he gets 15 goals this season at the expense of him looking a bit better I'd take it. He has had the best run of goals I can remembering him having and shouldn't have been dropped for the game at Brighton. More nonsensical actions by Silva. Yeh I kind of agree but he has only scored 2 in the league. If he gets 13 more in the league I am with yer. As for being dropped, it was the West Ham game where Richarlison played well so I understand him sticking with that team for Brighton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bailey said: Yeh I kind of agree but he has only scored 2 in the league. If he gets 13 more in the league I am with yer. As for being dropped, it was the West Ham game where Richarlison played well so I understand him sticking with that team for Brighton. Don't sell him short he has 3! In 6 starts + 2 subs he's managed a goal around every 180 minutes. That's an improvement... So far! Btay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Aidan said: Don't sell him short he has 3! In 6 starts + 2 subs he's managed a goal around every 180 minutes. That's an improvement... So far! Apologies thought you said 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 London Blue and Btay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Aidan said: An improving player, give him time on the pitch and he will be very important for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Aidan said: Love that he got 2, I really want to see him finishing that first chance though. That’s a strikers bread and butter and although his goals have improved he needs to keep working on his finishing. There’s a player in there. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 On 12/12/2019 at 21:25, Aidan said: This needs to be put into some context. 1. He scored a goal that was half way over the line already. 2. He had a monster game last weekend. If you take out those points which I am sure everyone would agree are anomalies the stats change to: Shots: 2.2 Shot Conversion: 13% Aerial Duels: 6.0 xG: 0.39 (this drops to 0.28 if you only include games he started). I can't easily enough find the touches in the box but I expect it would be a similar pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Bailey said: This needs to be put into some context. 1. He scored a goal that was half way over the line already. 2. He had a monster game last weekend. If you take out those points which I am sure everyone would agree are anomalies the stats change to: Shots: 2.2 Shot Conversion: 13% Aerial Duels: 6.0 xG: 0.39 (this drops to 0.28 if you only include games he started). I can't easily enough find the touches in the box but I expect it would be a similar pattern. The only context that matters is that we played Chelsea last weekend, beat them 3-1 and DCL scored twice after having a brilliant game. The Chelsea game did actually happen, it doesn't just disappear. Just like his poor games won't that will lower any statistics over the season. Why do you have such an aversion to giving anything any credit? (Unless it's our opposition). Matt, StevO and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 I think Bailey on this occasion is just tempering people’s expectations of DCL as he did state he had a monster game last week. I always love DCLs commitment and effort but am far from convinced about him being our long term solution. I also would like to see Kean get some more playing time even if it was a consistent 20 mins at the end of game (if the game allows). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Bailey said: This needs to be put into some context. 1. He scored a goal that was half way over the line already. 2. He had a monster game last weekend. If you take out those points which I am sure everyone would agree are anomalies the stats change to: Shots: 2.2 Shot Conversion: 13% Aerial Duels: 6.0 xG: 0.39 (this drops to 0.28 if you only include games he started). I can't easily enough find the touches in the box but I expect it would be a similar pattern. Or we could support our player and not try to devalue him in any way possible. I don’t think anyone here thinks he is a world beater. But at the same time, many can see that he is simply progressing each year, getting better each year. Didn't Tosun score a goal the other week, that DCL was right in position to score? Wasn’t it the same for Richarlisons goal? So in the same respect... doesn’t that mean his stats could possibly be even better? markjazzbassist and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Can we do the same with Kean to make it fair and subjective? If we did, we would be saying Kean is an absolute flop. Tosun isn’t fit to be in the English northern premier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnderToff Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 If DCL had any sort of natural finishing ability, he'd easily be a top 5 forward. However, if he had any natural finishing ability, then he likely wouldn't have the off ball talent/work ethic he has (and still be playing for Everton). We can only hope that he keeps developing the goal scoring ability and becomes the Gem we need, since his trajectory has undeniably been up. Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 44 minutes ago, Shukes said: Can we do the same with Kean to make it fair and subjective? If we did, we would be saying Kean is an absolute flop. Tosun isn’t fit to be in the English northern premier. I’d rather support them all! Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, barryj said: I’d rather support them all! Exactly mate. Let them grow and improve with us. Every player doesn’t have to be world class by the time they are 25. If they can steadily improve and hit a few extra goals each year, then great. We don’t have to buy success, we can grow talent and nurture them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Shukes said: Exactly mate. Let them grow and improve with us. Every player doesn’t have to be world class by the time they are 25. If they can steadily improve and hit a few extra goals each year, then great. We don’t have to buy success, we can grow talent and nurture them. When he said all, I think that includes those over 25 as well, but you are right players generally thrive if they are supported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, Palfy said: When he said all, I think that includes those over 25 as well, but you are right players generally thrive if they are supported. It’s true mate. The moment Kean puts one away the stadium is going to erupt. When that happens, that lad will take off. Once you hear that Goodison roar, your home for life. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, Shukes said: It’s true mate. The moment Kean puts one away the stadium is going to erupt. When that happens, that lad will take off. Once you hear that Goodison roar, your home for life. I’m really looking forward to him scoring as I’ve just got a real gut feeling hes going to be immense and he just needs that first goal to feel like he’s part of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 55 minutes ago, barryj said: I’m really looking forward to him scoring as I’ve just got a real gut feeling hes going to be immense and he just needs that first goal to feel like he’s part of the club. I was so willing that shot against the shite to go in. Would have made it 3-4 and he would have been on fire. Its coming. Won’t be long before he’s off the mark. barryj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 12 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: The only context that matters is that we played Chelsea last weekend, beat them 3-1 and DCL scored twice after having a brilliant game. The Chelsea game did actually happen, it doesn't just disappear. Just like his poor games won't that will lower any statistics over the season. Why do you have such an aversion to giving anything any credit? (Unless it's our opposition). The stats were comparing the past two seasons to what has happened this season. I am just giving a bit more context to those stats because without context they mean little especially when you are comparing less than half a season against 2 full seasons. At the end of the season those ups and downs will even themselves out, but at the moment they will skew the picture. I also don't know why you don't think I have given him credit seeing as I said he played really well last week both in the thread and inside the very post you quoted. 11 hours ago, Shukes said: Or we could support our player and not try to devalue him in any way possible. I don’t think anyone here thinks he is a world beater. But at the same time, many can see that he is simply progressing each year, getting better each year. Didn't Tosun score a goal the other week, that DCL was right in position to score? Wasn’t it the same for Richarlisons goal? So in the same respect... doesn’t that mean his stats could possibly be even better? I'm not devaluing him and I am just trying to bring more context to the stats given especially given that they cover different periods of time as I mentioned above. Personally I haven't seen a lot of improvement but as last weekend showed, we haven't exactly been playing to his strengths as much as we could, so hopefully we will continue to see him grow. barryj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 So you can admit that if Tosun and Richarlison hasn’t taken those chances in front of him he may have two more goals, and his stats may well be even better. The stats are skewed due to those two incidents, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Shukes said: So you can admit that if Tosun and Richarlison hasn’t taken those chances in front of him he may have two more goals, and his stats may well be even better. The stats are skewed due to those two incidents, I agree. Come on Shukes you can say that about anything. You don't know what would have happened. You can guess but you don't know for sure. It's like saying if the defender hadn't been in the way then it would have been an assist or if the keeper hadn't saved it then it would have been a goal. I didn't post the original post about the stats, I just provided reasons as to why they will be skewed at this stage of the season. At the end of the season, we will have a much clearer picture to compare him on. Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Bailey said: Come on Shukes you can say that about anything. You don't know what would have happened. You can guess but you don't know for sure. It's like saying if the defender hadn't been in the way then it would have been an assist or if the keeper hadn't saved it then it would have been a goal. I didn't post the original post about the stats, I just provided reasons as to why they will be skewed at this stage of the season. At the end of the season, we will have a much clearer picture to compare him on. Exactly you can’t have to suit your agenda that which never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 https://www.evertonfc.com/news/1530970/feguson-outlines-calvert-lewin-potential 7 goals in 11 starts this season. He’ll only get more with more game time the team performing better Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 Are we back to the cherry picking and selective use of stats to support an opinion of a player? For me our club has had identity problems going back a few years now. Anyone who hasn't watched "howards way" needs to.... our club wins trophies when we have 11 passionate players pulling together and no passengers. We were the best team I've seen us be in 1985 with Sharp and Gray - 2 traditional number 9s. Then we bought lineker - a pure goalscorer and we failed (maybe losing Big Nev was the reason but we had all our eggs in the lineker basket). We tried with Coffee, another finisher but ultimately self centred player and won nothing.... then in 1995 we won the FA cup with rideout and big Dunc. Since then we operated in the bargain basement but looked more of a team with a Marcus Bent type striker. We had a goalscorer in Lukaku but ultimately that's all he was. We are where we are now... we have DCL, Tosun, Niasse, and Kean..... DCL is by far the best athlete and looks a perfect strike partner for a finisher. Let's see how he does, the Chelsea game was a great performance to build from. Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Bailey said: Come on Shukes you can say that about anything. You don't know what would have happened. You can guess but you don't know for sure. It's like saying if the defender hadn't been in the way then it would have been an assist or if the keeper hadn't saved it then it would have been a goal. I didn't post the original post about the stats, I just provided reasons as to why they will be skewed at this stage of the season. At the end of the season, we will have a much clearer picture to compare him on. I know mate, I’m just fishing haha Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Palfy said: Exactly you can’t have to suit your agenda that which never happened. I agree to an extent, but last week was not skewed at all, DCL did that all on his own. It wasn’t luck, or the ball hitting him and going in, it was all down to him. So what I’m saying is it’s not fair to skew facts to suit your agenda. DCL scores two last week and deserved them. DCL scores a goal that was virtually over the line, but it was still his. ( remember Lukaku cough ). If a striker doesn’t go for that and it bounces on the line and spins out, we crucify him. Its a game of fine margins and you have to be subjective, or you will get people like me calling you out on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Shukes said: I know mate, I’m just fishing haha Consider me reeled in! Shukes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 15, 2019 Report Share Posted December 15, 2019 Just now, Bailey said: Consider me reeled in! Haha hard to get you to vote too. Now Palfy on the other hand, just sees an empty net and jumps in! Wheres Paddock when you need him. He used to bite like a shark! Palfy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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