Carlo Ancelotti

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

 Really Steve? How Do you explain that in 2009 prior to his November "crashing car to escape wife hitting him with golf club" that he won  6 tournaments???   Winning the BMW at wentworth 2 months before his affairs came out.  He already won a major with a bust up knee in 2008... hobbled his way around. His swing speed had dropped 5-6 mph (30 yards) from his 2004 peak.   His swing speed in 2009 when winning tournaments was the same in 2012 when not winning tournaments.... explain the difference in winning vs not winning? The core is the engine for the swing...the back is key to that. 

Woods as many in the game said had an air of untouchability and royalty that he utilised to full effect to mentally beat his opponents. They lost before the final round started.... he could break an opponent with his aloofness and arrogance alone.  He had few friends on tour and he didn't need them.... Lehman and Stricker and that's about it.

He had to start being nice, win fans back, players back etc.  They are happy he's back because he lines and has lined their pockets..... but he lost that edge in relinquishing his mental advantage. 

So yeah.... mentality is everything. 

 

He obviously took his eye off the ball when his personal life went falling apart, that’s not down to mental weakness. Thats down to having a lot of shit going on in your life and doing what comes most natural becomes difficult. Nothing to do with his mentality. Circumstances affect behaviour and affect performance. 
If anyone goes through shit in their personal life It’s absolutely normal to have if affect their performance in their job, regardless of profession. I’ve been there, nothing to do with mentality. Everything to do with distraction and emotions that can’t be taken out of your head. 
After he got his life and his body back in order he began competing at the top again. 
You ask Molinari about Tiger’s mental strength on that Sunday afternoon.
His mentality isn’t even in question. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

 Really Steve? How Do you explain that in 2009 prior to his November "crashing car to escape wife hitting him with golf club" that he won  6 tournaments???   Winning the BMW at wentworth 2 months before his affairs came out.  He already won a major with a bust up knee in 2008... hobbled his way around. His swing speed had dropped 5-6 mph (30 yards) from his 2004 peak.   His swing speed in 2009 when winning tournaments was the same in 2012 when not winning tournaments.... explain the difference in winning vs not winning? The core is the engine for the swing...the back is key to that. 

Woods as many in the game said had an air of untouchability and royalty that he utilised to full effect to mentally beat his opponents. They lost before the final round started.... he could break an opponent with his aloofness and arrogance alone.  He had few friends on tour and he didn't need them.... Lehman and Stricker and that's about it.

He had to start being nice, win fans back, players back etc.  They are happy he's back because he lines and has lined their pockets..... but he lost that edge in relinquishing his mental advantage. 

So yeah.... mentality is everything. 

 

He lost that mental advantage because a lot of young lads forgot what it was like to play with Tiger Woods in the field. They made hay when he was out and then when he came back and his game wasn't as good (expectedly given his problems) then its no surprise he didn't have the same affect on the field. 

You also seem to suggest that the others in the field were mentally weak. These are guys that have won multiple tournaments, they arent mentally weak players, nor particularly weaker than Tiger but not only was he a better golfer but he was also the player that took fitness to a new level. While Ernie Els was getting in shots in the clubhouse after a round and Jon Daly was doing God knows what, Tiger was working hard and getting the right nutrition. Tiger is the equivalent of Arsene Wenger for changing the way the game is played. Now every player spends as much time in the gym as they do on the range, they have nutritionalists and psychologists. They get new equipment whenever they want and anyone can win on any given week because they all have that ability.

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

 Really Steve? How Do you explain that in 2009 prior to his November "crashing car to escape wife hitting him with golf club" that he won  6 tournaments???   Winning the BMW at wentworth 2 months before his affairs came out.  He already won a major with a bust up knee in 2008... hobbled his way around. His swing speed had dropped 5-6 mph (30 yards) from his 2004 peak.   His swing speed in 2009 when winning tournaments was the same in 2012 when not winning tournaments.... explain the difference in winning vs not winning? The core is the engine for the swing...the back is key to that. 

Woods as many in the game said had an air of untouchability and royalty that he utilised to full effect to mentally beat his opponents. They lost before the final round started.... he could break an opponent with his aloofness and arrogance alone.  He had few friends on tour and he didn't need them.... Lehman and Stricker and that's about it.

He had to start being nice, win fans back, players back etc.  They are happy he's back because he lines and has lined their pockets..... but he lost that edge in relinquishing his mental advantage. 

So yeah.... mentality is everything. 

 

You need both to be a champion, belief without ability is gonna get you no where and vice versa, but bring the two together to there optimum and you become invincible, in short you become a Tiger Woods, and as we have seen with Woods put a chink in either and the invincibility goes. 

[Hafnia]

5 hours ago, StevO said:

He obviously took his eye off the ball when his personal life went falling apart, that’s not down to mental weakness. Thats down to having a lot of shit going on in your life and doing what comes most natural becomes difficult. Nothing to do with his mentality. Circumstances affect behaviour and affect performance. 
If anyone goes through shit in their personal life It’s absolutely normal to have if affect their performance in their job, regardless of profession. I’ve been there, nothing to do with mentality. Everything to do with distraction and emotions that can’t be taken out of your head. 
After he got his life and his body back in order he began competing at the top again. 
You ask Molinari about Tiger’s mental strength on that Sunday afternoon.
His mentality isn’t even in question. 

In the first post you said tiger woods game suffered physically not mentally.

Then went on to say that when people go through shit in their lives doing what come natural becomes difficult...  which is mentality.

As for "going thfough shit in their lives" lets cut to the chase,  I admire woods as a golfer - the very fact that he had unprotected sex with porn stars and waitresses etc etc and had unprotected sex with the mother of his children paints the picture of an absolute piece of shit with very little moral fibre.  His wife had aids tests after finding out about the affairs....  so yeah the fella clearly does have the ability to shut shit out of his mind till the fellow professionals he used to look down his nose at stopped kissing his arse and let him know where he stood.

Only his acceptance back into the fold by golfers who knew the game needed him  gave him the winning mindset again. 

 

[Hafnia]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

He lost that mental advantage because a lot of young lads forgot what it was like to play with Tiger Woods in the field. They made hay when he was out and then when he came back and his game wasn't as good (expectedly given his problems) then its no surprise he didn't have the same affect on the field. 

You also seem to suggest that the others in the field were mentally weak. These are guys that have won multiple tournaments, they arent mentally weak players, nor particularly weaker than Tiger but not only was he a better golfer but he was also the player that took fitness to a new level. While Ernie Els was getting in shots in the clubhouse after a round and Jon Daly was doing God knows what, Tiger was working hard and getting the right nutrition. Tiger is the equivalent of Arsene Wenger for changing the way the game is played. Now every player spends as much time in the gym as they do on the range, they have nutritionalists and psychologists. They get new equipment whenever they want and anyone can win on any given week because they all have that ability.

Tour golfers are not mentally weak.... nowhere did I suggest they are mentally weak.   Tell me a mentally weak golfer? I'd argue all day that they can't be mentally weak to be on tour.  

Some are more mentally strong than others - thats a fact. If Rory had Poulters mentality he would be a 10 time major wimner already.  If poulter had rorys mentality he would be fighting for tour cards and dipping in about of the tour school.  There are thousands upon thousands of scratch golfers, I've played with lads good enough to play on tour - they just can't handle the pressure. 

Tiger had the talent, the work ethic and the arrogance and ability to outpsyche his opponents. His mum and dad drilled him to destroy his opponents.... he lost his cloak when his dirty dick episodes got outed.   

 

 

[Hafnia]

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

You need both to be a champion, belief without ability is gonna get you no where and vice versa, but bring the two together to there optimum and you become invincible, in short you become a Tiger Woods, and as we have seen with Woods put a chink in either and the invincibility goes. 

Exactly.  All the talent in the world counts for Jack shit if the confidence and aura has gone.  

[Bailey]

On 13/07/2020 at 02:19, markjazzbassist said:

they lost to a limp dicked spurs today.  not sure that's getting anything out of them but hey different strokes (pun intended)

How do you feel about this now?

It happens to us all! 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Tour golfers are not mentally weak.... nowhere did I suggest they are mentally weak.   Tell me a mentally weak golfer? I'd argue all day that they can't be mentally weak to be on tour.  

Some are more mentally strong than others - thats a fact. If Rory had Poulters mentality he would be a 10 time major wimner already.  If poulter had rorys mentality he would be fighting for tour cards and dipping in about of the tour school.  There are thousands upon thousands of scratch golfers, I've played with lads good enough to play on tour - they just can't handle the pressure. 

Tiger had the talent, the work ethic and the arrogance and ability to outpsyche his opponents. His mum and dad drilled him to destroy his opponents.... he lost his cloak when his dirty dick episodes got outed.   

 

 

The point I was making that if Tiger's edge was that he was so mentally strong, that would mean the others are less so. I dont disagree that some have more than others but Tiger couldn't have been that much better between the ears and that is why he was so dominant. 

He still has the same game between the ears but he just doesn't have the control over his game and his body anymore. Do you know how many swing changes he has had to make due to his injuries?

Fwiw I'm not sure I agree about McIlroy and Poulter either. McIlroy's game has always been streaky. When all the ducks align he can beat anyone and I have seen him fight with his swing and grind out results without winning. You only have to look at someone like Speith. Always had swing problems but he had a spell of solid golf and a demon putter but he has fallen off the face of the earth now. He is still grinding but his game isn't there. 

[markjazzbassist]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

How do you feel about this now?

It happens to us all! 

One game in a single elimination tournament doesn’t make it for me.  If they lose the final he will get even more pressure.  Everyone thinks arteta is gonna be something else because he was a nice player and is best mates with pep and learned under him, but I just don’t rate him as a manager.  I don’t think those things make you a great manager and arsenal are an utter mess right now.  We are too!

[Hafnia]

11 hours ago, Bailey said:

The point I was making that if Tiger's edge was that he was so mentally strong, that would mean the others are less so. I dont disagree that some have more than others but Tiger couldn't have been that much better between the ears and that is why he was so dominant. 

He still has the same game between the ears but he just doesn't have the control over his game and his body anymore. Do you know how many swing changes he has had to make due to his injuries?

Fwiw I'm not sure I agree about McIlroy and Poulter either. McIlroy's game has always been streaky. When all the ducks align he can beat anyone and I have seen him fight with his swing and grind out results without winning. You only have to look at someone like Speith. Always had swing problems but he had a spell of solid golf and a demon putter but he has fallen off the face of the earth now. He is still grinding but his game isn't there. 

"Streaky" golf is massively more often mind than physicality.  Process process process..... I take lessons of a European tour caddy  - when molinari put his approach to 6ft  to win the open I asked him how did he do it.  "Clear mind" - they hit thousands of balls to specific numbers every week, they know the club, the required flight.  Repetition of process  and a clear mind with no distraction other than "this is going stone dead"....

Bad shots do happen, when they do happen the likelihood the next bad shot comes immediately after - look at scorecards,  birdies more often appear in batches.

When Rory and Speith fell apart in the masters - they just made 2 bad swings.  The impact of the bad swings was their composure went... they lost trust in process. 

Read Bob Rotellas book, golf is not a game of perfect......  the best golfers in the world had the strongest minds. Tom Watson when playing bad refused to believe that his next shot wasnt going to be anything other than perfect. He trusted the percentages and knew if he thought a bad shot would happen.... it more than likely would.

Why is it you can tell when a player looks like he's gonna miss a penalty? It's not their legs.... it's the face.... a look like they have been sent to the headmaster office.

Back on topic.... once belief, confidence, arrogance, swagger isn't aligned..... and the swagger is trying too hard to cover up and mind which is saying "shit! Get me out of here, let me get home without making mistake"..... you're done. 

[Bailey]

13 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

One game in a single elimination tournament doesn’t make it for me.  If they lose the final he will get even more pressure.  Everyone thinks arteta is gonna be something else because he was a nice player and is best mates with pep and learned under him, but I just don’t rate him as a manager.  I don’t think those things make you a great manager and arsenal are an utter mess right now.  We are too!

They did beat Liverpool in the week as well dont forget. Two pretty impressive victories by even the harshest critics. 

I think its very early to write him off as a manager especially when he has improved their defence by bucket loads. The difference between before and now is massive. They are actually organised for one. Time will tell how that develops. 

[markjazzbassist]

33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

They did beat Liverpool in the week as well dont forget. Two pretty impressive victories by even the harshest critics. 

I think its very early to write him off as a manager especially when he has improved their defence by bucket loads. The difference between before and now is massive. They are actually organised for one. Time will tell how that develops. 

Yes a hungover Liverpool what a victory with nothing to play for.  

[Shukes]

Just now, markjazzbassist said:

Yes a hungover Liverpool what a victory with nothing to play for.  

Liverpool are a team of winners mate, trust me, every defeat hurts them. 
No professional footballer goes over that white line t crying about winning. If they do, they shouldn’t be playing anything above third tier.

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Yes a hungover Liverpool what a victory with nothing to play for.  

Did you watch the game? If you did you would see from the players and the manager that they weren't throwing the towel in. In fact it was one of Mane's best performances that I have seen for a while.

Apparently Arsenal have run further than 5 of the last 6 teams they have faced... yes Arsenal...with the one winter signing injured and only a right back on loan. 

No-one is going to claim they are going to win the league next year or anything like that but the defensive improvement is huge from the same hapless players that started the season.

[Palfy]

16 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Did you watch the game? If you did you would see from the players and the manager that they weren't throwing the towel in. In fact it was one of Mane's best performances that I have seen for a while.

Apparently Arsenal have run further than 5 of the last 6 teams they have faced... yes Arsenal...with the one winter signing injured and only a right back on loan. 

No-one is going to claim they are going to win the league next year or anything like that but the defensive improvement is huge from the same hapless players that started the season.

When a new manager goes to a team usually it’s because they are playing poorly, so the first thing any manager should do is sort the defence out to stop the poor run of results, this is what we are seeing with Arteta and Ancelotti, we also saw it with Allardyce, but we didn’t like the man so didn’t accept what he was doing. 
What benefits Arteta more than Ancelotti is he also has MF that can play and a more clinical finisher upfront. 

[StevO]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

When a new manager goes to a team usually it’s because they are playing poorly, so the first thing any manager should do is sort the defence out to stop the poor run of results, this is what we are seeing with Arteta and Ancelotti, we also saw it with Allardyce, but we didn’t like the man so didn’t accept what he was doing. 
What benefits Arteta more than Ancelotti is he also has MF that can play and a more clinical finisher upfront. 

I don’t think anyone had an issue with Allardyce sorting out the defence. Just with that pretty much being where the improvement started and finished. 

[markjazzbassist]

25 minutes ago, StevO said:

I don’t think anyone had an issue with Allardyce sorting out the defence. Just with that pretty much being where the improvement started and finished. 

Yep, that and his glee at getting a draw was a little much.  1 point can be a good result, but you’d think he thought you get 5 points for a draw or something, the man loved em.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

I don’t think anyone had an issue with Allardyce sorting out the defence. Just with that pretty much being where the improvement started and finished. 

As soon as it was announced that he was coming here the knifes were out, because of his reputation no credit was given to him whether deserved or not, he was a hated figure from beginning to end. Now I’m not trying to defend the man as a person I disliked him as much as most, but as for doing his job he was successful at turning us around. 
When I look at us now with the inclusion of Richarlison Digne Gomes Mina Bernard and Iwobi, I don’t see that much more improvement what I see is a team trying to be very tight at the back and trying to win 1-0, but with the focus being not to concede, which was pretty much what I saw with Allardyce with the only real difference being the personnel, and the fact he was very much hated from a fan’s point of view. 
But please don’t tell me he was disliked purely because of his style of football, I’m not a idiot who hasn’t got a clue whether you or others may think that is the case, so please don’t treat me like one, what we are seeing now isn’t a million miles away from what we were getting with Allardyce, and if I’m gonna be brutally honest we are less consistent judging by the last 3-4 games. 
So I stand by my first comment which you responded to. 

[Shukes]

Did he turn us around though Palfy? Results pretty much stayed the same, football was the worst I had seen for decades (until now) 

I honestly thought we looked much better when Dunc was in charge.

[Palfy]

40 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Did he turn us around though Palfy? Results pretty much stayed the same, football was the worst I had seen for decades (until now) 

I honestly thought we looked much better when Dunc was in charge.

He did what he had to do which was to stop us conceding, let’s not forget he wasn’t furnished with the players we have now no Digne no Baines who was a long term injury hardly any Coleman, his full backs were predominantly Kenny and Martina, to achieve what he did with that was good going in my book, but like I say he was hated no matter what the results or performances showed. 
He wasn’t a Evertonian person I get that 100% but the reality is, even if he had won the league he would have been disliked, because we didn’t like his brand of football but more importantly we didn’t like him in end of. So for Ste to say what he said is rubbish because he was hated from the first game till the last and nothing in between.

Yes Fergie rekindled the fighting spirit that your playing for the shirt, which is what I hope every blue wants to see the passion the will to win, unfortunately that’s gone again and we are seeing an Allardyce brand of football not played as well, but Ancelotti won’t get the same stick for it because of who he is, and Ste believes it’s nothing to do with personalities just football styles or progression, yeah right that’s bollocks that is case proven that Allardyce was hated for being Allardyce or Ancelotti would be getting the same treatment, because you’re right lately is the worst I’ve seen us play for decades, we are toothless. 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

As soon as it was announced that he was coming here the knifes were out, because of his reputation no credit was given to him whether deserved or not, he was a hated figure from beginning to end. Now I’m not trying to defend the man as a person I disliked him as much as most, but as for doing his job he was successful at turning us around. 
When I look at us now with the inclusion of Richarlison Digne Gomes Mina Bernard and Iwobi, I don’t see that much more improvement what I see is a team trying to be very tight at the back and trying to win 1-0, but with the focus being not to concede, which was pretty much what I saw with Allardyce with the only real difference being the personnel, and the fact he was very much hated from a fan’s point of view. 
But please don’t tell me he was disliked purely because of his style of football, I’m not a idiot who hasn’t got a clue whether you or others may think that is the case, so please don’t treat me like one, what we are seeing now isn’t a million miles away from what we were getting with Allardyce, and if I’m gonna be brutally honest we are less consistent judging by the last 3-4 games. 
So I stand by my first comment which you responded to. 

Was it three games we went without a shot on target? That’s enough for me. He didn’t turn us around, he stopped the rot granted, but that’s about it. 

Of course the knives were out before he even started. This is a man who was outed as corrupt, personally I didn’t like that sting, but can’t be denied what he said was anything other than corruption. 
He shouldn’t have been here in the first place. I’m embarrassed he was ever our manager, and I still am. 
 

The last few games we have been very poor. But pre lockdown we played some very good football under Carlo and the results were much better. There is hope under Carlo, there wasn’t under Sam. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

He did what he had to do which was to stop us conceding, let’s not forget he wasn’t furnished with the players we have now no Digne no Baines who was a long term injury hardly any Coleman, his full backs were predominantly Kenny and Martina, to achieve what he did with that was good going in my book, but like I say he was hated no matter what the results or performances showed. 
He wasn’t a Evertonian person I get that 100% but the reality is, even if he had won the league he would have been disliked, because we didn’t like his brand of football but more importantly we didn’t like him in end of. So for Ste to say what he said is rubbish because he was hated from the first game till the last and nothing in between.

Yes Fergie rekindled the fighting spirit that your playing for the shirt, which is what I hope every blue wants to see the passion the will to win, unfortunately that’s gone again and we are seeing an Allardyce brand of football not played as well, but Ancelotti won’t get the same stick for it because of who he is, and Ste believes it’s nothing to do with personalities just football styles or progression, yeah right that’s bollocks that is case proven that Allardyce was hated for being Allardyce or Ancelotti would be getting the same treatment, because you’re right lately is the worst I’ve seen us play for decades, we are toothless. 

Im initial reply wasn’t a be all and end all of my thoughts on Allardyce, it was a comment about his football based on your post talking about sorting out the defence. 

 

14 hours ago, Palfy said:

When a new manager goes to a team usually it’s because they are playing poorly, so the first thing any manager should do is sort the defence out to stop the poor run of results, this is what we are seeing with Arteta and Ancelotti, we also saw it with Allardyce, but we didn’t like the man so didn’t accept what he was doing. 
What benefits Arteta more than Ancelotti is he also has MF that can play and a more clinical finisher upfront. 

You said it’s usually the first thing a manager does. I said it was the first and last thing it does. 
 

Don’t assume one comment is a complete and exhaustive opinion on a subject. 
 

If I wanted to get into a debate about all of my thoughts about Allardyce then I would have responded as such. Instead I responded about the only comment you made about him. 

[Bailey]

18 hours ago, Palfy said:

When a new manager goes to a team usually it’s because they are playing poorly, so the first thing any manager should do is sort the defence out to stop the poor run of results, this is what we are seeing with Arteta and Ancelotti, we also saw it with Allardyce, but we didn’t like the man so didn’t accept what he was doing. 
What benefits Arteta more than Ancelotti is he also has MF that can play and a more clinical finisher upfront. 

I agree but if you look at that Arsenal squad there isn't a good defender in there. I'd say there is barely a player that even wants to defend (bar Torreira). They were the laziest and most inconsistent team in the league. If a team got physical they either gave up or got sent off (Xhaka).

I agree that Arteta has more midfield options, mainly Ceballos, but Xhaka and Torreira are nothing to write home about, Guendouzi doesnt play as he hasn't bought into the ethic required and then you are looking at kids like Saka, Willock and Maitland-Niles who are also very average. Up front they played a lad that couldn't get a game for Leeds. The one thing they do have over us is energy but if we brought in more kids, I am sure we would too.

What benefits Ancelotti over Arteta is many years of experience, a largely stable back 4 and that he inherited a team with a bit of momentum and belief.

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Im initial reply wasn’t a be all and end all of my thoughts on Allardyce, it was a comment about his football based on your post talking about sorting out the defence. 

 

You said it’s usually the first thing a manager does. I said it was the first and last thing it does. 
 

Don’t assume one comment is a complete and exhaustive opinion on a subject. 
 

If I wanted to get into a debate about all of my thoughts about Allardyce then I would have responded as such. Instead I responded about the only comment you made about him. 

Yes and like I said I standby that he did exactly what Ancelotti has and is doing but got slaughtered for who he was and not solely his football, I’m not interested in your view of him as a person but as a manager, if you think what he did for us was shit then why not what Ancelotti is doing with better players, the reason being his name isn’t Allardyce. 
You will never convince me that Allardyce was disliked just because of his style of football which is what you’re first answer inferred. 

 

4 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I agree but if you look at that Arsenal squad there isn't a good defender in there. I'd say there is barely a player that even wants to defend (bar Torreira). They were the laziest and most inconsistent team in the league. If a team got physical they either gave up or got sent off (Xhaka).

I agree that Arteta has more midfield options, mainly Ceballos, but Xhaka and Torreira are nothing to write home about, Guendouzi doesnt play as he hasn't bought into the ethic required and then you are looking at kids like Saka, Willock and Maitland-Niles who are also very average. Up front they played a lad that couldn't get a game for Leeds. The one thing they do have over us is energy but if we brought in more kids, I am sure we would too.

What benefits Ancelotti over Arteta is many years of experience, a largely stable back 4 and that he inherited a team with a bit of momentum and belief.

I agree with all that, but the team that Fergie handed over to him which he installed the momentum and belief in as now slipped back to what we were seeing with Koeman and Silva, but what grates me is that when you say Allardyce did well doing the same thing as Arteta and Ancelotti are doing it’s frowned upon or there’s a because of something else, his performances were even Ancelotti’s are up and down like a whores knickers not a murmur bar Shukes who over a week ago expressed his concerns, but when it was Allardyce every man and his fucking dog was complaining even if won drew or lost. 

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Was it three games we went without a shot on target? That’s enough for me. He didn’t turn us around, he stopped the rot granted, but that’s about it. 

Of course the knives were out before he even started. This is a man who was outed as corrupt, personally I didn’t like that sting, but can’t be denied what he said was anything other than corruption. 
He shouldn’t have been here in the first place. I’m embarrassed he was ever our manager, and I still am. 
 

The last few games we have been very poor. But pre lockdown we played some very good football under Carlo and the results were much better. There is hope under Carlo, there wasn’t under Sam. 

He had DCL upfront who in them days when he shot the corner flag stood more chances of being hit than goal, but the attempts don’t show much difference, but again it’s Allardyce against Ancelotti at the moment you would struggle to get a fag paper between them, Allardyce didn’t lose the support because once he steadied the ship we couldn’t see an improvement, Allardyce never ever had the support and that’s difference like I said he was never liked and was never going to be liked even though there isn’t a lot of differences between our performances then and now. 

[StevO]

I think my points have been made very clear. If you don’t understand what I’ve said in the last few points (like me not saying football was the only reason for people not liking him) then I’m not going to keep repeating it. It’s bad enough he was our manager, to have to talk about why that was a disgrace again is upsetting enough for plenty of blues. 
 

Im very happy Carlo is our manager. He has given me hope again. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

 

I agree with all that, but the team that Fergie handed over to him which he installed the momentum and belief in as now slipped back to what we were seeing with Koeman and Silva, but what grates me is that when you say Allardyce did well doing the same thing as Arteta and Ancelotti are doing it’s frowned upon or there’s a because of something else, his performances were even Ancelotti’s are up and down like a whores knickers not a murmur bar Shukes who over a week ago expressed his concerns, but when it was Allardyce every man and his fucking dog was complaining even if won drew or lost. 

Ahem I think you will find I too made similar comments and for the record I made the comparison after the Liverpool game. You lot are copying me

The difference between Allardyce and the rest, which isn't always the case with us this is the ability to sustain attacks whether counters or pressure. Allardyce couldn't, it was long balls and set pieces. We have been a bit like that this year. Arteta is getting Arsenal to play out of the back, play through midfield and counter. Again it remains to be seen as to how it goes in the long term. 

[Shukes]

To be honest I think 90% of people here have been criticising the way we are playing, Carlo is even getting questioned by a few in his own thread.

The BIG difference is, Carlo has earned the right for time and patience, whereas Sam EARNT the reputation for shite football long before he came here.

[Matt]

Reading that slobs name mentioned in the same sentence as Carlo (and still with Everton) is absolutely truly fucking embarrassing. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

To be honest I think 90% of people here have been criticising the way we are playing, Carlo is even getting questioned by a few in his own thread.

The BIG difference is, Carlo has earned the right for time and patience, whereas Sam EARNT the reputation for shite football long before he came here.

Absolutely!